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«Oldest ‹Older 1601 – 1800 of 12462 Newer› Newest»I wish they would hurry up and do that. Kind of tired of watching over for pedophiles
Cataclysmic is more like it, Dr. Dr. :-)
Well, I see that this place is becoming very much like a chatroom, full of trolls and flooders. Amazing how that happened here.
Teresa,,,I believe you are the one that "made your bed here" when you called someone here a pedophile and met up with very strong opposition for it. And people had to question your credibility, and lost respect for any future comments from you. Your people here, can in no way, affect my life. I already have nothing. How can they possibly hurt me?
No.
some people call me 'the crime doctor'.
it's amazing just how many people are still DREADFUL AT CRIME, in the age of 'the csi effect'.
In my spare time i like to watch the jeremy kyle show.
Denise: I'll stand by that I called a pedophile a pedophile. I made no bed that I am stuck with arguing with a complete moron. Your arguments go on def ears. Please, can't give someone the death penalty because maybe an investigator screwed up and you couldn't trust the eye witness.
You want to waste your time arguing that type of bullshit. Your bed, not mine. I notice you didn't take the time to thank Dr. Webb for finding Nilax either.
Doesn't take much to twist minds by pedophiles anymore.
Boogie.... Now I am begging. Honest, I am done
no need to apologize here... was certainly deserved.
I need to catch up here.
Teresa said...
I wish they would hurry up and do that. Kind of tired of watching over for pedophiles
Honestly, what is keeping you here?
Is Jeremy Kyle in the UK?
"Please, can't give someone the death penalty because maybe an investigator screwed up and you couldn't trust the eye witness."
Teresa, my dear, I thought you weren't reading my comments. I guess one of your sock puppets is doing it. :-)
Yes, how preposterous of me to suggest that an investigator might have "screwed up" accidentally or on purpose or that an eyewitness might have lied or made a mistake. After all, these things NEVER happen in real life. They're all just Nagarjuna's 'completely moronic' fantasies. :-)
What a piece of work you are. :-)
Yes, the UK.
I am not stuck here either, Teresa. I come here of free will, and I am not arguing as you say. I am having an open minded discussion. Each time a person disagrees with me here, will show me what I might have to face when I do start on the mission that you and I have spoken about in the previous days. There are many people who will not agree with me.
I feel blessed that I found the comment section of this blog, and that I had the opportunity to speak with persons such as yourself, and goblinbee, and Nagarjuna, and Tara. And also Brendastar. I did not speak with Brenda, but I did learn from her comments.
A twisted piece at that. :-)
Dr. Webb, it's a holiday here. That is why they are not at work and are out to play who has the biggest brain and can solve this in this manner
Nagarjuna, I completely understand your argument about the possibility of mistakes being made, etc.
But this cannot be the case with Jaycee and Garrido. There are no excuses here. But you found one, by saying he is "ill".
Are you by some chance, a defense attorney? I will never understand defense attorneys.
Nagarjuna, you can call me all the names you want. I am not punished by it. In fact, sometimes it makes me laugh because it shows you for what you are.
Boogie, going back to my movie.... let me know if you need anything.
Goodbye Dr. Webb, and thank you for all the help and info.
Denise, I think your experience here will help you to understand different perspectives better and to deal more effectively with those who espouse them. I am impressed with how you've managed to maintain your integrity and decency in the face of so much provocation and discord. That bodes well for you.
thank you Denise I learned from yours too.
"Are you by some chance, a defense attorney? I will never understand defense attorneys."
I'm just an avocational philosopher who tries, and fails more often than not, to live up to his values and principles.
I agree with you that if I were on the jury trying Garrido, I could find him certain "beyond a shadow of a doubt." But could I also vote for the death penalty? At this point, I honestly don't know.
Teresa, I did read that you are away at the moment. You can respond to this at any time, or not at all if you do not care to, for that matter. But I wanted to ask about Nilax and Dr. Webb. If in fact he did find Nilax. What was the outcome? And I do not see where my thanks are in order here, or where me saying thanks would even matter. I did not even know that Nilax was missing, actually.
I'm not trying to "punish" you, Teresa. I finally just came to the realization that if your defamations were to actually cause me harm, I can sue your ass off and win with the mountain of proof I have of your libelous accusations. And, if they don't cause me harm, I might as well just relax and enjoy your foolishness and the way you've exposed your true nature to all who have eyes to see. Either way, I can have a good time here instead of letting any of it get to me.
Now that you've said your piece, I'm wating for one of your sock puppets to chime in with more nonsense. :-)
Denise, I think your experience here will help you to understand different perspectives better and to deal more effectively with those who espouse them.
Thank you Nagarjuna, I agree with you. (on that point, lol) Which is the reason I am here.
You are quite welcome, BrendaStar, and thank you.
What the hecks is a SOCK PUPPET anyhow. lol Dont answer. I have figured it out. But what a phrase. lol
I dare you to sue Teresa. That would be the funniest thing on earth for you to do. Not only to we have you pegged, but I am positive Teresa told you she was a retired attorney, you can make as many more comments as you want. In fact, I am begging you to try to sue her. I'll be right there with her, I'll even pay all the costs of suit if she is pissed at me for speaking out. Can't wait.
Nagarjuna, I do understand exactly what your points are that not every case is as clear cut as Garrido and my sons mothers murder. But it is so frustrating when they are clear cut, and the criminals get slaps on the wrists and are back out on the streets to harm more people.
Nobody in their right minds could think that is fair or just.
A little over 18 years ago, there were people that believed that Garrido had served his fair share of time for destroying if not all, then at least a large portion of some girls life. Those people released Garrido, and look what happened.
figging?
Nagarjuna, you said....Okay, "he admitted it." So, are you saying that anytime someone admits to committing a crime, that is proof of guilt "beyond a shadow of a doubt" in a capital case?
Um,,,lol...yes? Especially if all signs point to the person admitting to the crime maybe? lol
denise said “Those people released Garrido, and look what happened.”
I think we both would agree that this should never have happened, Garrido being released.
His previous rape was carried out in a pre-meditated and cold bloodied way.
The actual scanned witness statement of the rape victim is available on-line.
What I found is even more disturbing is that Jaycee could remain at that house for 18 years, undetected, when Garrido was on parole.
An inconceivable failure of the parole system.
URGENT changes are certainly needed
denise
Confessions have been known to have been obtained "under duress"
Nagarjuna, I forgot to respond to your question about the different levels of killing someone.
I tried to scroll up and find what you had written, but got lost in all the riff raff. Please ask the question again. It was something about people killing on different levels. And why they dropped the charges on his murder case.
They dropped the charges, because court is like Clearance or Yard Sales. You put a higher price than you are asking for on something, then you drop it down to make everyone seem happy. I used to do it to my Dad. I knew he wouldnt give me $20 right away. So I would tell him I wanted something that cost $100. He would explode at that high amount and I would tell him, I am sorry, I shouldnt have asked. I guess I can be happy with the $20 item instead. He would say, Yeah, that sounds more like it. lol
I do not understand why they dropped his charges down exactly, to tell you the truth. I know that the girls side of the family are all dysfunctional, and her mother even lied on the stand to make her boyfriend look like a hero. They started immediately trying to sue the police department, and it all went awry. I did not have custody of the baby at this time. So I had no real legal say for about 8 months. By the time I was legally allowed to be involved with speaking to detectives and prosecuting attorneys, it was too late. They were telling me the deal they had made, and I tried to make my valid arguments. But it was already a done deal.
Yes Tara. And I guess sometimes the police do threaten people to confess to crimes that they didnt commit. You and Nagarjuna make good and true points there.
Still frustrating to know how much corruption is in our 2 countries and the rest of the world for that matter. On everyones part, both lawmakers, and criminals alike.
denise
You mentioned earlier that this person would be out in 7 years.
What was the actual sentence, do you know ?
Is the 7 years from now, the first occasion that parole can be considered ?
denise
Yes, very frustrating, dispairing at times
I mentioned earlier about
Is Capital Punishment a Deterrent ?
Some interesting statistics here
http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/deterrence-states-without-death-penalty-have-had-consistently-lower-murder-rates
Tara,,,He received 18 years, with no possibility of parole. And he has to serve 85% of it. If that even makes sense.
I wasnt fully involved, and I was also, at the time, in the middle of my own custody battle with the family. So I cannot say for certain that I am 100% clear on his sentence. As I remember, the above mentioned sentence is correct.
I remember that the prosecuting attorney was trying to make me feel that I should be excited about the "no possibility of parole" part. I also remember demanding the death penalty, being shown a list of death penalty qualifications, and me pointing out the many things he had committed on that list. I did not have enough time to study or research anything. As I said, I was in a custody battle with the family, even though I still sat with them in court and spoke with them and tried to support them. It was all a little awkward for me, and I tried hard to keep the peace and not overstep my boundaries.
And as I believe it, he will definitely be OUT in 7 years. He has an "out date" that cannot be changed. He does not have to go to any further hearings. He is free on that particular day. It is very strenuous to get a straight answer from anyone in the departments. They always seem to be too busy to answer my questions. And nobody seems to know who actually can answer my questions, also. Nobody knows anything. I do not even know if he will be on parole when he is released. It is my understanding that he will not be, as he will have served his full term. pfft
"I do not even know if he will be on parole when he is released"
That was my first thought, wondering if he would be subject to parole monitoring on his release.
It is just possible you may be worrying unecessarily unless you have reasons to think otherwise.
"In fact, I am begging you to try to sue her. I'll be right there."
I don't doubt that for a moment. :-)
If Teresa's a "retired attorney," I can understand why she "retired," judging by what I've seen of her conduct here. :-) It's probably more like "forced to retire" due to incompetence. :-)
I have plenty of reason to worry. With or without parole monitoring. I have the mans son. He is a violent repeat offender. I want him nowhere near my son. This fact will not make him happy. Unhappy violent people do not make for very safe situations. lol
I know for a fact that this man is going to hunt us down, Tara. And he is a murderer. And not a very nice one either. He didnt politely kill the girl, as Nagarjuna seems to think may be possible in some situations. He did not even take into consideration that he was stabbing all around his own child, or that that baby was drowning in his mothers blood, literally, after he slit the girls throat.
And you think I should pay for his upkeep out of my paycheck? Keep him well fed and housed and happy until he is free to run wild again?
Denise, a quick comment before I take my leave for the evening. People admit to crimes all the time that they didn't commit. Granted, if their admission is corroborated by tons of supporting evidence, that is more convincing. But admission by itself or even along with strong corroborating evidence is not necessarily good enough to ensure guilt "beyond a shadow of a doubt." Not that that measure of certainty is required for conviction in even a death penalty trial, but I believe that it should be.
Good night all. Yes, even you, Teresa. :-)
Good night, Nagarjuna. Stay safe and God bless you.
Nagarjuna,,,as far as I know, there is no cure for rabies, though. :)
come on now, you can do better than that..... Sue. Please
Denise
I am genuinely concerned for your situation and others that are in similar ones.
Seriously, I have often wondering how I would feel, if say a rape victim, who had to go through the trauma of appearing in court, but then knowing that at some time the person was going to be released.
An even more horrendous dilemma for me would be if say for instance we had the death penalty for rape. I know I should report the crime, not only for the cause of justice, but to protect any further victims.
But could my conscience and moral beliefs allow me to report the crime if I knew a death sentence was automatic.
A horrendous dilemma that any victim should never be faced with.
Wow. I think there have been about 200 new comments since I left this morning.
Hello everyone!
Well, Tara. All I can say is that maybe in the event that you had to report a rape case, knowing that the penalty was going to be something that you feel so strongly against. I believe that in that moment, you would know the right thing to do. You would feel it in your heart, amiga. And especially if the victim was someone that was close to you.
Hi and I think it's goodbye goblinbee
Not sure what the time is where you are but it's 4.30am here.
Even though I'am a bit of a night owl I need to sleep sometimes.
Happy reading !
denis
Extremely difficult dilemma though.
Catch 22
What ever choice was made I would have great difficulty living with my decision either way.
Ah, I just noticed that you were referring to the rape case as being yourself that was the victim. Now, that might make a difference. On the one hand, you would feel that you are being selfish if you report it, and cost this man his life. So, I believe that you, Tara, would just take the loss and move on with your own pain and never report it. IF, it was positive that the man wouldnt harm anyone else in the future.
But then I believe that you WOULD think about his future victims. And especially, if he was very violent with you. And you would do the right thing. Either way, you will have to live with pain, guilt and suffering for the rest of your life, after being raped, Tara.
Welcome, goblinbee. I want you to know how much I appreciate the conversations we have had. It is an honor to have had the privilege to converse with you. :)
"you would feel that you are being selfish if you report it, and cost this man his life"
More than just selfish, it would make me feel like a murderer
Aha, Nagarjuna,,,I know you will find this post some time at a later date. But I found your comment that I was searching for earlier, and here it is
Second, although I'd still prefer not to discuss a case in which you're so personally involved, I'd just like to ask you why they lowered the charges? Was it because he cooperated by pleading guilty? Was it because of extenuating circumstances? Would you not agree that, although "dead is dead," death can be inflicted with varying degrees of barbarity by peoplew with varying degrees of pathology or defectiveness and that these variations should, perhaps, be taken into account in formulating charges?
And I wanted to ask you a question along these same lines. (And I cant answer all the questions you asked there, I apologize for not knowing the answers) I have commented to Tara about why I believe the charges were lowered.
Here is my question to you, relating to your questions.
If I stab you in the eye with a butter knife all the way to the brain and kill you,,,should I get a lesser charge than lets say, stabbing you in the entire face with a pitchfork? DEAD IS DEAD! It doesnt matter how pretty I killed you. Or if you cheated on me, or I was up all night tweaking on methamphetamines, or I was PMS'ing, or the Devil made me do it, or I ate Twinkies the night before, Nagarjuna. I do not believe that your family members would agree that my illness should be taken into consideration.
Tara, how do you feel about the death penalty for actual murderers then? Would you feel like a murderer if you reported a murderer, knowing they will receive the death penalty? And would you not report him, knowing that there will soon be perhaps children murdered, because you didnt report this murderer? Wouldnt their deaths make you feel at fault also?
Denise, likewise!
“If I stab you in the eye with a butter knife all the way to the brain and kill you,,,should I get a lesser charge than lets say, stabbing you in the entire face with a pitchfork”
Denise I know that the question is directed at nagajuna but I would like to just comment before heading to my bed.
I would not make any distinction in the severity of your 2 scenarios and equal sentence should apply
I agree that “dead is dead”
However compare for instance these 2 scenarios
Husband kills wife, some reasons to suggest some provocation. Obviously punishment is required but as to danger to the general public, probably minimal
Jeffrey Dahmer - atrocities too long to list
There is not doubt that “dead is dead” but I do have difficulty equalising the severity of the two crimes and both receiving the death penalty.
"Wouldnt their deaths make you feel at fault also?"
It certainly would and that is where the dilemma arises.
Do I report a murderer who would almost certain get the death penalty and in my eyes make me also a murderer, or do my duty as I know I should to protect others.
Catch 22.
Luckily in the UK, I will never be faced with this dilemma.
I don't think I've ever spent this much time on the computer in my life. My partner is starting to get lonely. :)
Ah Tara,,,funny you should use the wife as an example. My own mother shot my father. He did not die, but he has brain damage now. So in essence, she really did kill him. She claims it was self defense. I and my brother were there. I was not in the room the minutes before the actual shooting, so I do not know what happened. I walked into the room as the gun went off. I will never know for a fact if it was indeed self defense or not. But, I know they had a rough time, well we all did, for the few months before this happened.
I realize that there are circumstances that murder should not be punished by the death penalty, and also, at times, no prison time either. But those cases are clear cut also.
The same as not all of the persons that have to register as sex offenders right now, should be on the registry at all.
Goblinbee? This much time on the computer? You have been gone all day. Where have you been? lol
goblinbee
"My partner is starting to get lonely. :)
"
Mine went to bed hours ago. He'll be getting up again soon
Well, it is getting late here also, and I have to work in the morning. Goblinbee, go take care of your partner, or catch up on the 200 comments you missed during your absence. lol
Good night Tara and Goblinbee. God bless you and stay safe. :)
denise
What terrible experiences you have had to endure in your life.
But you have survived and certainly appear to have the right spirit to make the best for yourself and your family.
I think I would do my duty to protect others, although one time when I had the chance I dropped the ball.
When I was 24 a dog attacked me; I needed stitches in my chin and to stitch up my mangled ear. I made sure the dog's owner paid the emergency room bill (only about $100--those were the days), but I did not sue for more damages, even though people were saying I could and should. I do not regret not sueing, but I do regret not reporting the dog to animal welfare. The dog had a known history of attacking people, and would most certainly have been put down. At the time, I did not see the value of that--what was done was done. I don't know what happened after that (I moved from the area), but if it did attack another person, I feel I am partly to blame for not reporting it.
Good night Denise and Goblinbee
Hopefully we can continue our exchange of views and thoughts tomorrow.
Yes, I have been gone all day! Which is one more reason I felt guilty about running to the computer the minute I got home. But I guess I meant how much time I've spent over the past however many days (4? can't quite remember).
Okay, goodnight everyone. I'll go cuddle my honey.
Wait, I have to make one more comment on the death penalty states crime rate site Tara posted.
It seems that the death penalty states had the bigger cities, for one thing. Like Chicago, St. Louis, New York City, etc. And also, at the bottom, it showed that some of the non death penalty states had higher crime rates than some of the death penalty states.
Tara, I think my rough background, along with my fathers iron-fist way of raising us, helped make me a better and stronger person today. I am glad that I went through hell. I do not feel so naive, which helps while raising mischievous kids in such a dangerous world.
Goblinbee, that is a hard choice also to report a dog, or not report it. I think you did not report it for the same selfless reasons that I figured Tara would have when she and I spoke earlier. I think that if it had bitten a friend of yours or a child. You would have no problem reporting it. By me being from California. I have a problem calling the police, as being labeled a snitch is a big problem where I am from. And being an animal rights activist. I do not know what I would have done either if it was me that was bitten. My son was bitten by a dog. I did call the police and report the dog. Nothing was done. The dog would have been slapped on the wrist and parolled in 7 years anyhow. He probably bit numerous people by now. lol
EEEEERIE. Are you guys for real? What does any of this have to do with the price of beans in China? A supposed indian philosopher and 2 women talking about stabbing people in heads or faces with knives and pitchforks so you can decide their sentences. someone else joins in to say, now I am going to go cuddle a honey. Very weird. I hope the law looks into this before we find another creep bragging in writing about spooning a child and hinted about it here. yuk yuk yuk very sick people
Garriddo, there will never be a sentence harsh enough for you. I don't think you will live longer than Dommer in prison, but that is not enough of a sentence for you. So I am praying there really is a GOD that you never really took the time to know, and you will really have to appear before him for everlasting eternal justice. And I hope you take these people with you.
"I'm guessing everyone commenting here is CHRONICALLY UNEMPLOYED?"
Gee, Doc, you don't need to guess. I believe you could figure them all out the way you've figured me out.
Boogie if you are still there we are turning the server off for about 5 minutes for an update.
Dr. Webb I have worked for doctors for over 6 years now and I am just curious as to what exact study have you obtained a PHD for? If you dont mind me asking.
Dr. Webb I know you will do the right thing with this fake too.
T, its my turn for a sleep. GTW has it.
You said you changed after the birth of your second daughter. How would it feel to have that little girl kidnapped, raped and pregnant?
I'm hoping you get a big, burly prison "girlfriend" who may be able to help you understand how it feels.
I have a phd in crime.
"If I stab you in the eye with a butter knife all the way to the brain and kill you,,,should I get a lesser charge than lets say, stabbing you in the entire face with a pitchfork? DEAD IS DEAD! It doesnt matter how pretty I killed you. Or if you cheated on me, or I was up all night tweaking on methamphetamines, or I was PMS'ing, or the Devil made me do it, or I ate Twinkies the night before, Nagarjuna. I do not believe that your family members would agree that my illness should be taken into consideration."
Denise, as I learn more and more from your comments about your difficult life and how it's been impacted by violent crime, I feel a little sheepish about continuing to argue for the rights of people like Garrido to compassion and humane treatment. It feels a little like arguing to a concentration camp survivor that we should be compassionate and humane to the Nazis who ran those camps. My arguments might be sound, but it just doesn't seem quite right to be pitching them to someone who suffered horribly from what those Nazis did.
Yet, I tell myself that I didn't seek you out at the supermarket checkout counter or some other such place to harrangue you with my unsolicited arguments. You came to this site to discuss the Garrido case, just as I did. Perhaps your initial intent was simply to vent your outrage over what Garrido did and your frustration that he and others are able to continue victimizing children and ruining their and their families' lives, but you have shown an evolving willingness to open your mind to viewpoints other than what you came here with, and you have shown courtesy, fairness, respect, and just plain human decency to all, and I want you to know that I admire and applaud you for it. What's more, I feel inspired by your example to apologize for frequently not living up to my own ideals in the way I've conducted myself here, and to try much harder to act with utmost integrity from now on and be the best person I can be in these discussions, even if I have to put a lot more effort into this than I do into being a combative as*hole. :-)
(Please see Part 2)
(Part 2)
Your questions above are excellent, as usual, and I feel as hard-pressed to answer them as you say you do to answer some of mine. In fact, I'm feeling more like stepping back and digesting the discussions we've already had than plunging headlong into new discussions. What's more, it's time for me to take care of matters I've been neglecting, and this means posting very little here from this point on. I know you'll all be heartbroken to hear this, :-) but what has to be has to be. :-)
Let me just say in passing that I agree with you that "DEAD IS DEAD" no matter how someone murders you. But I'm inclined to believe that the way someone murders you and the intention behind it affects the way the public views it and how severely they want it punished, and it's also likely to tell us something about how likely the perpetrator is to murder someone else if s/he has the chance. For examples, a Mafia hitman and a Jeffrey Dahmer type killer seem much more unpopular and dangerous to eventually release back into society than would someone with no prior history of violent crime who walked in on his wife having sex with another man and grabbed a .44 magnum out of the drawer and shot the other man once in the chest and killed him. So, if we want to provide the public with the reassuring sense that justice has been done, and if we want to be as certain as possible that anyone we eventually release from prison after a murder won't harm anyone else, we need to take into account factors such as the intent and the nature of the murder.
Of course, I tend to agree with you that anyone who commits murder under just about any circumstances should probably not receive a second chance. They should at least get life in prison. Yet, if we were to start imposing life sentences for ALL murders, our prisons would soon be bursting apart at the seams from overcrowding and our already overburdened state and federal budgets would explode from prison expenses. So, we might be tempted to say, "Well, since we can't keep them all locked up, and we don't want to pay for keeping them alive anyway after what they've done, let's execute ALL murderers instead." And maybe we should except for one not-so-little problem that I keep raising: How do we start executing many more people than we do now and do it for less than it now costs to incarcerate them for life while still giving them ample opportunity to prove their innocence if they ARE innocent?
In other words, how do we execute ALL murderers without taking the terrible risk of executing people who've been found guilty of murder but did not actually commit murder? I don't think we can do that. But I suppose we could still execute many more people much more swiftly than we do now, including Phillip Garrido and everyone else a qualified jury finds "guilty beyone a shadow of a doubt," and we could see what happens. And that's kind of where I'm leaning now, despite my ongoing philosophical objections to killing people who couldn't help but kill.
"I'm hoping you get a big, burly prison "girlfriend" who may be able to help you understand how it feels."
Jeni, I understand your emotional desire to see Garrido suffer. But I wonder how Garrido's suffering the way you described would help Jaycee and her family, you, or society as a whole. It might make you feel good to know that Garrido "got his," if you ever found out about it. But what is the likelihood that you ever would find out about it?
And suppose you did find out about it? Would it really be all THAT gratifying to know that another human being, even one who has acted as heinously as Garrido, has been violated in such a painful and ugly manner, and that another human being did it to him?. Do you REALLY want other human beings to sink to Garrido's level of depravity to "teach him a lesson" for sinking to the level of depravity that he did with Jaycee?
And what "lesson" would Garrido learn from this, and what good would it do for him to learn it? Normally, it's good for us to learn lessons from our mistakes or misdeeds if what we've learned from them makes us less likely to repeat them. But Garrido's going to be locked away for the rest of his life in a place where he won't be able to do to anyone else what he did to poor Jaycee. So, even if his being repeatedly and savagely abused were to discourage him from abusing anyone else the way he did Jaycee, what purpose would that discouragement serve now? Isn't it a proverbial day late and a dollar short?
Nagarjuna,,,the 3 day weekend is also over for me, and I will not be able to comment here much either. I do hope that you will continue to check in from time to time, read whatever is here, and leave a comment or two. This isnt like a chatroom, that the only chance to take part in a conversation is to be there at the appropriate moment.
And I did not originally come here to vent. And before this past week, I have never left comments or blogged anywhere. I actually came here our of curiosity and plain nosyness, I guess.
And Nagarjuna, (and Tara, and anyone else for that matter), I do realize that there are certain circumstances that a person might kill another and punishment wouldnt be necessary. Self defense would be one reason. There are never extenuating circumstances in the case of rape, though.
I understand what you are saying about punishing an innocent person. In the past month, I have heard of at least 3 persons released from prison because they have finally been proven innocent. And those persons served long years.
I also am with you when it comes to DNA testing, and mistakes, and police corruption, and victims lying. I understand all you say, Nagarjuna, and I have to agree with most of it. Not all of it, but much of it. You have brought up excellent points, when I did decide to start commenting, and came here with one thought on my mind. But you opened my eyes and taught me so many things. I feel it is such a privilege to have found the persons here to speak with.
I always wonder what is the point in keeping Charles Manson around. He is going to outlive us all. (Probably because he is so well fed, has medical attn at his disposal, doesnt have to stress about paying rent, house payments, bills, etc. lol )
Well, its been a very long day. Good night everyone, stay safe, and God bless!!
Denise--
The curious thing about Charles Manson is that we have no proof that he ever personally killed anyone. So, does he REALLY deserve to die? I don't know. Do rapists deserve to die? As you point out, what "extenuating circumstances" can there be for forcible rape? I can't think of any, other than my belief that people don't freely will to rape but do it because their brains/minds make them do it. Do rapists deserve to die? Again, I don't know.
So many questions. So few answers I feel entirely satisfied with.
Good night, Denise.
I want to say something. A couple of years ago, a little girl I babysat was riding her bicycle down a dirt hill, and rode very quickly into the street, right in front of a womans car. She was struck, and died within hours. It was very hard for everyone, especially the woman that had hit the girl. She came to the funeral, and I think she cried harder than anyone there. I felt so bad for her. I was holding up fine, until she started crying, and I almost lost it. It was so sad to know what this woman was feeling right then.
But, I think about this woman sometimes, and I wonder if it was my own child that she had hit. I would want to understand. I would not want to hate her. But honestly, I think the sight of her would just kill me. I do not believe I could be a strong enough person to look at this woman without hidden or non hidden hatred, or talk to her. I would wish that I could, I am sure.
I think I am very tired tonight, and I do not know why I felt the need to write that. I cant remember the point I was trying to make. lol. It had something to do with looking at crimes, or death, from 2 different sides. Either you are on the outside looking in, or you are the person or family that it is directly happening to.
I think that largely affects a persons feelings and beliefs. Depending on how close to home crimes hit.
Nagarjuna, you said...The curious thing about Charles Manson is that we have no proof that he ever personally killed anyone.
Then why keep him in prison at all? If we have no proof.
Goshdarn, but it's coming in fast, this here junk. I may be a bum, but I got too many oooobligations to read it all...just yet...if ever, goddamn. Anyhooooo, what Philip Garrido did or didn't do, at it's worst ain't as bad as what happens every time a war breax out, even tho' it's clearly apples & oranges. Point being suchlike, for instance every day some competent person is barred from service so that a more strategic person can do the job they can't get, and do it far worse, inflicting painful injustice for generations to come. And now Jaycee made the cover of People. These people are decoys. Grow up.
'scuse me, that last messssage sounded a litttttle too sssane. The world will b by and large obsolete any minute when the Grand Plan is completed and some essential seeming byproduct is incorporated into a alienating garbanzo-bean-powered nuclear demon weasel smasher. I heard it from Jesus Christ, the son of Satan.
It that doesn't make Philip Garrido look good by comparison, I'm losing my touch. ::blows up a busload of nuns and suchlike:: But cybertalk is cheap. Now, if I could find a decent therapist that takes Medicaid, that would really be signeeeeeeeeeficant. Hell is at hand. Be thankful if you ain't got schizophrenia. Whoever you are, if you got it good, you're one bullet away from being better off dead, and another bullet away from sweet relief, goddammit.
people don't freely will to rape but do it because their brains/minds make them do it.
Again, I have to say that I believe that anyone who rapes or murders cannot possibly be in their right minds. And I also believe that every human being has the potential to murder.
Nagarjuna, I am curious about something. Do you feel that ALL rapists have the sick minded illness, or were you only speaking about Phillip Garrido in particular when you speak of him being ill.
We may soon find Garrido will truly get what he truly deserves. The death penalty may be knocking on his door very soon:
CNN:
"The expert has determined that the bone fragment found in the backyard of Garrido's neighbor is probably human, Lee said."
Now if they can just follow the mind of this serial rapist/murderer and find where he moved the body(ies). I don't doubt that they won't push this one to ends of the earth.
James: Thank you for the site. I especially like the discussion on crime and resolution. Fascinating.
Dr. Webb: Can you give us the addresses you are writing to. Thanks.
I am writing to a slightly overweight man from Alabama, who is wearing a red shirt. He was interviewed by Ali G, when he was in America.
ah, the one with the beard who protested to much. LOL
oops, meant mustache
Dr. Webb: USA direct contact to report pedophile activity is what we were looking for, but, think we may have the most expedient contact afterall.
Garrido wasint talking to God, he is God. THink about it , I been praying for most of my adult life and crap like this still happens. Why is God lettin it happen? I think Garrido and God on same playin field.
Hi Nagarjuna, Denise, Tara, and others. We have all gone back to our lives; that seems good.
Nagarjuna, you said one thing that interests me: "...other than my belief that people don't freely will to rape but do it because their brains/minds make them do it."
I don't know if it impacts the conversation at all, but I don't think I separate people's minds from the people themselves. If their minds are making them do it, who is the "them" exactly? Isn't our mind a lot of who we are? Maybe society has decided that there IS no distinction, and that is why people are restrained or punished for their mind/body actions.
But I admit it is hard for me to wrap my brain around these ideas.
Denise--
"Either you are on the outside looking in, or you are the person or family that it is directly happening to."
I think you make a very perceptive point. I suspect that many who have come here to vent their understandable rage toward Garrido are on the "inside" in that either they themselves have been victimized or they're very close to someone who has. I, on the other hand, am fortunate enough to be "on the outside looking in" and to have the luxury of being able to express an "outsider's" perspective that counsels empathy and compassion not only toward the victims of heinous crime but also toward those who perpetrate it.
I think that we ultimately need to embrace BOTH perspectives and to find some way to reconcile them. What I find fascinating and wondrous to the point of miraculousness are those blessed individuals who have been victimized by violent crime and suffered terribly from it who, nevertheless, express compassion and even forgiveness toward their victimizers. Perhaps we don't all have it within us to follow their example, but it seems to me that they personify an ideal toward which we would all do well to aspire individually and collectively as a society.
"Then why keep him [Charles Manson] in prison at all? If we have no proof."
We have proof of his indirect involvement with the murders. We know that he ordered the murders and participated in their cover up afterward.
"Do you feel that ALL rapists have the sick minded illness, or were you only speaking about Phillip Garrido in particular when you speak of him being ill."
I am, for want of a better word, a determinist. Actually "inevitablist" might be a better word for it. But whatever you call my perspective, I believe that everything we do is ultimately caused by factors that we ourselves don't cause. That is, our actions are caused by our genes, body, brain, conscious and unconscious mind, environmental influences, and a virtually infinite number of other factors, most of which we don't cause or control, working together to make us do what we do.
Now, normally, this infinitude of interacting factors causes us to do harmless things like eat, go to work, and post comments on blogs. But sometimes an unusual constellation of these factors form that causes people like Garrido to do terrible things that inflict terrible harm on others and themselves. This is what I refer to, in a very broad sense, as "sickness" and/or "defect."
What I mean is that Garrido apparently had very powerful abnormal or sick desires to kidnap, rape, and totally dominate females, and he was also lacking or defective in enough empathy, conscience, and concern for being caught and punished to restrain him from acting out his desires.
In other words, there is no free will. But your, my, and most other people's unfree will doesn't result in kidnapping, raping, and holding hostage preteen girls. When unfree will results in acts like these, it is appropriately called "sick."
Goblinbee--
"I don't know if it impacts the conversation at all, but I don't think I separate people's minds from the people themselves. If their minds are making them do it, who is the "them" exactly? Isn't our mind a lot of who we are? Maybe society has decided that there IS no distinction, and that is why people are restrained or punished for their mind/body actions."
Outstanding questions! If you've read my previous comment to Denise, you may have a better idea of what I was getting at, but let me try to expand upon it here in more direct answer to your questions.
When I said that people's brains/minds "make" them do what they do, it was a crudely shorthand way of suggesting that our brain/mind is essentially, for want of a more sophisticated comparison, a kind of organic computer running software and processing data programmed into it by internal and external sources, and whose operations, which are essentially very fast and complex calculations directed by that software and shaped by that data, inevitably produce whatever results they produce.
The electronic computer doesn't have "free will" to produce results not determined by the way it's configured operating according to the instructions and data with which it's programmed. It HAS to produce the results it does given what it is and what it's working with. And so do we human computers. Our brain/mind, shaped by interacting genes, sociocultural influences, and a limitless number of other factors, which, by the way, are mostly unconscious, MAKES us do what we do. Given the way all of those factors work together in a given individual at a given time, he could not act other than how he acts at that time.
Thus, it isn't legitimate to punish someone because we blame him for doing something he couldn't help but do when he did it. But it CAN be legitimate to punish someone, within acceptable parameters of humaneness, to change the conditions causing his and other people's future behavior. Thus, if someone is incarcerated for life or executed for committing a particularly heinous crime, this will be one of the factors that goes into determining people's future behavior, and, in some cases, it may be an influential enough factor to stop someone from committing a heinous crime that he might othewise have committed.
You are a dirty filty pervert, you and your wife. It wasn't God who spoke to you but Satan, the father of lies, and you will spend eternity in hell with your infernal father.
I find it very interesting that Nag has managed to change this entire forum into a discussion on crime and punishment. Interesting how he did that. Fascinating really.
And then there's the petty arguing over lawsuits, and slander and liable and the like. Bantering, all bantering. Really pointless unless you are going to do it. And the needless insults between offenders and sides. All a subterfuge.
It is incredulous that someone suggested that the death penalty does not stop more murders. If a murderer is dead, how does he murder again? Maybe we need to get the murderers off the street and gone. Then murders will be less likely to happen because the ones that want to do it are not here. And if a person doesn't believe it works, then I'd like to try it to see. Yes, I will pull the plug, even shoot the person who needs to die, if need be. Some folks just need to go away permanently.
I am fascinated that someone(s) has/have also managed to turn this into a question and answer session as to what would YOU do in all kinds of cases of sexual assault. Strange. Strange indeed. Does a nightmarish delight in sexual assault pervade this discussion now? How so?
It would be best if the victims were the ones who made the decision, within the parameter of the law, as to what the punishment would be. Then it is fair to THEM! They are the ones left to deal with the pieces that are left of their lives. A woman now has 18 years along with two daughters to try to figure out how to piece things back together.
If the victim (or the dead victim's family or the child victim's family) had a choice to decide when an adult male rapes a child under 13 (the age of majority according to some customs), then the victim or family or both can determine if the perp should die, spend life in prison or be let out within five years or if the family or victim wants the judge or a jury to make the decision for them. Why shouldn’t the victim have the right to determine what happens? After all, WHOSE life was ruined? Surely not the judge. And when you have not been in the situation, you cannot have a clue how it feels. Trust me. I know. I was raped until I bled, thought I was hemhorraging afterwards, thought I was going to tear open and split apart when it happened, cried for mercy, but there was none, nobody there to help me. I cried for a long time afterwards, and bled, laid there in my own bloody mess and cried, could hardly walk the next day. Let ME on that jury. I will be impartial for the victim for sure.
If this was the way the law decided, through the victims, what the punishment would be, it would be more fair to the victims/their family. Then maybe the perps would have to interview the family first to see if they wanted to rape a child in that family. It might not be worth it to them.
If the law does not allow the victim a right to determine the punishment, then perps should die so that we don't have to deal with them back in society when they are "cured"....NOT! And we don't have to pay to feed them for decades.
I'm not going to entertain the idea, “well, what if the perp was 14 and the child was 8, what then?” Obviously the parameters of punishment would be different than if it was a 40 year old man with an 11 year old girl. Still, sickening to me, very sickening.
Sadly, Jaycee was NOT his first victim. And at this point, the bone that was discovered might just tell us that there were others. Truly, this is a horrible situation for everyone involved including the bone owner if it is a Garrido-placed bone.
Star--
This discussion has expanded from the Garrido case to broader issues of free will vs. determinism, crime and punishment, and culpability for crime because we all agree that the Dugards have gone through a terrible, terrible ordeal, and that Phillips Garrido is guilty of horrific conduct meriting lifetime incarceration or even the death penalty, but we don't all agree on the broader context in which the Garrido case should be viewed and evaluated.
Yes, we could decide to execute all rapists as well as murderers, but, aside from the moral issue of whether criminals deserve to die for crimes they couldn't help but commit if, indeed, they couldn't help it, is the practical issue of how we execute more and more people without incurring more and more of a risk of executing the innocent.
After your horrible personal experience that you recount, you may not care if innocent people are executed in order to snuff out the lives of the kinds of people who victimized you, and, maybe I would feel the same way were I too a victim or I loved someone who was.
But I honestly don't believe that victims and those close to them should decide the fates of their victimizers. and they certainly, as a group, shouldn't decide that we should increasingly risk the execution of the innocent in order to "take out" the truly guilty.
But that is a legitimate matter for discussion, and that is why we are discussing it and other legitimate matters and issues here besides simply what should happen to Phillip Garrido.
Hi Nagarjuna, I've been gone all day, but I'll try to answer tomorrow or soon.
Good night!
I hope they pull all your teeth and give it to you from both ends. The same goes for your followers here.
I realize that my comments arguing against free will have been pretty abstract, so I'd like to present a more concrete explanation of my perspective. It comes from a blog post I wrote sometime back. Here it is:
Most people will probably say that they believe in free will. But have they ever given serious thought to what it is? I've done some thinking about it over the years, and the more I think about it, the more convinced I become that it's an illusion. Why? Because it seems to me that free will means the capacity to choose otherwise. That is, if we look at any choice a person has made, we see that he could have made a different choice under the same exact circumstances and with the same conscious and unconscious motivations. I don't see how this can be the case.
A simplified example I've often used to illustrate this is as follows. Suppose it's a very hot day and you have a craving for ice cream when you happen upon an ice cream stand that offers only two flavors--chocolate and vanilla. You love chocolate ice cream and hate vanilla. You have no motivation not to fulfill your craving for ice cream or to forsake your love for chocolate and choose the vanilla ice cream you hate instead. It seems obvious to me that in this situation and with these motivations (and enough money to purchase the ice cream of your choice), you're going to choose chocolate ice cream and not vanilla, that there's no way you could choose otherwise under those circumstances, and, therefore, you are NOT free to choose or will otherwise.
To my way of thinking, every choice we make is a more or less complex variation of this scenario, and all our choices are equally unfree.
Not that I care at all how Teresa feels, but that Teresa is not the same Teresa who has been posting in here, I however am. I still only agree that you are a big bag of toxic wind however.
First of all, you're a nut. Second of all, you're a pervert. Two different problems there, Mr. "Controls Sound with His Mind". Abusing and kidnapping kids like that for years is a crime worthy of a long prison sentence, but I'm wondering about whether one can make an insane asylum out of a jail.
Teresa, I'm glad it wasn't you who said what the other Teresa said, and I'm glad you made that clear.
You and I have certainly had our differences, and we've sometimes done it in ways that haven't reflected very kindly on either of us. But, in the end, we've both stood up for what we believe, and I don't think either of us wants to see the other harmed in any way for it. I know I don't wish that for you.
All the best, Teresa.
God's wrath is far more of a punishment than anyone of us here on earth could ever inflict. Pray for devine healing in Jaycee's life and for her Daugther's to have eternal peace.
Mia, you wrote: "God's wrath is far more of a punishment than anyone of us here on earth could ever inflict."
I, for one, hope that if God exists, he is not a "wrathful" being but the supremely loving, just, and merciful one he is claimed to be. "Wrath" seems like such a HUMAN trait, and not one of our best traits at that.
Surely the Supreme Being and Creator of the universe, if He, She, or It exists, is above and beyond wrath and tempers justice with mercy.
Where would be the justice or mercy in relegating Garrido or anyone else to a place or, as more sophisticated Christians put it, state of being in which he or she suffers ETERNAL, excruciating torment for the wrongs that they've done in this ephemeral life?
And what Christian worthy of the label wholly wishes that fate for anyone, including Phillip Garrido?
Mia. You are so correct. My prayers are with Jaycee and her entire family. Comprehension of what she and they have endured are so terribly horrible and we know we still can't see the depths of which those happenings took upon them and their future.
The trouble here is that even though we know HE exists, knowing HE allows us to make our own ways, make our own destinies, and opportunity to save ourselves. HE didn't allow Jaycee and so many others to make their own way, HE allowed Gariddo and his wife to make their ugly selfish ways, and HE allowed the rest of the world the kind of pain we feel over it. As much as I would like to do something for Jaycee and her family. I feel as if my prayers are gone on deaf ears. I feel it is not enough at times to pray, it is time to put an end to pedophiles ability to recommit.
I'm gonna get flamed for this, but I'm praying for you, Mr. Garrido. I don't believe anyone is beyond redemption. On that note, I do hope that your time in prison is lengthy for what you have done, and I pray for Jaycee as well. Hopefully things pick up for her now that she's been found.
ハブネスーさん: I for one have no intent on being angry with how you feel. This is afterall what HE teaches us. But I do not believe Gariddo is anything other than Satan's spawn and is incapable of the true sorrow required of his acts to earn redemption.
Teresa--
You raise a key question. Why does a supremely loving, just, and merciful God allow such terrible things to happen to good people?
Christians typically answer that the fact that God does allow this simply means that "His ways are not our ways" and, are, therefore, beyond our limited comprehension. Thus, we should simply take on faith the fact that God is ultimately good and that all shall be well in the end.
But I've come to a different conclusion. Well, perhaps, "conclusion" is too strong a word for it. I'd like to think that my opinion on the matter hasn't become so conclusive that I couldn't be persuade by sufficient evidence or reason to change it.
But my tentative conclusion is that God allows a Phillip Garrido to kidnap, repeatedly abuse, and hold hostage a Jaycee Dugard for 18 years because God DOESN'T EXIST. At least not a God who really gives a damn about us personally and our sufferings in this life.
And if I'm right, then heaven and hell are right here, right now on Earth and not in some posthumously supernatural realm "above" and "below." WE make heaven, or we create hell, and we do it to ourselves. I vote for making heaven, and I say that we do it not by succumbing to all-consuming fear and hateful vindictiveness, but by filling our hearts with love and compassion for EVERYONE, without conditions and exceptions.
Dear Japanese Characters:
I won't "flame" you for what you've said. I think you've posted one of the most, in the words of a media source to which those words decidedly don't apply, "fair and balanced" comments here. Very nice! Thank you.
"But I do not believe Gariddo is anything other than Satan's spawn and is incapable of the true sorrow required of his acts to earn redemption."
I suspect that many here would agree with this. But I wonder just how many of you have ever sat down and asked yourselves in a deep and abiding way why anyone would FREELY chose to be "Satan's spawn." I can't imagine anyone with free will and with sufficient knowledge of God and Satan, good and evil, and heaven and hell to make an informed choice of such vast importance waking up one morning and saying to himself, "I'm going to be Satan's spawn from this point on and end up agonizing forever and ever in the fires of hell because of it." That just doesn't seem like a very sane choice to me. And who deserves hell for INSANELY choosing it?
As for being incapable of feeling the "true sorrow" required to earn redemption, I very strongly suspect that Garrido is, indeed, incapable of feeling true sorrow for anyone but himself and his own sufferings. For if he were capable of it, surely he would not have kidpnapped Jaycee Dugard, abused her as he did, and held her hostage for eighteen long, miserable years.
But this merely reinforces the point I've been making all along. Phillip Garrido is, through no ultimate fault of his own, a SICK and DEFECTIVE human being whose sickness and defectiveness ARE RESPONSIBLE for his crimes, and we shouldn't hate and vindictively punish people for doing what their sickness and defectiveness MAKE them do.
Here is something interesting Dr. Webb. Look at the last paragraph of page 88 of the police report of the 1976 rape. It is the taxi cab driver/tenant of the warehouse Gariddo committed his last reported rape.
http://media.graytvinc.com/documents/Garrido+Case+File+1976.pdf
While discussing his association and discussions with Gariddo prior to the rape, this paragraph begins:
"Being of a philosophical nature myself..."
Sure, Teresa, you just can't trust those darned philosophers! They're all a bunch of pedophiles. :-)
And rapists.
I'm sorry Dr. Webb, that is page 35, of this 88 page document
If Garrido can turn off sounds with his mind, then can he silence his own self when he is getting gangbanged in Jail?
Teresa quote from statement cited "Being of a philosophical nature myself..."
Apart from the fact the writer can’t spell, your point is what exactly ?
You will have to ask the philosopher on that one, I can't go there.
"You will have to ask the philosopher on that one, I can't go there"
Go where ?
Gornza, my last statement was for you.
I am one of the persons that also agrees with ハブネスーさん. But only due to my belief that each time a person does not accept the Lord as their Savior, repent, and try to change their ways, the enemy (Satan) wins one more soul. I have no arguments to defend my case here, as I have said before, I do not know much about the Bible or Religion. I am only stating how I feel. I think we should pray for Garrido's soul, and then execute him. I'm sorry.
When Nagarjuna speaks of there being no God, it makes me think about why I never try to hurt anyone. And the reason that I try to be good to everyone, is that I was raised to believe in God. I was raised to live by the Ten Commandments. And by those Ten Commandments, I have what I would call an extra conscience. I first think I would like to kill someone, even though I know that is a difficult move to make anyhow, for most people. I then think about jail, and wonder if I would get away with the murder. My third thought is about God and Judgement Day. And I know I cannot take my own revenge.
Anyhow, I always think that if everyone in the world believed the same way I believe, even if my religion is wrong or God doesnt exist, then nobody would want to hurt anyone.
Well, then there are the people that Nagarjuna speaks of. Those, like my daughters clients, that have actual mental disabilities and illnesses. My daughter cares for persons in their homes, that cannot be left alone for 2 minutes. They have to have constant supervision, or they will sometimes harm themselves or others. But, those persons are visually and obviously ill. They do not even have the mental capacity to try to sneak around undetected while they do some of the not so sane things they do. Garrido did many things so he would not be caught.
Denise, there are countless non-theists who don't need to be enticed by the carrot of heaven or frightened by the stick of hell to not only abstain from killing and other serious crimes but to also treat people with respect, kindness, and compassion. And there are countless people who call themselves Christian who, even if they don't murder or rape, still steal, cheat, lie, look down on others every chance they get.
My point is that religious faith is no guarantee of goodness, and a lack of religious faith is no guarantee of the opposite.
"But only due to my belief that each time a person does not accept the Lord as their Savior, repent, and try to change their ways, the enemy (Satan) wins one more soul."
I asked this in a recent comment, but I think it bears asking again: How could any sane person knowingly choose Satan over God and eternal torment in hell over eternal bliss in heaven, and if no sane person could knowingly do this, how could they be held responsible enough for their choice to be sent to hell?
Hi Nagarjuna, I've just caught up with the last 30 posts. I have to admit that I am less interested in the question of why people do what they do than I am in the question of how we should respond once they act. I think you and I agree on the big stuff: that all animals, human and non-human, should be treated humanely, no matter what the circumstances--even if the animal is not behaving humanely. Depending on how broadly we want to define humane (if it can simply mean kindness, for example), most of us are inhumane in small ways every day--we react to other people's aggresion or violence with aggression and violence of our own. It is what we do when we feel threatened.
This does not mean that I am NOT interested in the why, just less so. I spend some amount of time thinking about animal behavior (human/non-human), and I have not been satisfied with the idea of "instinct." Instinct is not seeming like quite the same thing as what you are talking about (the lack of free will), but I wonder in what ways you think they are the same or they are different.
I guess what Im trying to say Teresa is that Garrido right now is doing a half OK David Carridine Impression with his Family Jewels. "Snatch the understanding from my hand, ok?" Oh and btw NOTHING brand new has taken place. Nuts have kidnaped and raped since the beginning of time. Oh and WHERE was god when this girl was kidnapped? Where was God when she was raped? Where will God be when the next rape occurs? Rest well tonight everyone!
Whatever lol
You people have made me think so hard this week, my brain hurts.
I think I am going to take a break for awhile. This has started to become a bit of an addiction for me, and I have to break away.
I will, of course, look in from time to time (daily lol) to check on things. If we eventually all go our separate ways and stop writing here, which is very highly likely to happen one day, I wish each and every one of you the best of everything. And I thank you for all of the education and new knowledge you have enlightened me with. I hope to see comments from each of you forever. I still wish there was a better place for posting than here. I had a great time with you guys. God bless you and I will pray for you all. Nagarjuna, I hope you do not mind that I pray for you, after all, it cant hurt. Right? Good night, my friends. Peace
Good night, Denise. I'll miss your earthy input. Take care.
Garrido has an uncurable mental condition that drives him to comment horrible sex crimes. Our society needs to do a better job of identifying this condition in sex offenders and keep them out of society.
My heart goes out to all his victims, and my rage is focused on all the authorities that decided to release him back into society.
Garrido does know that his crimes are wrong and horrible, but he is so mentally sick that he cannot control his urges and is a danger to the public. We should not want to kill Garrido or wish horrible things upon him. What we should have done is kept him out of society and studied him so we can better understand this sickness to help identify others with his illness to protect the public from their horrible crimes.
Yeah he is so sick and mentally unstable.
Do mentally unstable people build sex lofts and kidnap and rape people? Do they also plan these things?
Give me a break.
Let's castrate the bastard.
"Do mentally unstable people build sex lofts and kidnap and rape people? Do they also plan these things?"
In a word, YES. You may not want to believe it. And even if you do believe it, the last thing you may want to do while you're so filled with understandable hatred and outrage toward this man is admit it publicly. But I have to believe that if you look deep down into your heart of hearts, you must realize that mentally healthy human beings don't act the way Garrido has acted.
Goblinbee, perhaps you can explain it to me, but I don't see how we can or, at least, should separate the way we regard and treat criminals from considerations of why they committed their crimes and whether or not they could have abstained from committing them.
If they couldn't help but commit them, I don't see why we should blame, hate, and vindictively punish them for what they did. And if we actually know why they committed their crimes, we can tailor the sentence to that understanding.
For instance, if someone flew into a violent rage and beat someone to death because he had a brain tumor causing him to act this way, the appropriate "sentence," it seems to me, would not be capital punishment or lifetime incarceration, but, if possible, removal of the brain tumor as a precondition for release.
As for instincts, I'm not a biologist, but I understand an instinct to be a species-specific, genetically programmed behavioral response of high specificity to an environmental stimulus, and while humans may act instinctively at times, such actions would be only a subset of the much broader kind of determined will and action I've been writing about here.
Denise, thank you for your prayers. They can't hurt. :-) And even if there is no God to hear them, YOU hear them when you utter them, and that is bound to have a positive impact on your psyche.
I hope we haven't seen the last of you here. But whether we have or haven't, I wish you and yours all the best too. And just remember, it's not too late to move back to Sacto. :-)
"Oh and WHERE was god when this girl was kidnapped? Where was God when she was raped? Where will God be when the next rape occurs? "
The same place as Santa Claus and Zeus, I suspect.
Nagarjuna,,,my world is crashing down around me here very fast. It is truth. But, I do not think that jumping from the frying pan back into the fire would be a good idea. lol I have no skills, yet I have a job here. It is too late to return home, for me. Your friend Tom would be writing about me. lol
I returned here to tell you that I agree with Tom, by the way, lol about the vouchers. That is an excellent idea. And the govt SHOULD be selective. By giving vouchers only to those that are truly eligible. I didnt read everything on the page, so I hope I read correctly, and my comments this evening make sense to you.
This saddens me to know that I am here again tonight, and I did not break away. lol
Nagarjuna, did you say before to someone here that your email is already posted somewhere? :)
Denise, I thought my e-mail was available on my Blogger profile, but I just discovered that it no longer was. So, I've remedied that. Thanks for calling it to my attention.
So may I email you?
ํำYes, Denise, you are more than welcome to e-mail me.
Gracias, amigo. I sent you an email. Please let me know if you receive it.
Got it, Denise. I'll reply to you shortly.
Hi Denise and Nagarjuna. Sorry to hear your world is crashing down, Denise. Maybe Lima is in your future (you made it sound heavely in a previous post).
Nagarjuna, I will try to read and respond tomorrow to your post. So tired now...
Ethem, do you REALLY think God is the kind of being who would and should act as horribly toward Garrido as Garrido did toward that poor girl? Is that not an insult to God?
I think you French are more thoughtful than that. Not like all-too many of we Americans.
So tell me Nagarjuna....was garrido's wife mentally unstable also?
*rolls eyes
Jennifer--
What continues to astonish me is that anyone could really, in their heart of hearts, think that Garrido was NOT mentally ill or otherwise disordered to do what he did. And even the majority of comments here blasting Garrido and wishing the worst torments upon him imaginable acknowledge that he's "SICK."
Of course, there are different kinds of mental illness or disorder, and they don't all entail movie stereotypes of people with fiendishly contorted faces screaming nonstop gibberish at the tops of their lungs while they squirm wildly in their straightjackets.
I find it very curious that you and certain others here have accused me of "defending" Garrido and then proceeded to speculate, if not outright assert, that the only reason I could do this would be if I actually molested or wanted to molest children myself.
One thing that's so curious about this is that I've said from the outset that I think Garrido should be locked away for life, and I've gone on to say that I wouldn't necessarily oppose his execution. I just can't understand how this constitutes "defending" him and promoting his being "released within a few years" to repeat his odious crimes.
And I will say once again that I am not a pedophile, and that the strong and persistent arguments that I've made in forums such as this regarding pedophiles, murderers, and other kinds of criminals stem from my PHILOSOPHICAL position that criminals are not acting from culpable free will, and my corresponding MORAL position that we should treat them accordingly.
Unfortunately, some people seem unable to discuss this perspective with me in any detail, much less rebut it, so they try to displace the discussion onto such irrelevancies as my sexual proclivities.
I call this an "irrelevancy" because even if I were a pedophile, which I'm not, that would have NOTHING to do with whether my arguments concluding that pedophiles couldn't help but commit their crimes is true.
Yes, Jennifer, I believe that Garrido's wife was also mentally disordered and/or defective to participate in whatever ways she did in Garrido's crimes. There seem to have been a pathological attachment to her husband and submission to his will coupled, perhaps, with a defective conscience that, had it not been defective, would have overridden that attachment and compelled her to take appropriate action.
Jennifer,,,of course both of the Garridos are mentally unstable. How else could they commit the heinous acts they have committed? That doesnt forgive them for what they have done, and it should not protect them either during their trial and sentencing. And they should be put to death, because we have no reason to pay for them to live long healthy lives behind bars. And, there will be no worry that we might, as Nagarjuna fears, convict innocent people here.
I also believe that, now, Jaycee and her daughters, are mentally unstable. There are different stages of mental instability. And the criminally insane should be executed. Definitely. (To Nagarjuna) Do not worry, they are so "STRICKEN WITH ILLNESS THAT THEY KNOW NOT WHAT THEY DO" that they will know not what hits them when bazillions of volts stop their existence.
To those of you that continue to accuse Nagarjuna of being a pedophile because he appears, in your minds, to be "defending" the Garridos: I want to ask you something...
There was a woman that hit a little girl that I babysat, with her car and killed her. It was pure accident. And we all DEFENDED the woman that was driving the car. Does this mean that you feel I have a strong desire to get in my car and run over kids also?
It is the fact that we understand the situation with this woman and the girl. Some people in our community did not forgive this woman. They could not open their eyes or their minds to anything except the anger they felt that the little girl died by this womans car. Nagarjuna looks at more than just the surface of this situation. I understand Nagarjunas points he tries to make here, I do not agree with all of them, but I do at least understand the theories he has.
I keep hearing people ask if maybe Garridos wife is a victim because Garrido had beaten her into submission and brainwashed her.
Im not sure if everyone is thinking about the fact that Nancy Garrido must have already had self esteem problems and mental problems when she fell in love with a rapist serving time in prison, and married him.
Im sure Garrido contributed to much of his wifes sickness. But someone else had already damaged this womans mental state before she ever met Phillip Garrido.
Denise--
A person can be mentally ill or defective and be perfectly capable of suffering terribly from a method of execution such as the electric chair. I do believe that if we do execute the likes of the certainly guilty, such as Phillip Garrido, we should do it in a way calculated to cause as little pain and discomfort as possible, and being zapped with "bazillions of volts" probably ain't it. :-) Interestingly enough, lethal injection, as currently practiced, probably isn't either. There have been many concerns raised about how excruciatingly painful and unpleasant an experience this might be for the condemned when it isn't carried out as expertly as it should be.
But I'm wondering if you really ARE prepared to have the state execute every "criminally insane" person who is certainly guilty of rape or murder. Suppose someone raped or murdered as a result of a brain tumor that could be removed and the person would be safe from then on. Would you want THAT person executed? If so, why? If not, where would you draw the line between the disordered people you would execute and those you wouldn't? Would you execute a certifiable paranoid schizophrenic whose illness convinced him that the only way to defend himself against the next door neighbor he mistakenly believed was plotting to kill him was to strike first with lethal action?
Jennifer I agree with EVERYTHING YOU SAID 99%. I know if they find that Garrido murdered someone, he will only get prison time. And that truly sucks. It has been in the news that the State is worried, as the public is outraged that if they do not find anything else on Garrido that he WILL ONLY GET 11 years for these HORRIBLY VILE ACTS as these are the laws at this time.
I for one hope they continue to turn over every stone and find more acts. I am not sure that the 14 year old girl raped many years ago and feared going through the system, thereby dropping charges can now go forward, or if this will be a 3 times your out, but I do not believe this will happen either.
My 1% difference in all your statements is that castration is not enough. I have left a link for you re: a pedophile, Kenneth Parnell/Pernell who molested raped and sodomized children for his entire life. Was worldwide known for kidnapping one boy for 7 years destroying that boys life and heart, and kidnapped another who the first boy saved. While scumbag pedophile kept going in and out of the system, he just kept continuing his THOUGHTLESS SELFISH WANTS, NOT AN ILLNESS.
At the age of 71, this pedophile while in hospice care. HE WAS SO SELFISH, THOUGHTLESS, and only wanted for himself, he had no ability to kidnap anymore, so at 71 years of age, he tried to hire his nurse to Kidnap a boy with a "clean anus".
They are not sick, THEY ARE SELFISH AND WANT ONLY WHAT THEY WANT. TIME, in prison WILL NOT HELP, CASTRATION does NOT HELP, they still continue even so.
THEY NEED TO BE PUT DOWN ONE BY ONE. It is the only sane thing to do for anyone who wants to CLAIM they are sick, yet there is no proof, therefore not cure! It is the only sane thing to do to keep our children and women safe from these SELFISH life destroyers.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kenneth_Parnell
Nagarjuna, you said....There have been many concerns raised about how excruciatingly painful and unpleasant an experience this might be for the condemned when it isn't carried out as expertly as it should be.
And I say to you, Sir. It cannot be anything close to how excruciatingly painful, scary and unpleasant it is to be raped, at any age, let alone the situation that Jaycee was subjected to.
Was Phillip Garrido so careful to take any of this into consideration before he did what he did? Do murderers?
Nagarjuna, you try to compare brain tumors to effects from drug abuse. I would forgive a person with cerebral palsy for drooling on me, but I wouldnt forgive a crackhead for spitting on me.
Teresa, you said there is no proof so there is no cure. But have you ever seen the persons that are being treated for "illnesses" such as depression, anxiety, post-traumatic disorder, schizophrenia, bipolar, etc? My God, the medicines they prescribe make them more crazy and less functionable than they started out being.
So, if you ask me, there really is no cure for mental illnesses. The meds they prescribe turn people from being depressed, to being depressed drug addicts.
"It is the only sane thing to do for anyone who wants to CLAIM they are sick, yet there is no proof..."
What "proof" is needed of Garrido's or Parnell's sickness beyond the acts they actually committed or tried to commit? What merely "selfish" person wants to molest little boys or girls and then goes ahead and does it, over and over and over again despite the huge risk to himself? And what merely "selfish" person is dying of a terminal disease after spending years in prison for molesting children and tries to get his nurse to procure for him a little boy? To say this isn't "sick" is like saying that a person whose skin is erupting with smallpox lesions isn't sick. The proof is in symptoms that no healthy person could fake.
Denise, I'm sorry but I just can't condone a civilized society intentionally inflicting painful punishment on a mentally disordered person for unavoidably inflicting pain and suffering on his victims. If we aren't better than that, we are even more lost than we are already, and little if any better than the person we're punishing.
"I would forgive a person with cerebral palsy for drooling on me, but I wouldnt forgive a crackhead for spitting on me."
Why is that, Denise?
Nagarjuna,,,my "sick" and "crazy" relatives live near you. I wonder how you are going to feel if they ever enter your house, even to do nothing more than rob you over and over again, as they are very likely to do, if they havent hit your house yet already. How many times would you want to see them being released? And would you mind paying for them to be in jail forever? I know for a fact that my family members will never be normal and law abiding. They are always going to be menaces to society. They really cant help it. They are severe drug addicts. And they think they are gangsters. lol And in a sense, they are, I guess. They have lived their entire lives as low lifes. What do you think we should do about them, Nagarjuna?
My cousins, aunts and uncles have caused major physical harm to many people. Stabbings, shootings, etc. But in my above scenario, we are only speaking about repeated robberies.
Why would I forgive a cerebral palsy person but not a crackhead? Because there is a huge difference in the intentions of both, Nagarjuna.
The person with cerebral palsy does not drool intentionally and cannot help it. But a crackhead does things maliciously on their own accord. Also, they caused their "sickness" themselves.
Nagarjuna,,do you feel that persons that murder people for money are sick? And are there different degrees of sickness while murdering for money? Like, if I murder someone for money because my children have no food. Or if you owe me money, but wont pay me. Or if I need money for drugs, and I murder someone. I feel that in each circumstance, I should be executed.
One more to look at...
"tommy " said "" Phillip Craig Garrido is a kind and caring man who tried to give an 11 year old girl a stable environment. And he kept her safe for two decades""
I sincerely hope there are some law enforcement officials following up on the SICK BASTARDS that are on this site defending Garridos. There are more Jaycees out there given that Probation and Parole STILL have not learned their lesson from this and begun searching the homes of these sick bastards that are UNDER STATE SUPERVISION !!!
"The person with cerebral palsy does not drool intentionally and cannot help it. But a crackhead does things maliciously on their own accord. Also, they caused their "sickness" themselves."
But, Denise, have you ever asked yourself why a "crackhead" becomes a crackhead, why anyone would cause themselves to be sick unless some underlying sickness or defect led them to? And have you ever asked yourself why some people "intentionally" harm others? Yes, the crackhead spits on you because he "intends" to, but WHY does he intend to?
Denise, why do you believe that someone should be executed for murdering someone for money to feed her kids?
Colin:
RE: "I sincerely hope there are some law enforcement officials following up on the SICK BASTARDS that are on this site defending Garridos."
Believe me, they are working on it! :)
Good for them, Teresa. If anyone here is really suggesting that Garrido did nothing wrong, they probably deserve to be investigated as far as the law will allow. But then I don't recall anyone here doing that. Do YOU?
Oh Look Nargarjuna must be another Garridos... he is obsesed with this blog and has found a home here , feeding his sociopathic narcisistic ego..
Nargarjuna... why is it that you can't pull yourself away from this blog ? You sick ass bastard.
With ridiculous and unsound philosophy at that. Doesn't take one long to see why.
Colin, you did mean "sick bastard" as in socially unacceptable, correct?
Colin: Here is a perfect example.... and will be the last time I read/quote the writings of another "sick bastard" Nag wrote:
"But then I don't recall anyone here doing that. Do YOU?"
As I said before, he has absolutely no compassion for any victim... As I said before, he only gave it earlier when it was pulled out of him over a three day period. Now, he forgets all the pedophile activity on this site.
Sick Bastard
What's the least bit "ridiculous" or "unsound" about it? I'm still waiting for you to tell me. But if you haven't after all this time, it seems doubtful that you can.
"Now, he forgets all the pedophile activity on this site."
Teresa, I haven't forgotten Nilax's comments. But I don't recall them "defending" Garrido.
And this is that last time I will tell you Nag. You are a self serving, arguing, pathetic, excuse of life. You have been told by several people. You don't want to do anything but argue a ridiculous cause with ridiculous argument. I am not going to respond to your bullshit, because that is all it is, BULLSHIT.
Teresa said...As I said before, he only gave it earlier when it was pulled out of him over a three day period.
Yes, a 3 day period in which Nagarjuna, Teresa and myself were all present. And I see we are all 3 still returning.
Colin Kenneth Cote, if you feel this way about Nagarjuna, on the grounds that he cant pull himself away, then you must also call me and Teresa "sick ass bastards" lol
What do you guys think about Cheyvonne Molino? The neighbor and business associate that keeps changing her story, and is telling Jaycee to "tell the truth" about what really happened to her for 18 years. The police are now searching her properties for evidence.
I'm only here to help catch the pedophiles Denise. Please speak for yourself. I certainly haven't been here playing the game with them during the time I have been here either.
lol Teresa. Catch the pedophiles? All of the investigating in all eternity on this internet could never prove to you or anyone else if I, me, myself, denise, is or is not a pedophile, Teresa. And I do not believe that all of the investigating in all eternity could prove that Nagarjuna is or is not either. Or anyone else on here, for that matter.
There is no proof that Nilax is a pedophile. Even from his/her writings. But he/she is definitely a disturbed person that I would not wish to see walking the streets. And Teresa, how many people have posted here in the past week? Mainly the same people. I guess you need to investigate us all. I think you should continue onto Club Penguin and then the Nickelodeon sites next, when you finish up here. Those are some high risk sites, you know. Some of those penguins dressed up in their lobster suits, carrying their little balloons have always seemed a little suspicious to me. Throwing up their little text bubbles asking my son to be their "buddy". Eww, Eerie. lol
Well then, we will soon find out won't we.
No, Teresa. I do not believe we will. Actually.
Teresa, with all due respect, you haven't rebutted ANY of my arguments. You've just resorted to ad hominem attacks against me as a person, and you and I both know that this is the last resort of the desperate.
So, go on attacking me personally if that's the best you can do. The more perceptive people here will see through your tactics, and I guess it really doesn't matter what the less perceptive people think.
Nagarjuna, I think it is so wrong for me to murder someone for money to feed my kids. Do you honestly believe I would be right to run into the corner mom and pop store, murder the little old woman there, for a loaf of bread, some cheese and a gallon of milk? Take a little cash (or a large amount of cash even)? As you already know, I do have financial problems. Our cupboards stay basically empty, lol. I wouldnt dream of even shoplifting to feed my children. There are even vegetable gardens in a few of my neighbors yards. I would never take one veggie, without permission from the owners. Even if my children were starving.
But at the same time, I have a strong faith in the Lord. And I know that He will get us through all of our hard times. And even though we might go some days without food, we would be blessed and rewarded later. Do not get me wrong, please. My children eat 3 meals every day. And I am a vegetarian, but my children eat meat daily.
Colin, I'll let you in on a little secret as to why I post to this blog so much. It's not so much an "obsession" as just plain old stubbornness. When people try to run me out of an internet forum where I'm making good arguments, I just dig in my heals and ramp up the postings.
Of course, you probably don't believe that I'm making good arguments. Hell, I doubt that you've even bothered to read any of them carefully and consider them. You just see someone who doesn't agree with those who hate Garrido and want to see him sodomized to death and burnt in hell forever afterward, and you see red. But if you can overcome your personal attacks on me and rise to the level of presenting sound counterarguments to any of the things I've said here, go for it.
Awww, Nagarjuna. I am sad now. I thought you came here because you liked us so much.
Denise, of course I don't believe that you should murder anyone to feed your kids. But I also don't believe that you should be executed for it if you did. What would be the point of killing a desperate mom trying to take care of her starving kids the only way she could think of during a moment of irrational panic? Would it bring the murdered person back to life? Would it be necessary to keep you from murdering again? Suppose you killed someone by accident while you were robbing them? Suppose you were genuinely and thoroughly remorseful over what you'd done. What would be the point of needlessly adding another death to the scorecard and victimizing YOUR kids too?
Oh I do, Denise. :-) I have mixed motives for posting here. I love to have respectful and probing discussions with decent people such as you, Goblinbee, Erik, and Tara, AND I like to be a voice of reason and sanity crying in the wilderness that so often characterizes this forum. And, as I've just confessed, I like to stick it to certain people who come on here and act like they're brimming with sympathy for Jaycee Dugard and her family when they aren't doing a damn thing to help the Dugards or anyone else with their hate-filled comments and libelous accusations amd other personal attacks against people like me who present good, solid arguments they can't refute.
lol You say suppose you accidentally killed someone while robbing them,,,as if robbing is acceptable. I understand what you are saying though. But you know that I think robbers should also be executed too. And if my kids have to suffer by losing me, at least they have learned a good lesson in not committing crimes against others.
Did you know that I believe that the man that killed my sons mother might have been sorry he did it, after the fact. I am not positive, but I think it can be possible that he was horribly shocked when he realized that he had actually succeeded in what most of us have threatened or really been so angry and wished we could do before, at some time in our lives.
I feel the same about the man that killed my best friend's 6 month old baby. I think anyone with kids has been so stressed to the point that they wanted to at least scream and pull their own hair out.
But when my daughter was about 6 years old, my boyfriend was leaving me. Oh my gosh, I was so devastated and sad. I couldn't think. I wanted to die. My poor baby girl kept needing me during this time. Mommy, Im thirsty. Mommy, look at me dance. Mommy, Mommy, Mommy!! I was numb and she was needy. I thought I might hurt her, so I called the Child Abuse Hotline on myself and told them that I was afraid I would hurt her. I feel it was the responsible thing for me to do, and they kept her for me for a week in respite care, so I could get myself together. And after I had my son, I think I had post partum depression. When he cried, I would cry. Thank God I had his father with me and my mother next door.
Oh. I am glad you said this:
"like they're brimming with sympathy for Jaycee Dugard and her family when they aren't doing a damn thing to help the Dugards or anyone else"
There is an account set up for Jaycee and her family somewhere. I would try to look it up, but I would not want to be responsible for posting a fake fund address. And I heard there are many. I also heard that the hideous woman, Cheyvonne Molino, that sold the picture of Jaycees daughters to Inside Edition, has set up a "help Jaycee trust fund" account also. I would not recommend sending anything to that woman. I guess if anyone wanted to contribute, they could call the Antioch or Pittsburgh police department for the correct information. Unfortunately, I am not in a position to help. I wish I could.
Hello everyone. Count me as among the ones who can't pull myself away!
But I do keep falling further and further behind in the conversation. All day yesterday I was helping my daughter and her roommate move to a new place; we took load after load in my little truck. I was so exhausted by the end -- I was in bed by 8:30!
I've been thinking about the different personalities on this site. I think all humans experience loss, grief, trauma, damage, etc. in our lives, and these experiences contribute to our imperfections and our faulty thinking. Not one of us is perfect. But there are people on this site who have severely faulty thinking, probably due in part to having experienced huge trauma (personality, upbringing, etc. also play in).
Nagarjuna, it occurs to me that you are expecting something from these people that they simply cannot give (a lucid argument, for example). They maybe "unavoidably inflict pain" upon you because of their own damage and heartbreak. Damage and heartbreak severe enough to warp their thinking.
I haven't really understood this tendency of yours to "dig in your heels" when confrontoed with such people, but, then, you are also at the mercy of your own imperfections! To quote you again: "The proof is in symptoms that no healthy person could fake." And I say that in the nicest possible way. !!!
Ack. I hate misspellings. I meant confronted, not confrontoed.
Teresa I am sorry but if you dissalusion yourself any further and truly believe your soul purpose in going to this blog repeadidly is to "Catch the pedophile" I think you are lying to yourself. Unless your on some special unit task force for a team trying to catch pedophile like the undercover jobs the police do and other units of law enforcement including but not limited to detective units and the FBI, which if you were I highly doubt youd be on the internet bragging about how your a pedophile catcher as you would probably want to remain UNDERcover. Seriously! You preach as much if not more as your BFF Nag. Then you insult others call them names that are horrible like a pedophile and then claim your on your high horse and your some how better then others by saying "im only here to catch the pedophile Denise!" and that you have not been here to play games like others here. Like you have some holier then thou purpose to be here. LOL....
Tu paiera pour tout ce que tu a fait sale criminel!
Salaud de fils de pute!
Goblinbee, if you mean to suggest that my persistence here is pathological, perhaps you're right. :-) But, as pathologies go, surely mine is on the milder end of the spectrum. :-) Rather than robbing, raping, torturing, or murdering, my "pathology" simply motivates me to sustain a strong presence here serving as a continual counterpoint to the prevailing views.
And it IS possible, though I admit not likely, that at least one person has come to question the "prevailing views" in ways they might not had they not read one or more of my comments. What's more, in the process of answering the questions and challenges of others, I've come to examine and refine my own views more and to gain a clearer understanding and emptathy for opposing views and maybe even begin developing an online friendship or two.
Also, I don't feel "pain" from the false criticisms and libelous name-calling that have been directed at me. I feel more amused by them than anything, but also somewhat sad that these are the depths that our human nature often sink to when we don't like what other people have to say but we can't think of good arguments against their arguments.
I'm sorry if you think it's more important to comment on me personally and on my motivations for posting here than it is to discuss the substance of my comments, but I've explained my motivations pretty thoroughly by now, and I think it's time to make any further discussion we might have less about me personally than it is about the issues and arguments raised.
Of course, I fully expect the outraged and the cowardly to continue their ad hominem attacks against me personally, but I believe and expect that people such as yourself are capable of making the remainder of our discussion less about the persons commenting here and more about the substance of their comments.
BrendaStar, lol. I hope you mistakenly forgot to put a comma between the word pedophile and my name. Or did you mean THE PEDOPHILE DENISE. lol Surely and hopefully not. lol Being around my own 3 monsters all day is more than enough time for me to spend with any kid. I do not have a desire to be near kids if I do not have to be. lol
Hello Goblinbee. I hope you got your daughter moved completely and you can rest now. I was missing you and Tara last night.
Brenda, you make a great point. If a certain someone is really here to "catch pedophiles," she's going about it with the efficacious subtlety of someone "beating a drum in search of a fugitive." :-)
I don't presume to know what this person's motivations really are. But I will say that her conduct here has almost certainly failed to fulfill her professed purpose, but, has, instead, only succeeded in making her look ridiculous if not unhinged.
I, for one, have to admit that Nagarjuna has made me see things in a different light a few times. Although he didnt change my views completely, I have had to open my eyes and broaden my ideas about a few things. He makes me think about both sides of a topic. I am happy that Nagarjuna is here to offset everyones way of thinking. It is unfortunate that he sparks anger in some people.
Denise, I appreciate those words. For what it's worth, reading your comments and learning more about the trials and tribulations you and others have been through helps me to see these issues from your perspective better as well. I have a better understand of how we aren't just talking about philosophy but also about people's lives and the terrible suffering they've endured as a result of people like Garrido. They may be sick, but their sick acts still cause terrible pain and suffering.
It's no wonder some get angry when someone like me comes on here and starts preaching "compassion" and "mercy" to them and castigates them for their vengeful fantasies. I'd like to think I've toned downed the castigation as a result of reading comments such as yours.
U give LSD a bad reputation! (Alcohol is much worse.)
"...and I think it's time to make any further discussion we might have less about me personally than it is about the issues and arguments raised."
Nagarjuna, I will endeavor to do just that.
Thanks, Denise. Yes, we moved them both completely in one day. Phew.
BrendaStar, your comments rocked!
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