During the month of July 2009 JM's Enterprises, 1215 Willow Pass Road * Pittsburg CA,(925) 439-8118 was the host to a powerful demonstration, the Creator has given me the ability to speak in the tongue of angels in order to provide a wake-up call that will in time include the salvation of the entire world.
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goblinbee was totally speaking about me here. lol
Does anyone have any thoughts about Cheyvonne Molino that they would like to share and discuss? I do not think the Garridos were the only ones involved in the knowledge and abuse of Jaycee.
Denise, I don't know much about the Molino situation, so I don't know what to say about it. But right now I'm struggling with my pleas of compassion for Garrido in light of the disappearance of Annie Le. As you probably know, Le was a 24-year-old Yale pharmacology doctoral student who was scheduled to get married today but disappeared from the Yale pharmacology lab last Tuesday. Although authorities haven't confirmed that she's the victim of any crime, it certainly doesn't look good for her.
And when I look at what an incredibly pretty young woman she was and hear how bright and sweet she was and how she was filled with so much promise, I feel very angry about anyone who might have harmed her. A part of me would love to "get medieval" on him, but, despite that, I hope that if she is found to have been murdered and the perpetrator is apprehended, I'll be able to stay true to my philosophy of fairness, justice, and compassion even if my emotions scream out to the contrary.
I wonder alot about your life, Nagarjuna. Your life growing up, your education, your parents, your family, your friends.
You remind me some of my oldest brother. Not for the reasons I wrote in my email to you, but for the fact that even though we all lived through hell, he just walked away. Well, ran away would be the better word. My mother was in jail, fighting for her future, and he left her there. Turned his back on her after she defended him all his life. I guess what I think is that you and my brother live your lives with "blinders" on. Your life sounds as if it has always been peachy keen. And even though my brothers wasnt, he always felt he was better than everyone else, and walked away like life is just a piece of cheery cake. I will actually be very happy for you if you never had devastation occur in your life.
Have you ever had to show compassion and fairness for someone who has harmed you or someone you love yet, Nagarjuna?
Denise, as I've admitted before, I've been fortunate never to have been the victim of serious crime or to be close to someone who was. And, as I've also admitted, this inexperience may make me less compassionate toward crime victims such as Jaycee Dugard than you and other commenters on this site are, although I do feel compassion for her and her family.
But, as I've asked before, does this invalidate my arguments regarding the perpetrators of these crimes, or somehow mean that even if my arguments may be sound, I'm nevertheless not qualified to make them until I or a loved one IS a victim?
I really don't believe so. Do you?
I don't know how I would feel about Phillip Garrido if I had a young daughter, and especially if she'd been kidnapped and raped by a pedophile. And I will never know, because I don't have a daughter. Even if I weren't the old fart that I'm rapidly becoming, I wouldn't want to bring a child into this overpopulated and fuc*ked up world, and I almost see it as an act of selfishness for anyone to intentionally procreate, especially if they lack the ready financial and other means to raise the child well.
But, as I've said before, I believe that the philosophical and moral arguments I've been making here are sound, and I would hope that if I or someone I loved were a victim of a terrible crime, I would be able to rise to the level of greatness that I occasionally see in other victims or their loved ones, and feel compassion for the perpetrator and urge that he or she be treated appropriately but humanely and without hatred.
Denise,
I hope that my previous comment demonstrates that I am far from being a Pollyannish character who thinks that life is just "peachy keen." There is a part of me that hates this world because it's filled with so much ugliness, and hates people, including myself, because we are so hateable at times for the way we think and act.
But I subscribe to the psychological theory that we are not monolithic entities but a kind of community of subselves with differing and even conflicting thoughts and feelings and desires. And I believe that the highest subself in me calls me to live according to my philosophical understanding, moral precepts, and values, and that my highest purpose in this otherwise meaningless trip from the maternity ward to the crematorium is to do this and, in the words of St. Paul, "Love and do what you will."
And this doesn't just mean love the people who are easily lovable, but also the people who are anything but lovable, including the people that society despises most. If we don't strive to love or at least feel compassion for everyone, if we go on drawing lines in the sand between those we love and those we hate, and we walk around in fear and hate and conduct relentless witch hunts for the monsters among us, we might as well just put a gun to our heads and pull the damn trigger now.
But Nagarjuna, if we have your type of compassion and mercy and understanding for people with criminally sick minds, we will not have to put guns to our heads and pull the triggers ourselves. Those poor creatures with the sad little mental illnesses will do it for us. :)
I hope it never happens to you, but I am so, so, ever so curious as to what you would do, if you are attacked, beaten and robbed while walking to your car in some downtown parking lot, or even worse, a home invasion robbery. Where the robbers are so lazy, they make YOU carry your own junk to the moving van for them. lol
Then they tie you up, torture you and your family. Leave you to watch them murder your loved ones, and let you live. I hope I never have to know the answer to that question, but I am curious. Because we all know, home invasion robbers are very sick.
I apologize. I missed the first comment that you had said that if you ever were to become a victim, you would hope to rise to the greatness that some victims can find it in their hearts to forgive.
On one hand, I understand you. I really do. I have said many times, not only on this blog, but to many persons face to face, that I believe that many people do not really have control of committing their crimes, and many regret it immediately afterwards.
But I will never agree with parole for violent criminals. And I will never be agreeable with paying for them to live long, healthy lives behind bars or elsewhere.
If the only humane thing to do is to keep them locked up, then let them work their own gardens and grow their own food. Let them sit in the dark at nights, with no electricity. Let them wash their own laundry, in a bucket of water that would be doled out to them each day. Maybe we can be humane and give them 2 buckets, because we wouldnt want them to die of thirst, of course. If they cant work to survive behind bars, then it will be their own faults if they die.
I know you will say that some of them do not have the mental capacity to perform these tasks. But I say that a criminal mind is ingenious, and will always find ways to survive.
If I needed to protect myself or a loved one from an attack, I would fight back as ferociously as I could. If someone broke into my home while I was there, I would shoot first and ask questions later. But these would be spur of the moment decisions fueled by my instinct to preserve and defend innocent life and, perhaps, by spontaneous rage. But after a suspect has been apprehended and is subsequently subjected to the "wheels of justice," there is no need for spontaneous blind rage or self-protective lethality of action.
And if we were all able to love more and hate less, I truly believe that there would be far fewer criminals than there are now to threaten us and our families.
AHA! You said..."And if we were all able to love more and hate less, I truly believe that there would be far fewer criminals than there are now to threaten us and our families"
But how can love or hate have anything to do with any of it, IF, like you say, criminals have ILLNESSES that cause them to have no control of what they do anyhow.
wow! finally, I have finished reading all of these posts and am able to write one myself. Also I have came here upon curiosity. It is funny to me how many of you have such vivid and different point of views of this terrible incident that has taken place. I also was one to come here and at first planned to write hateful and horrid things about this man and his wife, but that wouldnt be getting me anywhere considering they wouldnt be able to read it themselves.pity. instead I will be smart and write them letters to their prison cell, which would be much easier to get my word out. only if i decide to waste my time and my hand to do so. it seems there are only so many followers on here anymore, apparently the rest werent intelligent or creative enough to continue meaningful conversations about the realities of this issue at hand. Well where do I begin? there is so much to say. I myself am a mother, tho I have not been one for extremely long I am able to say I have enough common knowledge about this world, and have seen enough haenous crimes in my time to put my two cents in about this. Tho I want to spew a long list of hatred to this couple I know it wont help myself nor them in doing so. I do feel they deserve to be punished for their actions, in a court of law, with a fair trial. tho now I doubt they are going to get much of that due to what information the media has given to the world. Boy what we all have evolved to become! To all you god fearing folks, I am proud to admit I am an atheist, not that I go around praising it to people, but I will start a thesible argument against those that boast of the good lords work and how we came to be. Such sheep you all are, always needing to follow and have something to find faith in. if we all could only lead ourselves to find only faith within this world would be a much better place because we wouldnt have to worry about our god judging us, only we would be judging ourselves! To those of you who say you are here to catch a predator, here is not the place,the real world is, on your street, in your curch and around your schools is where you should be hunting. Yes the internet is a portal to such terrible acts, but if you knew about your sex offender registry sites and your familywatchdog.us , and used true sluething skills you would find what you are looking for. bragging about it also says something about yourself,you are not hunting, you possibly are one of those pedofiles, hiding behind the facade of a "catcher". And last but least to those of you agreeing with these sick individuals, either you are just pretending and adding fuel to the flame to gain satisfaction from all these people writing hate notes or you yourself have a terrible problem and deserved to be caught and punished for your sick twisted process of thinking. and might I add, I am not here to spark an argument with any of you who continue to post your thoughts, I am only using my right to freedom of speech and explain how my mind works and show a bit of where i come from. I hope some of you get a little bit of different perspective from my writings and use it to your good will. not godbless but goodnight.
Denise--
"But how can love or hate have anything to do with any of it, IF, like you say, criminals have ILLNESSES that cause them to have no control of what they do anyhow."
Great question! The short answer is that hatred, lack of love, and other factors in a vulnerable person's upbringing and environment can make him sick or make him sicker than he would be otherwise.
Born--
I'm not aware of anyone here who has "agreed" with the terrible crimes Garrido committed. We have all condemned those crimes and urged that Garrido spend the rest of his life in prison or be executed for what he's done.
"goblinbee was totally speaking about me here. lol"
Ha! Denise, I actually was not thinking about you, but I know all of us have had our thinking shaped by our experiences, and even warped. And most people (myself included) do not tend to think about an issue first. We first feel our emotions, and then we hunt around for arguments to back up our emotions.
I don't know much about Cheyvonne Molina. I saw a clip of her doing an interview, wherein she said she thought Nancy Garrido was the mastermind. But it seemed more like she was just being sensational, or blowing off steam, or showing off, or saying something off the top of her head more than that she even believed it. I wasn't sure what to make of it.
goblinbee,
I hope they rocked in a good way :) Thank you!! if I am interpreting your comment correctly. I like reading your comments as well.
Nagarjuna,
"Unhinged" I like that!!! I think that was a great analogy of what I was trying to convey. I guess accusations and harassment falls into this list of "pedophile catching."
Denise,
It was mistakenly forgotten ;) I was quoting the great Pedophile catcher Teresa.
I am not a big fan of Spanish Inquisition, but they knew the proper way of dealing with creatures like Garrido...
I'm a pedo catcher myself. I caught one when I was a kid... Wait, or could it be she caught me? ... Okay, I'm confused.
But I sure got stories to tell from that experience.
BrendaStar, yes, rocked in a good way. And thanks to you too. :)
A little about myself:
I think this will be post number 1957, my birth year. I will be 52 this month.
I have been married twice.
Husband #1 is still a good friend, and the father of my incredible children (now ages 30, 27, and 23).
Husband #2 is the love of my life.
My kids are all adventurous and high-spirited. I have managed to maintain good relationships with them since they were born. This has not always been easy.
My oldest served time for non-violent crimes when he was in his early 20s (felony drug convictions).
I'm from a family with six kids. My parents were physically, verbally, emotionally, and psychologically abusive (everything but sexually; I am grateful). When my first child was born, I swore I would break the cycle of violence. I remember the day I made the promise to myself, not knowing if I could keep it.
I did.
He's so lonely all his aka's come out to play with themselves, when there is no available losers to play with him. What a Freak of Nature. What's the matter, you don't have anyone to stroke your twisted ego anymore. Can't wait a whole day. What a loser, you actually deserve your own twisted company. Yes. We Know.
I dont believe i said anything about anyone agreeing to these crimes. I dont believe anyone in their right mind would agree to them in anyway. and nilax, what is wrong with this picture here? you must be mentally unstable.get some help for everyones sake.
Born, I guess I didn't understand or I misinterpreted the following passage from your previous comment:
"And last but least to those of you agreeing with these sick individuals, either you are just pretending and adding fuel to the flame to gain satisfaction from all these people writing hate notes or you yourself have a terrible problem and deserved to be caught and punished for your sick twisted process of thinking."
Goblinbee,
I'm glad you've been able to transcend your upbringing. One wonders how people like yourself are able to do this while others are not.
I would refer anyone who is struggling with issues of sexual addiction in their own lives to check out http://saa-recovery.org/
Please don't slam me for suggesting this. I make no excuse or defense for these monstrous acts of Garrido. Often times children who are horribly abused sexually and violently grow up to do the same. Victims become perpetrators. It's not a defense, its a a fact. Addiction and mental illness plague us, but there is HOPE and HELP for those who seek it.
There is help if you struggle with your own addictions. Pornography, violence, illicit affairs, prostitution, etc. Addiction is PROGRESSIVE *and* cunning and baffling and powerful. If you have read this far, you may have some concerns about yourself or people close to you. There is HELP. There is HOPE. YOu can bring this condition to a point of healing in your life. This guy, well, he's way far gone, but YOU, you may need a little help now. I've seen many sex addicts and ex-offenders get incredible healing and recovery. As a survivor, I care. Get help, before its too late!
Check it out: http://saa-recovery.org/
Also, if you have a partner you worry may have some degree of sexual addiction, or are the child of sex addicted parents, or a parent of a sex addict, there is help for you too! You are not alone. www.cosa-recovery.org
Sex addication is as misunderstood today as alcoholism was 100 years ago. Progress is being made slowly. Patrick Carnes s a great author to read if you want to know more about the nature of this disease and some modes of treatment.
God bless you all, especially those of us in and/or recovering from intense sexual trauma in your lives. I pray for you every day.
Peace
"It's not a defense, its a a fact."
Well-stated, Ami. Although, when I really think about it, I wonder if the difference between excuse and explanation isn't more semantic than substantive.
blah blah blah
Nagarjuna, I do still feel the effects of my upbringing, the twisting of my soul. I am the bonzai.
My parents were abusive with all of us, but they were particularly harsh and punitive with two of my siblings, the ones on either side of me age-wise. These were the two that acted out more, were more confrontational, were less willing to be malleable. I think it might have been even more traumatic for me to watch the abuse heaped upon them than it was to experience my own. I can still feel the same sharp, helpless feeling I used to feel when I see others suffer.
My parents divorced when I was four but always lived fairly close to each other (a 20-30 minute drive); we went to my dad's every other weekend. In my mind, my father had no redeeming qualities and my feelings about him have always seemed fairly straightforward and uncomplicated. My relationship with my mother is much more complex. She is a very bright, funny, creative, and affectionate person--I have many wonderful memories from my childhood. Which maybe made her explosions all the more terrifying--she could be so irrational, so unpredictable, so emotionally immature. And she had such a towering rage. Maybe she would be considered to have a mental illness or to be mentally unstable; I really don't know how to think about or categorize these things.
The first time I heard about Stockholm Syndrome was in connection with Patty Hearst back in the 70s. The concept made perfect sense to me at the time, and I wonder if that was because of my upbringing. I had a mother who I depended on for all of my physical needs--love, food, warmth, shelter--a mother who could be either incredibly loving or incredibly dangerous. What must this do to the developing psyche of a child? You are bonding with the very person who also damages you. Strange. But I wonder if there isn't something of this dynamic in every parent/child relationship. There is such a power differential, and the parent does the withholding--of time, attention, privileges, approval, etc. I guess the kid has the power to withhold compliance, and if they are strong enough (or crazy enough?), they do.
Believe it or not, I am a rather cheery person! So enough of the heavy for now.
Oh Yeah, Oh Yeah:
NEW YORK (CBS) Nancy Garrido, who is accused of kidnapping and holding Jaycee Lee Dugard captive for 18 years, is getting a harsh jailhouse welcome.
Photos: The Search For Jaycee
Photos: Jaycee Lee Dugard Found Alive
Photos: Inside Jaycee's Terror Tent
Other inmates are threatening to rape and kill the 54-year-old Garrido, sources tell CBS News, and she is being kept in isolation for her own protection.
They also report that Garrido, who once had a full compound, including her convicted rapist husband Phillip Garrido, their alleged kidnap victim Dugard and her two daughters, is feeling "very lonely," and now spends most of her time reading the bible.
Poor Nancy. Maybe we should cheer her up with a gift basket.
Nancy Garrido and Phillip Garrido are charged with 29 felonies including kidnapping, rape and false imprisonment associated with the 1991 abduction of 11-year-old Dugard and keeping her in the backyard of their Antioch, Calif. home.
According to former San Francisco prosecutor Michael Cardoza, who spoke with Jeff Glor on The Early Show, Nancy Garrido is merely getting the jailhouse welcome which prisoners reserve only for those who have committed the most heinous crimes.
"In a prison system," Cardoza said, "there is a certain code of morality, and this type of crime ranks at the very, very bottom. So it doesn't shock me either one of them has been threatened with death or the other type of thing, the rape, whatever else they've been threatened with.”
comments:
NEW YORK (CBS) Nancy Garrido, who is accused of kidnapping and holding Jaycee Lee Dugard captive for 18 years, is getting a harsh jailhouse welcome.
Photos: The Search For Jaycee
Photos: Jaycee Lee Dugard Found Alive
Photos: Inside Jaycee's Terror Tent
Other inmates are threatening to rape and kill the 54-year-old Garrido, sources tell CBS News, and she is being kept in isolation for her own protection.
They also report that Garrido, who once had a full compound, including her convicted rapist husband Phillip Garrido, their alleged kidnap victim Dugard and her two daughters, is feeling "very lonely," and now spends most of her time reading the bible.
Poor Nancy. Maybe we should cheer her up with a gift basket.
Nancy Garrido and Phillip Garrido are charged with 29 felonies including kidnapping, rape and false imprisonment associated with the 1991 abduction of 11-year-old Dugard and keeping her in the backyard of their Antioch, Calif. home.
According to former San Francisco prosecutor Michael Cardoza, who spoke with Jeff Glor on The Early Show, Nancy Garrido is merely getting the jailhouse welcome which prisoners reserve only for those who have committed the most heinous crimes.
"In a prison system," Cardoza said, "there is a certain code of morality, and this type of crime ranks at the very, very bottom. So it doesn't shock me either one of them has been threatened with death or the other type of thing, the rape, whatever else they've been threatened with.”
More comments:
Karma, you evil woman. Payback for the horrors and un-ending trauma you and your SOB husband inflicted first on Jaycee, then her daughters. What did you expect-the inmates there were to have a tea party upon your arrival? And if you did get raped and assaulted, who cares? (I hope you get worse, personally.) Wasn't that the same pain you heaped upon a helpless 11 yr. old girl? Suck it up, witch, and face the outrage and anger the actions of you and your twisted husband have caused upon the public.
More:
I have No. Sympathy. Whatsoever.
More:
I have the ultimate gift for Nancy: It's a beautiful chair that contains a state of the art electrocial system, beautiful and matching wrist and ankle restraints, and a helmet to protect your brains. Have a seat Nancy where you can experience true "lonilness" because you are done. If I have my facts right, Phillip will sit in the chair just before you do. You are both so done it's not even funny. I am truly sick of hearing about these two people. You did it, you got caught, now deal with it.
It is wonderfully amazing, everyone is in agreement
Ami, there are untold numbers of people out there struggling with temptation to molest or rape. You're right to urge them to seek help. But it doesn't surprise me that many can't bring themselves to do it because of the way they're demonized, ostracized, hated, and condemned not only when they act out their urges but also when they simply FEEL those urges and try to resist them. What's more, how many can afford the intensive psychotherapy they need to overcome these urges even if they could find a therapist they can trust?
goblinbee...the last 2 or 3 lines of your mini autobiography brought tears streaming down my face. But in a happy emotional way. That was kind of beautiful and touching.
Nagarjuna,,,I knew you would say that about lack of love and one's upbringing. I guess you are right, in a sense. But my upbringing, and we now know, goblinbee's were not pretty. And we are proof that a harsh childhood is no excuse for violence. Goblinbee and I had a choice of different roads to take. I actually think that drugs are to blame for most crimes and criminal acts.
Nilax. No. Please. No more stories.
"I have No. Sympathy. Whatsoever."
No, Freak, you've made it very clear that you are filled with hatred and sadistic thoughts. Not only that, but you seem proud of it. Well, go ahead and trumpet your hate and pride and spin your fantasies of torture and pain. But someday maybe you'll ask yourself, "How is this helping Jaycee and her family? And how is it helping me to feel this way and reinforce these feelings by wallowing in them? And maybe you'll eventually come to the realization that you're eating yourself alive with these feelings and actions and making the world a darker place when what it really needs is more and more light.
ok
I want to kill Phillip Garrido, says kidnap victim Jaycee Lee Dugard's dad
The biological father of kidnap victim Jaycee Lee Dugard said he wants to kill the sicko who held her captive for 18 years.
"I'd love to get my hands on [Phillip] Garrido and kill him," Kenneth Slayton, 64, told the Daily Mirror of London.
He and Terry Probyn split while she was pregnant with Jaycee, and he has never met his daughter.
Garrido and his wife, Nancy, kidnapped then-11-year-old Jaycee from a South Lake Tahoe, Calif., bus stop in 1991 and kept her captive in a hovel behind their Antioch, Calif., house, police said.
Garrido repeatedly raped Jaycee, fathering two daughters with her.
Defense lawyer Gilbert Maines said Nancy Garrido insists she was a victim, too - so afraid of her husband that she made sure Jaycee didn't escape during the five months he was in jail for a parole violation in 1993.
"He doesn't have to be there physically," Maines told ABC's "Good Morning America."
Meanwhile, Kenneth Slayton Jr., 41, was stunned to learn Jaycee was his half sister. "I had no idea I even had a half sister until my full sister called and told me the other night," Slayton Jr. told the Daily News.
As I was saying everyone but you Freak want it this way
"And we are proof that a harsh childhood is no excuse for violence."
Denise, I think it's wonderful that you and Goblinbee have turned out the way you have despite your difficult or even hellish upbringings. But let me respond to your point with a metaphor. Most people don't get really sick when they're stung by a bee, but some do. Should the former take credit for their reaction to a sting and the latter accept blame for theirs?
"As I was saying everyone but you Freak want it this way"
And what good does this "wanting" do anyone?
It lets the government know we are sick of you and your excuses
Denise, I enjoy your tender heart and your open mind.
Sick of ME? What do you want the government to do to ME, and why?
Can you see how your emotions are sweeping away your reason?
Back to crime and punishment:
I never relate much to people wanting to see a criminal raped by the other prisoners in jail. It seems odd that people think this is what other prisoners are "for." To mete out punishment, to do their dirty work. Hopefully the prisoners have lives and agendas of their own. Those agendas MIGHT include raping other prisoners, but it seems very indelicate to expect that of them. Pushy, even.
The other thing I've never understood is why if you hate someone you would want to get your private parts anywhere near them. Maybe it is just more evidence that people don't think highly enough of themsleves.
"The other thing I've never understood is why if you hate someone you would want to get your private parts anywhere near them."
Now THAT'S funny, Goblinbee? :-) :-) :-)
Do you want to get YOUR private parts "near" Phillip and Nancy Garrido, Freak, or do you just want to watch someone else get THEIRS near them?
I am way past emotional. It is time to act
I meant, "Now that's funny Goblinbee! :-) :-) :-)
"Act" HOW, Freak?
it is not so much getting these peoples private parts near them, it is the knowing that they got what they dished out.... in this disgusting case, nothing could ever be dished out as disgusting as it was given for 18 f'n years. Your sympathies for this freak makes all you sympathizers just as freaky. You all make so many sick. go back and read from the beginning, read the posts on newspapers articles. The people of this Country and all of Europe are posting. Everyone but you freaky people want an end to it. Your sympathy goes on deaf ears anymore. In fact you become the perpetrators. You are the ones with ugly cold hearts. Your sympathy for these people deserves for you to live amongst them, not hte rest of us
Denise, as far as I know, drugs played no part in my parents' behaviors or parenting styles. I am not aware of any illicit drug they ever took, and no abuse of prescription drugs either. My mother did not drink at all. My father drank socially, but not once in front of us kids (I found out much later). He did not even keep beer in the house.
"it is not so much getting these peoples private parts near them, it is the knowing that they got what they dished out."
And where is the REAL satisfaction in seeing someone treated with the same sick depravity with which he treated someone else? Isn't it bad enough that it happened once? Why should it happen again?
Who said I or anyone needed to see it. Stop putting words in my mouth. I see you do that to everyone. It is enough to know they get it.
You are the one defending these monsters. Put little old monster with younger monster. Problem solved. You all need to live with yourselves and leave the innocent public out of it.
Your way leaves all monsters out here in the public to attack us. Why. You must enjoy it. You are a freak
"Your sympathy for these people deserves for you to live amongst them, not hte rest of us"
I don't have kids, and I doubt that a pedophile who likes little girls would have any sexual interest in an old guy like me. :-) But, yes, I DO feel sympathy for Garrido. He TOO is a victim of sickness. How can anyone NOT feel sympathy for anyone victimized by sickness? Isn't THAT the epitome of cold-heartedness?
Gariddo sick. Excuse more like it.
"Your way leaves all monsters out here in the public to attack us."
MY "way"? What "way" is that? My "way" is to quarantine him from society for the rest of his life or execute him. How does THAT put him "out here in the public to attack us"?
Freak, you either need to clean your glasses, take some reading lessons, or see a therapist about this profound irrational streak of yours.
Do you REALLY mean to suggest that a guy who wants to rape little girls, kidnaps one off the street in front of onlookers, holds her as his sex slave for eighteen years fathering two children with her and holding them captive as well, and finally gets caught when he takes them all out to a major university campus to distribute incoherent religious leaflets, bringing himself to the attention of campus police is anything BUT sick?
Yes. Egotistical. Scoffing. Forgetting his ability to get caught maybe. Sick - No Heartless is no cause to blame illness. You give me proof he was sick. then you may stand up for him. But you have none. No other rapist has this proof either. Look it up.
"YOU need to go fuck yourself."
If I could do THAT, I could be a STAR in the porno industry.
"Don't tell me that I need to learn to do anything."
Well, clearly, someone needs to give you some good advice, and I'm doing it. I hope you take it.
"You are alone in your quest to protect yourself or someone very close to you who you want to SAVE."
Wrong again. I'm not a pedophile and no one close to me is, so far as I know or even suspect.
i want to put a red hot poker up Garrido's anal cavity.
oh, sorry, i forgot, he will get plenty anal action in San Quentin prison.
"You give me proof he was sick."
Have you ever heard the expression, "The proof is in the pudding." In this case, substitute "perversion" for "pudding."
Tell me, Freak, if a guy who does all the things I just enumerated that Garrido did isn't sick, what in tarnation IS he? What more proof of his sickness do you need than THAT?
"i want to put a red hot poker up Garrido's anal cavity."
I'll bet you DO, Dr. Dr. I'll just bet you DO.
Ok then if the proof is in the pudding, then the proof is that this monster horribly committed foul, disgusting hurtful acts on a little girl as she grew into womanhood and on. He deserves the same. There is proof he did this. You have no PROOF he is sick. You just enjoy this to much I think.
he deserves the red hot poker and then the same acts he committed on his victims
"he proof is that this monster horribly committed foul, disgusting hurtful acts on a little girl as she grew into womanhood and on. He deserves the same. There is proof he did this."
Yes, Freak, that IS the proof. He did horible, foul, disgusting things to that innocent little girl that only a SICK person could do. And now you want to TORTURE him for his sickness? That sounds pretty sick to me as well. But as long as you just think and feel this way and don't act it out in some manner, you can thank your lucky stars that you aren't as sick as people like Garrido who take their depraved thoughts "on the road," so to speak.
"You have no PROOF he is sick."
Once again, WHAT additional "proof" do you NEED? If Garrido wasn't sick to do all those terrible things, what WAS he?
Think, Freak, think!
Think Pedophile Think - you sarcastic fuck. You Are Such A FREAK
The bastard needs to be punished. Go spout your crazy ass theory that he is sick and needs the compassion to your toilet.
Teresa had it right. He is nothing but selfish. You are the same
Sarah had it the same. You are a fool
"Think Pedophile Think - you sarcastic fuck. You Are Such A FREAK"
How old are you, Freak? I'm hoping that your angry foolishness can be charitably attributed to the immaturity of youth. If not, you've got an even bigger problem that I supposed, and the advice I gave you earlier becomes even more urgent.
Now, please, cool down young man (or woman) and tell me in calm,reasoned, and respectful terms how my argument is "crazy ass," why and how Garrido "needs to be punished" for being the sick man that he obviously is?
Now, take a deep breath, relax, and show your elders some respect, OK. I don't want to have to turn you over my knee and spank you. :-)
Then again, that might be kinda fun, and you just might like it. :-)
I wonder where Teresa has disappeared to for the past couple of days ? (wink)
Wink...wink! :-)
Oh fuck off you idiot. I will not sit here and let you continue spouting your crap to me for days like you have. I am to smart for that, and certainly not as lonely and bored with life to do so as you have done. You are nothing to take serious. Someone just needed to tell you what a jackass you are.
Calm down my ass. You are one sick fool thinking it is okay to attack those who wish to punish this man and all like him. You are nothing. Done here. I have a life I am going to enjoy now.
Why do you not find out Tara aka Nag. She left you a link to do so a few pages back. 3 or 4 lines down!
"Why do you not find out Tara aka Nag. She left you a link to do so a few pages back. 3 or 4 lines down!
"
Did you ? I must have missed it
It is so funny how Nag is the only person ever in a conversation until he gets stuck. It is true, then when he does not have an answer his aka's start posting. Such time frames are astounding.
Definition
Paranoia is an unfounded or exaggerated distrust of others, sometimes reaching delusional proportions. Paranoid individuals constantly suspect the motives of those around them, and believe that certain individuals, or people in general, are "out to get them."
Definition Bitch Pedophile:
Nagarjuna/Tara/Brenda/Goblinbee
Worth reading
http://www.anger-management-techniques.org/
I wonder how the reaction would of been if Garrido had been black, asian, mexican, or an Albino.
"I wonder how the reaction would of been if Garrido had been black, asian, mexican, or an Albino."
It would not have affected in any way my previous posts.
I highly doubt that.
What have I not had "an answer" for, young man? I've had plenty of answers, and YOU'RE the one who hasn't had anything to say in reply except how I'm a pedophile making "crazy ass" "excuses" for myself, yadda yadda, yadda. :-)
And now you're trotting out the old chestnut that I'm playing the sock puppet game. :-)Silly boy!
Come off it, young man! Show your elders and superiors some respect. Don't make me figuratively turn you over my knee and redden your butt cheeks with my righteously heavy hand! :-)
I have already said that the "person" who committed this terrible crime should spend the rest of their NATURAL life in prison.
I am against capital punishment.
How would the colour, creed, religion of the person make any difference.
"You are nothing. Done here."
Bye, Freak. Or is it Teresa? Or Teresa's son, perhaps? The little coward who got spanked last time he dared show up here and went into hiding? Go lick your wounds and then come back and try again under a NEW id. :-)
You sick piece of fucking shit. You will die the most painful death. You do not deserve to live, you are scum. And when you die, you will be going straight to fucking hell. You ruined a family for 18 years, and now its your turn to feel that pain. I just hope you are repeatedly raped, bashed and abused in jail for as long as possible. On behalf of mankind, fuck you.
ManKIND? Ya gotta be kidding?
Dr. Webb, if you are still there. Have you ever heard of Lorenzo Michael Murphy Odone or (ALD).
Now there is a sickness worthy of compassion, care and concern. What the fuck kind of people are these in here.
Teresa couldn't "bitch slap" herself out of a wet paper bag with a tear in it. But I'll bet she's slapped you around some. So much in fact that your brain's rattling around inside your skull. :-)
Anyway, I'll spare your butt cheeks a further reddening for now. I got places to go and things to do. I'll let my sock puppets take care of you. :-) Maybe they'll be gentler than I've been. :-)
Bye, everyone.
nagajuna
Have a pleasant evening !
Hello Tara, I am happy to read you again finally.
There is nothing I care to comment on this evening. Just wanted to let Tara know I was missing her and I am happy to see her. :)
Well, I guess there is one thing I would like to say. I do not believe that a sick and twisted sex abuser would really feel harmed by the "vengeance" that some of the people here suggest for the Garridos. I mean, come on now. "I hope the prisoners rape you till blah blah?" I actually think that Garrido is probably hoping the same thing.
With that said, I have to say that I am guilty of wishing the prisoners would kill the man that killed my sons mother. I wouldnt be happy, as I think murder is always a sad thing. But I would feel relief, and I would know that he also would never be able to breathe fresh air again, the same as his victim, my friend, will never again. And also, he wouldnt be freed in 7 years.
Goblinbee, I did not mean to say that your parents actions were caused by drugs. When I read your stories of your parents, MUCH STRESS on their part actually came to mind. And I hate to admit this, but I think I maybe am similar to your mother, lol. I get so stressed out sometimes, and my 3 boys decide to fight and ignore me when I ask them to do something, all the while I am trying to figure out how to support them, and I "snap out" too. lol It doesnt happen much, but I am sure my children think I am crazy, nonetheless.
Drugs were very much a part of my parents lives. My father sold drugs actually. And both of my parents were users. But they tried so hard to keep us sheltered from it all. I knew nothing of their dealings with drugs and crime, until my early teens.
I was saying that I think most CRIMES, not abusive parenting skills, stem from drugs.
I credit my fathers abusive parenting, not to drugs, but to the idea that he really thought he was doing what was best for us. He wanted to raise us to be respectful, God fearing, productive, and law abiding adults. I am thankful for every beating and harsh word he ever gave me. Now I can balance the rights and wrongs of my upbringing while raising my own children.
Ah, Denise, I misunderstood.
I wonder what they were so stressed about...hmm...six kids?? And six kids in nine years, to boot. My mom always said she wanted twelve -- WHY??
I am not happy for any beating I received. It was completely unnecessary, as I was a compliant child. The beatings were so severe, and the infractions so tiny. But even then, I didn't think my mom was crazy. I didn't really think like that as a child. Although, I knew I didn't like my dad. That was weird too--not liking a parent.
By the way, Denise, I loved your vision of a prison where violent criminals grow their own food and do their own laundry (and sit at night in the dark!--that was just funny). It sounds productive; I wonder if there are any programs like that.
But goblinbee, look at the wonderful and awesome grown up you have turned out to be. I understand about hating the beatings. I hated them also at the time. I never understood how my father could say he loved me, and beat on me so bad. How can you hit something you love and live with each day, so severely? I actually felt that he enjoyed seeing us in pain.
My entire childhood, I believed my mother was THE COOLEST mother of all time! She let us do whatever we wanted to do. She actually slept most of the time. We would run to her after being punished or wronged by my father. Why, I do not know, because she never had any answers or comfort for us. But at least she didnt hit us.
But the day I gave birth to my daughter, and I set eyes upon my beautiful princess, I sadly, lost all respect for my mother. And I appreciated all of my fathers teachings. My father was wrong and he took his lessons for us to the extremes, Yes. But at least he put an effort into raising us. I feel that my mother went into a shell and hid. Both of my parents also had horrible childhoods. And in their defense, I had a little brother with a terminal illness. I am sure my parents had more pain and stress than I will ever be able to imagine. They did the best they could. But I feel my mother just couldnt do it. And my father over did it.
I remember wishing so much that I could live with my any one of my Aunts. My cousins had it made. They got so much freedom, could have their say with their parents, and never got hit. And most of them call prison their second homes, they are all on drugs, criminals. Crazy losers, really.
Nagarjuna, I just have a question for you. What if thos kids were yours? would you still be on the side of the fence you are right now? I just want to know.
And by the way, my vision of the ideal prison was not meant to be funny. I was very serious. My electricity might be disconnected soon. But they pay the prisons electric bill (running it up even higher for televisions and whatever else) with money taken away from the people that choose to work for a living.
And we all should know by now that nobody in this country really HAS to work. One of my best friends is on welfare. She has 3 kids (and is pregnant again), lives in the projects with her boyfriend, rent free. She doesnt pay her electric bill. She gets food stamps, medicaid, and also cash each month. She asks me always if I want to go to Cardinals games, Six Flags, shopping in St. Louis or Memphis, floating on the river, etc. I always have to tell her I cannot, because I either have to be at work, or when thats not the case, I do not have the money. But, amazingly, she always does, and always goes somewhere.
Abo, you ask a fair question. It's one I've answered before, but I can't blame you if you haven't read all of my considerable number of comments. :-) My short answer to your question is that I don't know how I'd respond to the Garrido story if I had kids, and especially if I had a young daughter who had been abused or worse. I'm sure I would feel even angrier toward Garrido than I do, and, perhaps, more tolerant of the hatred and outrage I see vented here than I have.
But I would hope that I could still stay true to my philosophy and moral principles and not let my emotions override them, and that I'd be making the same essential arguments that I've been making. And there ARE some people who are able to do this. I admire them tremendously.
Denise, I think there is a wide and fertile ground between the beatings you describe from your father and the disengagement of your mother.
It was this fertile ground I strove to raise my own children in. This does not mean they have had no problems--far from it--but it does mean we have always had good relationships.
And, yes, I did take your vision for prison seriously and thought it was a great idea. But each time I imagine all the prisoners sitting in the dark, it still hits my funny bone!
Well, at sunset, they should be finishing up their OWN dishes, laundry, etc. and rushing off to sleep since they would, ideally, have to wake at the crack of dawn for milking cows, gathering eggs, weeding gardens, etc. They wouldnt need lights or electricity at night anyhow. Farm work is not easy. Do you realize that there are many men and women farmers that work their butts off each day in order for the lazy good for nothing sponge prisoners to eat. It is pathetic really. Aggravating and it doesnt make sense.
Today I spoke with one of our city officials. She was at the gas station paying, while I was telling the cashier (my daughters friend) that I was trying to sell my camaro and my rental house. The city lady asked me if I was planning on going somewhere. Am I leaving? Why am I selling everything. I lied to her and said, "No. Im not going anywhere, but I have decided that not having anything in life is the better financial plan. I am thinking about quitting my job also." Of course that is not true, unless I get the opportunity to move to Peru, but she understood.
I am happy to hear that you and your children have good relationships. I always worried that my daughter would look back and have no respect for me and have anger for me. But luckily, she is my very best friend. Which is not because I was such a great mother, but because she is such an incredibly awesome young woman.
"Well, at sunset, they should be finishing up their OWN dishes, laundry, etc. and rushing off to sleep since they would, ideally, have to wake at the crack of dawn for milking cows, gathering eggs, weeding gardens, etc."
This really is a wonderful idea. I wonder why it can't be done. Maybe because it is the hardened criminals we are talking about--the violent ones who should never be released--and it would be too dangerous to let them have shovels and hoes. But could they hurt anyone with their pail of water to wash their clothees in? You know, I'm afraid they could. I saw a movie once where an inmate slowly whittled the handle of her toothbrush into a sharp point and used it as a weapon, to escape. Imagine what they could do with a metal or plastic bucket!
Denise, what needs to happen so you can move to Peru? You may have said in an earlier post, but that was an age ago. :)
This time, goblinbee, you made me laugh, when you said it would be dangerous for them to have shovels and hoes. That is so true. And I already thought about the fact that some prisoners ARE on the more severe side of the state of mind that Nagarjuna speaks of, and probably would have difficulties functioning in a garden. But then, most criminals get so creative and "super human" when it comes to the street life. Im sure they can figure out how to get along and work together. And I think that if they realize this is the only source of food and survival for them, they will figure it all out, and know they have to work out a system, together, in order to survive.
You know, lol, I have been incarcerated a time or two myself. I learned so many unique ways of substituting something real, with something that was available (and safe) to us. Jail is like Gilligans Island almost, lol. Such useful imaginations people have when they are in a desperate situation. We used rubber erasers to pluck our eyebrows with. And we used the different colors in magazine pages as makeup. I learned so many tricks there. And shovels and hoes or not, if a prisoner wants to have a weapon, they will have one.
Oh gosh, goblinbee. You know? I wish I really knew what all I need to do in order to move to Peru. It all seems so complicated. I would have to sell my 2 houses. I would have to get rid of all of my furniture that I own. I would need to pay off all of my current debts. And I would have to have plenty of money in the bank to survive on for a time, until I established employment there. And also for the event of emergencies, or if we wanted to return home.
I will be giving up all that I have worked for here. Which I do not mind in the least. But the hardest parts will be to leave my grandson, my daughter, my mother (I love my mother dearly, regardless of anything in the past)and my brother. Also, my sons will have to leave their American education, their friends, our family.
I will leave my huge blessing of the job I have now.
I wish I could move to Peru for 6 months to a year, then return back to all I have now, prove to the INS that our relationship IS REAL!! and bring my husband home with me. But that is not possible. The purpose of living in Peru is to be with my fiance. My kids feel that he is their Daddy. My 7 year old actually tells people that he is Peruano. lol We have to correct him sometimes, and sometimes I just let him say it. But if I sell everything, quit my job, and move to Peru, I will not be able to meet the requirements of the INS when I return. I currently meet the requirements, and have gone bankrupt almost, going through the immigration application process and interviews. Only for them to question our relationship, and to request more and more from us.
I just want him here with us. I want him to receive his Visa so that we can freely live in Peru when we want, with his family. Then return here to be with my family part of the time. But at this point, I would live on an iceberg in the middle of the ocean with him, just to be with him.
Sick? Yes, Garrido is a sicko, no doubt. But sick in a way that he could not control the choices that built upon this incident since the day he kidnapped JC Dugard? I don't believe that at all.
The man maintained a home, with a wife and mother. He maintained a hidden compound, supplying it with the most basic of necessities, hid the truth of three innocent victims in his compound. He owned and ran a business. Designed this rediculous web site with legal protections. Etc, etc.
No, this person knew exactly what he wanted to achieve and how to achieve it. And he became so puffed up on his twisted, self-centered beliefs that he got careless. Thank god for that much.
That's just my opinion.
Yes I have heard of adrenoleukodystrophy. Another illness worthy of compassion is liver cancer, or amyotrophic lateral sclerosis (ALS - lou gehrigs disease), multiple sclerosis, or progressive supranuclear palsy.
Fuck Garrido. there is a difference between being ill, being sick (health), being sick (minded) and being a perv.
"Sick? Yes, Garrido is a sicko, no doubt. But sick in a way that he could not control the choices that built upon this incident since the day he kidnapped JC Dugard? I don't believe that at all."
Coonhound, I thank you for expressing your opinion and for doing it with with uncommon civility. You no doubt speak for most who have weighed in here and for almost everyone else. Indeed, if your opinion and mine were put to a popular vote, yours would surely win by a stupendous margin. :-)
You seem to be arguing that if someone isn't a stereotypical screaming maniac tearing out his hair in the middle of the public square, he isn't crazy or sick, or, at least, crazy or sick enough for us to absolve him of complete responsibility for his criminal actions and to refrain from punishing him accordingly.
But I'd like to ask you something, and I hope you'll reply and that we can discuss this in some depth. Who knows? You may help me to understand something I haven't understood before, or maybe, just maybe I'll help you to understand something new.
I'd like to begin by asking you (and anyone else here who shares your opinion) the following: If Garrido could have controlled himself well enough not to do the things he did, why do you suppose he didn't? That is, why do you suppose he didn't stop himself from acting on desires which I think we would all agree WERE sick?
"Fuck Garrido. there is a difference between being ill, being sick (health), being sick (minded) and being a perv."
WHAT, ultimately, IS that difference?
http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/09/15/california.kidnapping/index.html?eref=rss_latest
Police search Garrido home in connection with other abductions
# Story Highlights
# NEW: Police: "We are very interested in what might be behind walls, under flooring"
# Ilene Misheloff ,13, went missing in 1989; Michaela Garecht, 9, in 1988
# Police "unable to eliminate Phillip and Nancy Garrido" as possible suspects
# Garridos face total of 29 charges relating 1991 kidnapping of Jaycee Dugard
ANTIOCH, California (CNN) -- Investigators from two police agencies were searching the home of the Jaycee Dugard kidnapping suspects Tuesday in connection with two other unsolved abductions, authorities said.
Authorities search the home of Phillip and Nancy Garrido for evidence relating to other abductions.
Yes, Dr. Dr. they are searching, as well they should. But I hope you aren't too disappointed if they don't find anything.
I'm wondering if Jaycee or her daughters have told the authorities anything that would lead them to think that there have been other abductions or worse. Or whether there's any forensic evidence implying it.
Speaking of Jaycee, it is true that she's really scheduled to appear on Oprah Winfrey's show in a month or two, and that she's been offered a million dollars for it? If it is, what do you all think of that?
I believe he did it because he wanted to do it. Plain and simple.Is what he had done crazy? Sure it is, but that does not justify writing him off as mentally insane, or incompetent to understand right from wrong? I don't think so.
"I believe he did it because he wanted to do it. Plain and simple "
Really? Then let me ask you this: If the only reason he did it was because he wanted to, does this mean that YOU have done everything YOU'VE wanted to do in your life, or have you wanted to do things that you refrained from doing even though you wanted to do them?
Let's see...I'd love to have a drink right now, but won't bc I'm headed out the door. Would love to buy a new fall wardrob, but won't bc I have bills to pay.
So are all persons that kidnap, rape or kill a child automatically insane?
He got away with similiar actions in the past, he learned from his mistakes when he got caught in the past. He got a good taste and liked it, and chose to continue with his selfish, perverted ways.
Coonhound, so I guess your answer to my previous question is:
(1) We DON'T always do what we want to do.
(2) Therefore, Garrido did't do the things he did simply because he wanted to.
"He got a good taste and liked it, and chose to continue with his selfish, perverted ways."
WHY did he "like it" and choose to keep doing it
Bc he believed he was entitled to have what he wanted. He's a criminal.
"Bc he believed he was entitled to have what he wanted."
WHY did he believe that, and you (presumably) don't?
You Are Such A Freak,
Could you be more immature?? Now im a "Bitch Pedophile" Please... I see your brain is not working enough to actually rebuttal with an intelligent comment instead you result to name calling, harassment, and antagonizing behavior! Trust me, it doesn't take an idiot to figure out that you are ridiculous with your accusations. Your like a child you don't hear something you like and you throw a fit and call people names. It doesn't take an idiot to figure out your behaving like a toddler. I'm a mother and how dare you insult me in that manner. As well if you are going to speak to me try not using profanity as it makes you sound as ignorant as your comments are!!! If you cant even use your brain to come up with more useful words other then cuss words and name calling maybe you should go back to school and educate yourself further!!!!
You"ll have to ask him why he liked it. Living a lie or a double life is something people commonly do. The only reason that young lady is still alive is bc she did somethings right to survive her abuser. It probably prohibited other attacks due to that fact.
(Driving n typing)
COONHOUND!! Not to be rude, but this blog will be here when you are safely off of the road. The comments will remain, just the same. I think if you ask many people, some of them will believe that driving and texting, typing, or dialing numbers is a potential criminal act.
It is ok to wait even a day or two to respond to comments you wish to reply to. We all do it. We wait until we have a moment's free time to write here. Please think about the lives that you can affect by doing this. And please stop.
Coonhound, I appreciate the fact that you're going through the trouble of trying to answer me and drive at the same time. But I recommend that you don't answer anymore until you stop driving. That way you can drive more safely AND give more thought to your answers.
You said that Garrido did what he did "simply" because he "wanted to." I pointed out that the answer can't be that simple or we'd all always do what we want to when the fact of the matter is that we don't. So, there must be some additional reason why Garrido did what he wanted to and, yet, most of us don't do some things we want to. You replied that he did what he wanted to because he felt "entitled" to have it, and I asked you why he felt entitled to do what he did and you don't feel entitled to everything you want. And you replied that he felt entitled because he liked it.
Well then, let me ask you this: Do you feel entitled to everything you like? If not, why not?
Goodness, didn't he make a statement to the effect that "something good has came from this" or "will come of this?" That suggests to me that he knew his actions were wrong.
Now. Could he control his sick-o urges? It doesn't matter to me bc he was fully aware that he had done wrong and was doing wrong. He chose his path and covered it well.
Why are u so conviced that he's mentally ill to the degree that he shouldn't be held responsible for his crimes?
(I was typing at red lights, not while moving, but thanks for your concerns)
"Why are u so conviced that he's mentally ill to the degree that he shouldn't be held responsible for his crimes?"
Nagarjuna has never said Garrido should not be held responsible. He has only maintained that he should be dealt with humanely (i.e, NOT maimed or tortured). Nagarjuna has said repeatedly that he is in favor either of life imprisonment or even execution for Garrido.
I have to agree with what Coonhound said about Garrido maintaining a life, this blog, a business, etc.
Nagarjuna, I happen to know that I am not such a sane person myself. I have many hangups, and my mind has been damaged by many different factors. I have desperate moments, that I know I could so easily get away with robbing someone, or getting money fast. Our beloved little Paradise has made me very street smart, and I have a few tricks up my sleeve. But I never follow through with any of it. So what do you think about that? I do not even know if what I just said has any sense to you, or if there is any solid discussion in what I said at all. I guess the point I am trying to make is that, I am not completely sane. I do, can, and have had a criminal mind. If I committed hideous crimes, I could so easily fall back on my background as an excuse. Yet, I choose to stop myself from doing bad things.
I apologize if none of this made sense, I am speaking on the phone while writing this. (But Im not driving, lol)
"But at this point, I would live on an iceberg in the middle of the ocean with him, just to be with him."
Ahh...I love true love. Denise, I'm so sorry that it is so hard for the two of you to be together right now. How did you meet?, if you don't mind me asking. What languages do both of you speak?
"Why are u so conviced that he's mentally ill to the degree that he shouldn't be held responsible for his crimes?"
Let me clarify my position. I believe that Garrido should be quarantined from society and perhaps even executed for his crimes. Not because I think he should be "held responsible" for committing crimes he could have refrained from committing, which I don't believe he could have, but because it would be too dangerous to society and to him for him to be released back out into society, because I believe that society needs to feel reassured that justice has been done, and because I believe that lifetime incarceration or capital punishment might deter others from acting as Garrido acted.
"Now. Could he control his sick-o urges? It doesn't matter to me bc he was fully aware that he had done wrong and was doing wrong."
It REALLY doesn't matter to you if someone can't prevent himself from committing crimes motivated by his sick urges? What you REALLY seem to be saying is that because Garrido knew that what he wanted to do was wrong, he could have controlled himself and not done it, but didn't.
But my question to you is, Why would he do something he wanted or liked to do that he knew was wrong when a lot of us want or like to do things that we know are wrong and we end up not doing them?
"But I never follow through with any of it. So what do you think about that?"
Denise, I think it's great that you don't "follow through with any of it," and I also think you should ask yourself WHY you don't and share your answer with us.
By the way, I am Steve, and Steve is Nagarjuna. I'm not playing sock puppet games. :-)
My previous post is no more extreme or presumptous than Nag's post at 1:36pm today. If we are disputing the inhumane treatment of criminals, then there's no dispute. Of course he should be treated humanely. Only that will not be the common horn you will hear tooting at this blog. Furthermore I do believe that most people would agree that he should be treated humanely. But it will not be admitted to here. Get a grib on yourselves. You're on this man's blog, people are angry and disgusted to say the least! And it very muchs gets off with them wrong to read compassionate/understanding posts in defense of garrido's rights. And that's understandable, most people are posting their immediate feelings after reading his rediculous blog.
Oh, and who the heck has the time to read all your posts anyway!!!
I posted my opinion and ur body chose to respond...so go take a chill pill!
"And that's understandable, most people are posting their immediate feelings after reading his rediculous blog."
But one of the points I've been trying to make, although not as much now as initially, is that we would do better as individuals and as a society if we placed a filter of reason between our raw emotions and what we publicly express. When we react to something such as the Garrido story by "venting" our outrage and hate in the depraved ways we see here, we reinforce depravity in ourselves, others, and society as a whole.
"I posted my opinion and ur body chose to respond...so go take a chill pill!"
Speaking for myself, I'm not at all upset over our discussion, and I don't perceive anyone else to be. Again, I appreciate the civility and substance you've brought to the discussion.
"Oh, and who the heck has the time to read all your posts anyway!!! "
You must MAKE the time and read every one of the almost 2100 comments posted thus far or you are not qualified to comment here on our comments. :-)
We met through a mutual friend, but on the internet. She is a friend of mine from Sacramento, and we first spoke in an MSN Messenger 3-way chat. That was almost 5 years ago. I have to visit him in his country, because apparently God only preserved this chunk of land for the "special" American people. All other persons are to be shut out from this wonderful place of freedom, because sorry about their luck but God must have not loved them as much as He loved us Americans.
His natural language is Spanish. But he speaks several. I cannot name them all, but I know he speaks English, Italian, Norwegian, French and German. I, of course, speak English. I also speak Spanish. I can get by with Turkish, German, Italian, and Norwegian. And my doctor has promised to try to teach me the Hindi language, if I teach him Spanish. :)
My son has his first football game in 20 minutes. So Im off to cheer him on (and maybe embarrass him lol)
Have a great night everyone. God bless you all. Peace.
Excuse me...meant to say your buddy (nag/steve)
Well steve, I truely do believe that most people that have posted here really would agree with you but just not at this blog.
But from your previous posts, at least the ones I have read, I see a logic that says this in a nut shell...what garrido did was so "out there" that he had to of been insane.
Denise...what you have said makes perfect sense(imo), very honest.
"But from your previous posts, at least the ones I have read, I see a logic that says this in a nut shell...what garrido did was so "out there" that he had to of been insane."
Not quite, Coonhound. Let me rephrase your words: What Garrido did was terrible, but it was caused by a combination of mental illness and psychological deficiencies that made it impossible for him not to do what he did. Therefore, we should not hate him for what he did. Hate WHAT he DID if we have to hate something, but don't hate HIM. He too is a victim of his psychological problems just as Jaycee and her family have been. They all deserve compassion. We may need to quarantine people like Garrido from society to protect them and society, or we may even decide that we need to execute them, but we should do it with the fullest realization in our minds and hearts that we are dealing humanely with a sick or defective person and not hatefully and vindictively "punishing" him for the effects of his sickness.
Steve, sorry for speaking for you earlier. And I got it wrong! I think I am clearer about your position now.
(Do you prefer Steve or Nagarjuna?)
Steve, would it surprise you if garrido ended up in general population, rather than isolated safely in a psych ward somewhere?
"What you REALLY seem to be saying is that because Garrido knew that what he wanted to do was wrong, he could have controlled himself and not done it, but didn't."
But we all do things that are wrong. Sometimes we control ourselves, sometimes we don't. Sometimes we decide it is worth the risk or bad side effects, sometimes we don't. Garrido was probably controlling himself lots of the time.
Goblinbee, call me whichever you'd prefer. I chose the username Nagarjuna because he was a famous and very profound Buddhist philosopher I greatly admire. But my real name is Steve.
Coonhound--
"Steve, would it surprise you if garrido ended up in general population, rather than isolated safely in a psych ward somewhere?"
I would be shocked and dismayed if that were to happen. We all know what would happen to him if it did, and I believe that this would be a grave injustice.
"But we all do things that are wrong. Sometimes we control ourselves, sometimes we don't. Sometimes we decide it is worth the risk or bad side effects, sometimes we don't. Garrido was probably controlling himself lots of the time."
Good point, Goblinbee. But why do you suppose Garrido thought it was "worth the risk" to act out his sick desires? After all, it was a pretty big risk. Society's almost universal hatred, life in prison being despised and threatened by fellow inmates, possible execution, and so on and so on and so on.
I have a question.............Does Nagarjuna have a freaking job? Alwayz bumpn the gums?Do me a favor....SHUT THE FUCK UP!
Perv, don't make me spank YOU too! :-) Or is that what you want? :-)
All I am saying is Everyone knows that this fuck(Garrido) is the biggest pile of shit on the face of the earth. If anyone on here dosent agree then they have got to be that other pile in the meadow. Fuck all u registerd sex offenders may u all die a slow, miserable,aganizing death.Unless I catch up with u! N e wayz Nag. My dad alwayz told me "dont talk about it, be about it" and "trust no man"
Oh yeah if u still think u can spank me , U BETTER PACK A BIG ASS LUNCH!If u dont know now u know!
"All I am saying is Everyone knows that this fuck(Garrido) is the biggest pile of shit on the face of the earth."
I smell a sock puppet. :-) But whose sock puppet might it be? :-)
Perv, I don't know that Garrido is what you say he is. I say he's a sick and defective human being who shouldn't be hated or blamed for what his sickness made him do, even if he should be locked away.
"If anyone on here dosent agree then they have got to be that other pile in the meadow."
Pull up your pants, little masochist you. :-) You obviously enjoyed your spanking last night so much that you're back for more, and I don't want to indulge the FREAK in you. So, I'm going to take a different tack with you from this point on. I'm going to show you how an adult is supposed to act so that you can grow up an join our ranks instead of acting like a silly little boy.
"Fuck all u registerd sex offenders may u all die a slow, miserable,aganizing death.Unless I catch up with u!"
If you REALLY want to rape or torture all registered sex offenders or even see someone else do it, I urge you to seek therapy immediately.
"Oh yeah if u still think u can spank me , U BETTER PACK A BIG ASS LUNCH!I"
I may be several decades older than you, but I can still wield a heavy hand. :-) But, like I said, I don't want to spank someone anymore who obviously enjoys it far too much. So, just watch me and do what I do, and you'll learn how to come to a place like this and act like a sane and rational adult. :-)
"But why do you suppose Garrido thought it was "worth the risk" to act out his sick desires?"
I think risk-taking plays a large part in many animal behaviors--it is an evolutionarily advantageous strategy.
"I think risk-taking plays a large part in many animal behaviors--it is an evolutionarily advantageous strategy."
So, Garrido was compelled by an evolutionary drive to risk his life to satisfy his sick desires?
"So, Garrido was compelled by an evolutionary drive to risk his life to satisfy his sick desires?"
Perhaps. Thrills and rewards are by-products of risk-taking. We all get our thrills and rewards in different places.
Also, when we think we have been harmed, we get revenge.
I'm off for the evening! Will have to check back later. Ciao for now.
So, he was blamelessly "controlled" by his evolutionary drive rather than blamefully exercising control over it.
"Also, when we think we have been harmed, we get revenge."
Sometimes, but always?
Bye, Goblinbee. I have to go brush my cats and water the yard. See you later.
Talk about paranoid. Coonhound they think you are me and/or Tersa. LOL I have a job, Coonhound is not me, is a person of his/herself. Tersa is a person of herself, not me. LOL talk about paranoid.
But if you want to know who is really a so called sock puppet, check out Nag. Kind of proud of how that all happened :) His unsuccessful aka change. Nag wrote: "steve said...
By the way, I am Steve, and Steve is Nagarjuna. I'm not playing sock puppet games. :-)" LOL, little did he know that for two of his prior posts, his aka change didn't work, and he got stuck with his blog name.... which was never ever revealed before, except that Dr. Webb was good enough to let him know he knew who he was, and Nag couldn't get away from that. LOL.
Nag, you are such a fool and big game player, we couldn't resist forcing that out of ya.
Still into spanking huh. Don't think for one minute you've gotten one on with that childish bullshit. Yours is coming.
"Cat" huh.
Way off topic,,,and far better than all of the topics here so far...MY SONS TEAM KICKED BUTT!! lol 32-8. Woo Hoo, SON!!!! I am one proud Mommy. Ok, where are we now in the discussions? lol
I see alot of cussing, which I almost automatically skip over and do not bother to read, because to me, cuss words make anything said have less if not zero value after that. Well, a cuss word here or there is fine maybe. But all that ranting and raving cussing. 2 thumbs down. blah
"Denise, I think it's great that you don't "follow through with any of it," and I also think you should ask yourself WHY you don't and share your answer with us."
I can easily answer the question as to why I never follow through, Nagarjuna. I have so much love and faith in the Lord. I know that each time I suffer, He always will get us through our hard times. And also, He will bless us for enduring the hard times ourselves, without hurting others and giving them hard times, in order to make ourselves more comfortable.
I hope that made sense. I am so tired from screaming and hollering like a lunatic at the game. Oh my gosh, I am so happy and proud of my children. THANK YOU, JESUS, FOR GIVING ME THE ALMOST PERFECT FAMILY. Just one little Peruano addition, and we will be complete. :)
Good night everyone. Stay safe.
"Coonhound is not me, is a person of his/herself."
Has anyone said otherwise?
"LOL talk about paranoid."
There's no paranoia here. I don't care who you are. It would be nice to know that no one is secretly playing "sock puppet" games, but it isn't of earth shattering importance, especially if we stay focused on arguments rather than on those who make them.
"But if you want to know who is really a so called sock puppet, check out Nag. Kind of proud of how that all happened :) His unsuccessful aka change. Nag wrote: "steve said..."
There was no attempt at subterfuge. I posted a comment while logged into another Gmail account and, as soon as I realized it, I let everyone know who I was because I didn't want anyone to think I wasn't Nagarjuna.
"Nag, you are such a fool and big game player, we couldn't resist forcing that out of ya."
What have I said that's foolish, and what have you "forced" out of me?
"little did he know that for two of his prior posts, his aka change didn't work, and he got stuck with his blog name."
What name is that? What are you talking about? My "blog name" is Nagarjuna, and if you click on my username link here, it will take you to my profile page. It always has. So, not only have you not refuted my arguments, but your only strategy for dealing with this is apparently to make groundless attacks against me personally, and virtually everyone here can see that they're not working. Back to the proverbial drawing board with you.
"Still into spanking huh."
No, as I explained to "Pervkilla," I spanked you enough last night to turn your buttocks crimson, and the fact that you're still here begging for more indicates that you must like it. And since I'm magnanimous enough not to indulge your unhealthy masochism, I'm going to stop spanking you and start showing you by my illustrious example how to grow up and conduct yourself like a sane and rational man. :-) So, I expect your future comments to deal sanely, rationally, and substantively with my arguments and not consist of the ad hominem attacks they have so far.
Can you rise to the challenge, my young friend? Or are you older than you act?
Denise, congratulations to your son and his team!
"I can easily answer the question as to why I never follow through, Nagarjuna. I have so much love and faith in the Lord."
Suppose you didn't have that "love and faith in the Lord"? Are you saying you'd "follow through" then?
As for all the "cussing" and "ranting and raving" you say you've skipped over, I haven't done any cussing or ranting and raving, so I hope you've read all of my comments. :-)
Good night, Denise
you wish you would have had a chance to spank me don't you. LOL
do not assume my lack of responding to your bullshit "ill" "sick" theory or any of your other babble or rhetoric is anything less than intellect.
Truth is... steve is the first part of your screen name, and that is how it happened. :)
email name, steve....... LOL
I admit that I'm feeling alternately very sad and very angry over the fate of Annie Le. As I commented previously, she was, by all accounts, such a gifted and beautiful young woman. To think that someone would murder her in a Yale laboratory almost on the eve of what would have been one of the happiest days of her and her fiance's and family's lives is not only heartbreaking but infuriating. I hope about as much as I could ever hope for anything that the police arrest the culprit and that this person receives a life without parole or even a death sentence. There are indications that this may be well underway, although I don't agree with the media's release of the "person of interest's" name unless and until he's arrested and charged with the crime.
The powerful anger that I feel toward the perpetrator is a real challenge to what I've been arguing here. But I continue to uphold those arguments.
"do not assume my lack of responding to your bullshit "ill" "sick" theory or any of your other babble or rhetoric is anything less than intellect."
Could you clarify the meaning of that rather incoherent statement? Do you mean to suggest that your responses thus far to my arguments have demonstrated "intellect"? :-)
"Truth is... steve is the first part of your screen name,
So?
"and that is how it happened." :-)
That's how WHAT happened? I'm sorry to see that you're making less and less sense as you go along, and embarrassing yourself more and more.
You can do better than that, can't you, young man? If my arguments are "bullsh*t," please explain HOW they are. Stand up to the plate like a man.
"email name, steve....... LOL"
And the point of this inanity IS? In other words, what are you accusing me of, and what does ANY of it have to do with how my arguments are supposedly rhetorical bull manure?
Nagarjuna, u kill me. Are u serious? Dont talk about it,be about it! Remember that.
Nagarjuna's reasoning that Garrido is "sick" simply because he carried out these acts is flawed logic.
It is unreasonable to argue that something is fact simply because you can't imagine it isn't fact. This kind of argument is called "argument from incredulity". Ironically (considering some of Nagarjuna's previous posts) it is a very popular argument for the existence of God, as in "When you look at the stars and all creation, how can you believe that it happened without an intelligent creator - God?".
Garrido carried out these acts because he wanted to. He somehow enjoyed them. This is a preference not an illness.
The reasons for capital punishment as I see them (in diminishing value) are: to remove the offender from society - making us all safer, to deter others from similar behaviors, punishment for the offense, closure for the victims.
In a case like this, the contention that the acts were the result of an illness carries no weight with me. In fact this argument seems to belittle the victims.
"So, he was blamelessly "controlled" by his evolutionary drive rather than blamefully exercising control over it."
Not necessarily. We don't know if he is blameless. We don't know if he was controlled. We don't KNOW if this is the way the world works. It MIGHT be, but it can't be proved.
It is clear that this type of evil must be stamped out completely, and obviously in a controlled manner. You will be judged by the way in which this matter is handled. Mind your language.
My heart is burdened with compassion for the 3 (possibly more) innocent victims of the garridos.And I can't even begin to understand their(the victim's) lives yesterday, today, or tomorrow.
Garrido has permanently damaged them and so many others connected to them. He took much from so many innocent people. He took it and kept it as if it was his right and forced them to SERVE HIM. (Yuck)
Sickness does not come to mind first, an evil, cruel devil of a human is what I see him to be.
Garrido had all the control over his victims.And he had the self-control to maintain homes, a wife and mother in them, a compound, a business, a blog with legal protections,etc, etc.
Garrido had the control and all the choices. He knowingly stripped his victims of the same privileges and rights.His victims and their families will continue to be haunted by garridos actions.
But for garrido...
What comes around will go around.Such is life.
I agree Coonhound. What goes around comes around-as you say.
Steve/Nag...maybe you can coach garrido on how to reinvent himself again.
I mean since you are the only person I've heard in my life to demand empathy, compassion and understanding for the guy.
Garrido always had the right/privelage/free-choice to check himself into a mental hospital at any point in his twisted life.
Rather he freely chose to claim that he found God and claim that bc of that he was a "changed" man.
He was fully aware that he had to "become a changed man." That tells me that he knew his actions were wrong back when he kidnapped/raped the women prior to JC Dugard.
He was/is a mighty smart con-artist, to say the very least.
Nagarjuna, thank you for the congrats. And of course I read all of your comments now. I skipped over them at first, because they were too complex for me to skim over at first. But now, Yes, I read your every word. Guess what else, lol. I have had to look the definitions of some words up, lol even sometimes before using them, myself.
And I think I can honestly say Yes. I would probably follow through with certain "not very nice" things if it were not for the Lord. I am not afraid of jail. I have been there and it is pretty kick back compared to having to make one's own living. lol And then there is always that "slap on the wrist".
My apologies to Goblinbee!!! As I was showing my fiance this blog, I was reading over some of the posts from the beginning. And I am not sure if anyone caught my error, and I hope nobody ever reads it and misunderstands it, but I wrote GOBLINBEES WEBSITE, instead of GARRIDOS WEBSITE.
Goblinbee, I am so sorry. I did that to Tara and Teresa a few times. Well, I mistook one's post for the other with Tara and Teresa. And also, I have almost called you and Nagarjuna, Garrido on accident before. I worry about my seemingly oncoming dementia. lol Getting old is not fun.
I see sense of reality and sanity back in this blog this morning. I also see today's forecast holding to a bunch of "partial" quotes for argument's sake coming up.
Good morning, YouAreSuchAFreak. Good morning to everyone.
My son is sick this morning. I panic about the swine flu, so I called off of work as soon as he coughed twice. My cousin's 8 year old may have the swine flu. But they are not positive. Since testing costs $500, our hospitals have decided to treat every flu symptom the same as swine flu, without testing, to be on the safe side.
Do not count Teresa out so soon YouAreSuchAFreak. She is overseas and can only be reached by text and phone. She prefers her slap to be meaningful and in person.
Garrido really is the Boogie Man!
According to steve we shouldn't hate him, only hate what he does. That's awfully christian of steve.
Hate isn't in me. The Boogie Man disgusts me to no end, makes me sickened beyond belief.
Garrido is the Boogie Man...a servant of satan!
Denise, no worries--I didn't even catch that mistake! It makes me wonder if I happened to miss that comment of yours, because...wouldn't I have noticed?
Anyway, no harm done.
And congrats to your son!
If Garrido is the boogie man, where are all the boogers?
"Nagarjuna's reasoning that Garrido is "sick" simply because he carried out these acts is flawed logic."
CuppaJoe, I tend to agree with you. Yesterday I was going to say to Nagarjuna that I thought his conclusions flowed from an unprovable premise, but then you beat me to it. But, I disagree that that then means Nagarjuna can't be right. He might be. Even so-called "logical fallacies" are just human constructs. A logical fallacy does not completely discount someone's argument, because it can't.
Denise, how and where did you learn so many languages? Turkish?? Awesome!
Goblinbee, lol. I have no life. I learned some languages online. But, being that I am "color-blind", I have many friends in "the real life" of different races and cultures. I learn from them, also. And I took classes in school as well. I tried to learn Urdu, from the man that owns the corner store near me. I do not know if that is such a secret language, or if the man just didnt like me, lol. But he never cared to take the time to teach me anything, even in the 2 minutes I was paying for items in his store.
There is a site online that gives lessons and teaches languages for free. I believe the link is livemocha.com
Also, my fiance and I meet with each other after expensive telephone conversations, at a chatroom named Espanglishchat.com. There you can find people with many different languages. After filtering out the riff raff, you can find some very intelligent and decent people.
I forgot to say that I grew up speaking spanish and english. Not that anyone cares, lol. But goblinbee asked.
"...after expensive telephone conversations..."
Denise! Have you heard of skype? If you and your fiance both have computers, you could be calling each other for free. All you need are cheap microphones.
Denise, I think you must have a gift for languages. Some people do. My sister-in-law, for example. It seems that all she has to do is hear people speaking a language and she starts to pick it up right away. You seem similar.
I am envious that you grew up bilingually. Were both languages spoken in your home? My daughters are both fluent in another language--one in French, one in Spanish. Additionally, they have learned to get by in each other's second language (they are best friends). It's pretty impressive when they are together--the languages are just flyin'!
I watch Wallander (the famous swedish crime-fiction program) without the subtitles, for fun.
I also like to have Dutch women shout at me.
Nagarjuna, I want to say to you how sorry I am for the outcome of Annie Le. I know you are saddened by the horrible news. And you showed much concern for this case.
It made me wonder why some cases get so much media attention, and others do not. On the same page of my AOL.NEWS, if you scroll down, there are pictures of other missing women that did not receive such lengthy attention. Is it because Annie Le was beautiful?
I remember when I lived in Sacramento in the '80's, and 2 girls came up missing at the same time in California. There were many differences in the financial status of both families. Not to mention their looks.
As I watched the news about the one girl, several times a day. I remember noticing back then that the chubby girl with the overweight mother from the trailer park was shown only once, that I had seen. I may have missed other newscasts about her. But I did not miss so many lengthy interviews about the other girl with the more upperclass family. It made me angry, and it made me care so much for that chubby girl. I remembered her name until just recently. I know it will come back to me after I stop trying to think of what it is.
Yes, goblinbee, we have heard of skype. We do not bother with it. I do not know why. But I think picking up the phone to hear his voice is much more gratifying than speaking by computer. He types fast, I type fast. I have never looked at skype. But I am happy with our current arrangement. Well, except for the fact that we are not together. That would be the perfect arrangement.
I was going to say that after you learn an hispanic or arabic language, it is much easier to recognize words in similar languages. The words are very close and similar sometimes. I think it might be the same for asian or oriental languages also. I do not know. I had some friends from Laos, and I learned only phrases from them. But I havent tried to learn any other asian language. I think you have to be an artist to write the characters in some languages also. lol
It is strange also, because I cannot actually speak Norwegian. I can only read it and understand it. Write it as well. But Turkish, I cannot read or write. lol I can only speak it. And very slowly at that. lol
Both languages were spoken in my family. Not so much in my home, though. Not on a daily basis in my home, anyhow.
lol Dr., at the Dutch women shouting at you.
Goblinbee, I wish there was some way of communicating to you my email address. I would like to keep in contact with you after this blog is history.
Goblinbee, you ask so many questions. lol It is not a bad thing. May I do the same and ask you where you are from? I think Tara is from the UK. And I know that Nagarjuna is from my hometown. I now live in the Midwest of USA. I do not know where Teresa lives, but I believe she also lives in the USA. BrendaStar does not comment enough to even know the slightest thing about her, except that she is a good person. And if any one of the rest of the commenters here wish to state where they live, that would be great, I think. It helps to know where different ideas, and points of views from different parts of the country and world are coming from.
Denise, I've been thinking the same thing, but nothing seems secure. What could we do? I trust Nagarjuna--maybe we could exchange emails through him, if he is willing to be a go-between (Nagarjuna?). I especially want to know if you ever make it to Peru!
I'm not understanding your comments about skype. In my experience it is just like talking on the phone--you hear their voice the same.
Hi Denise, I'm originally from Southern California. I moved to Utah when I was 18 and spent 31 years there (ack!!!). I moved back to the West Coast three years ago, but to the Pacific Northwest this time. So Cal is way too smoggy and trafficy for me. Plus my family is there--wouldn't want to get too close!
We lived in Algona, Bremerton and I think Puyallap, Washington when I was younger. Are you near there?
And I also was thinking about asking Nagarjuna if it would be ok, since his email is public, and he has my emails, if you and Tara and Brenda could email him and he could give you guys my email. I actually had already emailed him earlier to ask him if he felt it would be ok if I posted my email the same as he has his.
And about skype. That is why I stated that I have never seen skype, so I do not even know if it is a good way of communicating. My fiance and I can speak by microphone through our MSN messengers, also.
My 7-yr-old son just told me that I do not have to sell everything. He has a better idea. He told me just to send Daddy some money, and he will come here. Then he said, "Daddy will help you, Mommy." It made me cry. So unfair for him to even go through life this long without his "Daddy".
I am going to ask my son how he feels about criminals and what their punishment should do. lol I am so sure he will have the most simple answers, but they will make more sense than all the politics that go into real world answers.
Ok done. I asked him what he thinks should happen to people that kill other people. He said, "Die. Go to jail." Then I said, then what? Should they spend time in jail then be let out? He said, "No." Why not, I asked him. He said, "Beccause they dont want some more bad people out here and they might murder someone else." "They should go back to jail for a thousand and a thousand and (not sure how many more, but several more 'a thousand') years."
I see that several comments have been directed my way since I last checked in here, so let me get right to them. But first let me say that I'm delighted to see more substance and less personal attack. In my opinion, that's the RIGHT way to discuss these difficult issues. Having said that, let me first address Freak's comment:
"I also see today's forecast holding to a bunch of "partial" quotes for argument's sake coming up."
First, I don't post merely for "argument's sake." At least I don't do that unless I'm just toying with someone's nonsensical personal insults. When I post about Garrido, I'm posting what I truly believe and why I believe it. Second, when I respond to someone's point, I try to quote only what I need to of their comment to convey their essential point before I address it. That way, I don't take up space quoting unnecessary material. But if anyone thinks I'm not quoting enough of their point to convey its essence or that I'm misrepresenting their point in any other way before I address it, please let me know. I want to be fair to everyone's arguments. I don't want to debate "straw men."
"It is unreasonable to argue that something is fact simply because you can't imagine it isn't fact. This kind of argument is called "argument from incredulity".
Good point, Cuppajoe. But let me make something clear. I'm not arguing that my being unable to imagine Garrido not being sick to do what he did PROVES that he must have been. I'm merely suggesting that if we have a hard time explaining how Garrido could have done what he did without being compelled by sickness to do it, we have good reason to further examine the possibility that he might have been sick, and I've invited you all to join in that examination with me. That examination may not PROVE that he was sick, but it may well be enough to give us pause in continuing to blame, hate, and condemn Garrido as a person the way most have here.
"Garrido carried out these acts because he wanted to. He somehow enjoyed them. This is a preference not an illness."
If you had a compulsive craving to eat feces or copulate with human corpses, would this be merely a "preference," or would it be an illness or sickness? I think you would be hard-pressed to pass it off as anything less than an illness. And I think the same can be said of harboring a compulsive craving to kidnap little girls and hold them as sex slaves. This is not mere "preference"; it's illness. A preference IS an illness when it's extremely powerful and harmful to oneself and/or others. And the more harmful it is, the more sick it is. And compulsively wanting to do and then actually doing what Garrido did is about as harmful as harmful gets. I think we would all agree with that. Therefore, what Garrido did was about as sick as sick gets.
(Please see Part 2)
(Part 2)
"The reasons for capital punishment as I see them (in diminishing value) are: to remove the offender from society - making us all safer, to deter others from similar behaviors, punishment for the offense, closure for the victims."
I agree that the death penalty removes the offender from society, that it may deter some from similar behaviors, and that it may provide closure for the victims (and for society as a whole). But I do NOT agree that it should be punishment for punishment's sake. In other words, if Garrido could be handled in such a way that he was safely removed from society, others were deterred, and closure were achieved without his being punished, I would see no need for punishing him for acting in a way that he couldn't help but act. Conversely, if punishing Garrido failed to safely remove him from society, deter others, or provide closure, punishment seems pointless. Therefore, punishment should not be an end in itself but only a just means to a desirable end.
"In a case like this, the contention that the acts were the result of an illness carries no weight with me. In fact this argument seems to belittle the victims."
If you're arguing, at least in part, that my contention carries "no weight" with you BECAUSE it "belittles the victims," I'm sure you must realize that even if it were true, and I don't believe it is, that regarding Garrido as sick "belittles" his victims, this in no way proves that Garrido isn't sick, just as, to use a simple example, calling the Christian God a myth doesn't prove that just because Christians are "belittled" by this, the Christian God must truly exist. But, again, I don't think calling Garrido sick "belittles" his victims. If a rabid dog bites a child, does the fact that we attribute the dog's behavior to rabies and not to free will "belittle" the child? If not, what's different about attributing a man's abuse of a little girl to sickness and not free will? How is she any less of a person or her and her family's suffering underappreciated as a result?
(Please see Part 3)
(Part 3)
"Not necessarily. We don't know if he is blameless. We don't know if he was controlled. We don't KNOW if this is the way the world works. It MIGHT be, but it can't be proved."
Goblinbee, I don't know if it can be "proved" or not. But if it makes sense to explain his actions as the result of his having been controlled by a sick or disordered mind to commit them, how can we meaningfully say that he should be blamed for what he did? Do we blame a hurricane for destroying a village? Do we blame a rabid dog for biting someone? Should we blame a physically or mentally sick person for the symptoms of his physical or mental sickness?
"Sickness does not come to mind first, an evil, cruel devil of a human is what I see him to be."
Coonhound, what is the difference between "evil" and "sickness"?
"Garrido had all the control over his victims.And he had the self-control to maintain homes, a wife and mother in them, a compound, a business, a blog with legal protections,etc, etc..."
Again, how does this mean that he wasn't sick? To revisit my crude previous example, if you had an overpowering desire to molest dead bodies, you might be able to think of very ingenious ways to do it (e.g., become a mortician or medical examiner) and hide it from everyone else, but this wouldn't mean that you weren't one sick puppy.
"And I think I can honestly say Yes. I would probably follow through with certain "not very nice" things if it were not for the Lord."
Well then, Denise, suppose you had an extremely powerful and persistent desire to abduct and molest little boys, you had no ability to comprehend the harm this could do them, you had a defective conscience that wouldn't stop you from molesting, you had no love or fear of a Lord in which you didn't believe, and your desire to molest overwhelmed your fear of being caught and punished. WHAT would stop you from molesting?
Denise, I hope your son's OK. From what I've read, scientists believe that virtually every case of the flu so far this season has been H1N1, so it's reasonable just to assume that that's the kind of flu a person has instead of testing to confirm it. The prognosis and treatment are pretty much the same anyway. H1N1 seems to be a little more dangerous than other common strains of flu but not significantly more so unless it mutates. THAT is the big concern.
In any case, I hope your son doesn't have ANY kind of flu.
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