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12,462 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 1001 – 1200 of 12462 Newer› Newest»I have not read all the comments, but from the ones I've read I have not gotten the feeling that Nagarjuna is anything but horrified by Garrido's actions.
In Nagarjuna's own words:
"I want him locked away for the rest of his life. That's what should have happened to him years ago and will surely happen to him now."
I also shy from violence being inflicted on Garrido, if only because I think it changes the person doing the violence. In a way, I do wish horrible things would happen to Garrido, but I don't want other people to be the instruments of those bad things, because then they would be caught up in horrors that they do not deserve.
Right Goblinbee: it grows as he goes along.... read from the beginning. Protect the child abductor rapist, make us pay for him, food, clothes, shelter, medical care and around the clock prison guards, and all the expense of administration of the prison that goes with that. Why, because this man was vile, a child molester, harmful to the public in EVERY WAY. Now, it is okay for this person to say, he deserves to be punished, but not before. Why is it that we should support a man such as this. There is not enough money to support the hungry children in our own country. Get real, this man is on a quest only to be right and not look at the full picture. To say that Jaycee was not as injured as anyone other person has wished upon this pedophile is pure and simple ignorant argument. Protecting his own kind, thereby protecting himself.
Teresa, you wrote: "He is like every other rapist. Unfeeling and uncaring...he is walking in this man's shoes."
In those words and others you've written impugning my motives in the worst way for writing what I have here, you have, according to a faith you profess but don't follow when it's not convenient, borne false witness against me. Contrary to what you say, I am NOT a "rapist" or pedophile, and nothing I have posted here about genuine justice, as opposed to lynch mob justice, makes light of the terrible wrong that Garrido committed.
You wrote: "He uses the excuse of sickness, failing to see this man was not sick, just selfish and self centered."
I addressed this objection previously. You did not rebut it. In a nutshell, Garrido's depravity went light years beyond mere selfishness and self-centeredness.
Nagarjuna:
Everything I'd posted is in your writing. There's not an iota that I could add to what you'd said.
On the subject of just punishment.. anyone who rapes an innocent child simply has to die. There's no need to consult with your inner Buddhas on this. There's no need to weigh the crime on some imaginary scale to determine an equal punishment. You rape a child, you don't deserve to see the day of light in my books. It's been that way for ages and should remain so into the future. This is certainly not a preventative measure but merely a punitive one designed expressly to both punish and prevent future such acts from same hands. If he'd been put down the first time around, this child would go on to have a normal life. In my mind, that's really all I could care about.
And you got it wrong.. to me, like any other normally functioning human being, reading the expression of hate and anger toward a child predator is simply an indicator of normal human emotions expressed openly and without any reservation. You also have to understand that a lot of 'torture' speech is just that a figure of speech. 98% of all people here would be just fine with having the bastard euthanized I assure you.
Simply saying "I'm repulsed by this crime" and yet at the same time advocating some form of leniency is contradictory at best. You are not simply advocating some form of perverse justice, you are sympathizing with someone who deserves no one's sympathy, ever.
As I'd already said, my biggest issue in this instance is that I don't even want to have my tax dollar spent on housing and feeding wild animals in human form. If you want to volunteer by all means go ahead but don't ask me to cuff up my hard earned cash on some bizare causes. I say feed the needy and exterminate the true predators and this world might just as well be a better place to exist.
I'll go even further.. if we could somehow go ahead and put down ALL child abusers (pornographers, rapists, and abductors) in this world I'll breathe a HUGE thigh of relief. There's not only no use in sexual vulchers like this in our society but their mere presence in our streets and homes is an ever present threat to the most defenseless and innocent. If taking them out could result in even a single child having a normal life, I'll vote with both my hands to have them gone.. preferably at the most minimal cost to the society.
There aren't enough years on earth to bring justice to what he did to this poor girl and her family. I can't even describe the disgust I have for this subhuman.
I love to believe in Hell because this is where he deserves to live after the atrocities he has committed, not to mention just the abuse and captivity but stripping a person of her free will and years of life seh can never get back.
I hope the jaws of Satan gnash you into hamburger you asshole, but only after spending the remainder of your earthly life being a**-r*ped by prison thugs.
NAG. And I use that as a slam. You are a nag. I have intentionally avoided being drawn into your little spider web. There is something really creepy about someone that hangs on every imagined slight and comment about you. It seems more than a little paranoid, and definitely obsessive/compulsive. You are drawing energy and enjoyment from this blog, and you revel at every challenge. Creepy. This will be my last comment. I don't care what you think. I DO know, however, that you know nothing about mental illness. DO YOUR HOMEWORK. I am now signed out, never to return. You can rant and rave all you want, but I will NEVER see it. I think you need serious mental help.
Teresa, you wrote: "To say that Jaycee was not as injured as anyone other person has wished upon this pedophile is pure and simple ignorant argument."
Jaycee has endured the tortures with razor blades, big Bubba constantly, eternal hellfire, etc. that we've seen suggested here? Come on, Teresa, you're being ridiculous!
I'm sure that Jaycee has gone through terrible, terrible times, it's probably been very difficult for her two daughters as well, and they all undoubtedly have an extremely challenging road ahead of them replete with more suffering than any human being should have to endure. But all of that suffering together, as awful as it is, does not constitute an "eye for an eye." The punishments suggested here vastly exceed it.
You bore false witness against yourself in your words. Flip flopping around. Since when is self indulgence, selfishness, and selfcenteredness a sickness. He is simply a pig. He is not sick. Where on earth do you get proof he is "sick" is beyond me, accept that you continually use it for YOUR PURPOSES of winning over a simple argument. He is unfit to be amongst the population. He is not worthy of us supporting him. YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TO TELL US OF OUR CHRISTIAN FAITH when we do not give into what you want here. THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NO CAUSE FOR ANY ONE CHRISTIAN TO BE COMMANDED TO HELP THIS MAN. HE HAS HAD HIS CHANCES TIME AND TIME AGAIN. He additionally had 18 years to make this right. He did not. He chose to keep on hurting this now woman and her children.
As for his wife, I don't know. There are no facts yet as to if she was his victim. However, she did reach out to him when he was in prison the first time. AND, she helped him go on and on and on with this. NO CHILD DESERVES THIS WITHOUT THE MOST SEVERE OF PUNISHMENTS. I HAVE NOT SAID WHAT I WISH, BECAUSE IT IS NOT A JOB I TOOK ON.
I will say, every Christian in this case has every cause to feel the way he made them feel without someone like you preaching at them that they are sinning in doing so. As you know, every Christian will later discuss their own hearts with their lord. They are not left without feeling and disgust, and they all know an eye for an eye.
Goblinbee: there's already over 1100 posts.. too many to actually rewind and sift through. The very first posts by Nagarjuna were designed to evoke anger and discontent. He didn't come out and say "the guy aught to have been locked up for good" right away. Instead he went on railing against people who'd obviously felt horrified by the whole crime.
He also went on to argue that this bastard didn't commit the crime willingly but was merely himself a victim of some illness, genetic or otherwise.
It was not until he started to receive heat for his brash comments that he had begun to slowly change his attitude and talk of some form of punishment such as a permanent lock up etc.
My immediate impression was that from the outset his comments were designed to fume the fires.
It's quite sad actually that a discussion of the crime turned into some kind of twisted debate with a self professed advocate to sexual predators.
I don't want to justify my obvious anger in front of an person who's evidently off his rocker. I haven't seen a more extreme form of pacifism than what I see coming from Nagarjuna.
Having this discussion with him is like reasoning with a child molester that touching young kids is wrong.
I wouldn't have had to waste so much time reasoning the obvious if only Nagarjuna had first come out with something like this:
"guys, I'm absolutely SHOCKED by the crime however that doesn't excuse us to seek his torture. I am ALL FOR him to be locked up indefinitely in a maximum security prison. Let him never see the day of light."
Right?
Vladb, you wrote: "Everything I'd posted is in your writing. There's not an iota that I could add to what you'd said."
But you HAVE added to it and misrepresented it, as I pointed out previously.
You wrote: "On the subject of just punishment.. anyone who rapes an innocent child simply has to die..."
If you read my previous post to Teresa, you saw that I don't necessarily disagree with this, although I have reservations about the justice and practicability of it.
You wrote: "You also have to understand that a lot of 'torture' speech is just that a figure of speech. 98% of all people here would be just fine with having the bastard euthanized I assure you."
Are YOU part of that 98%?
You wrote: "Simply saying "I'm repulsed by this crime" and yet at the same time advocating some form of leniency is contradictory at best."
What "leniency" have I advocated? How lenient is lifetime incarceration and possibly even execution? Because I oppose hateful torture, I am being 'contradictorily "lenient"? What are you smoking, dude?
Tsun, you wrote: "There is something really creepy about someone that hangs on every imagined slight and comment about you."
What is "creepy" about addressing the comments that have been made to or about me? What "slights" have I imagined that aren't actual and, for that matter, egregious slights? I suppose, to your peculiar way of thinking, it's also "creepy" for me to be addressing your comment now.
You wrote: "I DO know, however, that you know nothing about mental illness. DO YOUR HOMEWORK."
What do my comments here reveal that I don't know about it? Oh, that's right, you're not reading or responding to my questions. How convenient to make a false accusation and then not be around to have it refuted.
Vladb, you wrote: "He also went on to argue that this bastard didn't commit the crime willingly but was merely himself a victim of some illness, genetic or otherwise."
False. I've always maintained that he committed the crime willingly, but that his will was twisted by his sickness or defectiveness.
You wrote, "I wouldn't have had to waste so much time reasoning the obvious if only Nagarjuna had first come out with something like this: "guys, I'm absolutely SHOCKED by the crime however that doesn't excuse us to seek his torture. I am ALL FOR him to be locked up indefinitely in a maximum security prison. Let him never see the day of light."
That is a fairly good summation of my position. And perhaps I was remiss in not stating it in those or similar words from the outset. Your point is well taken there. But from the outset, I never argued that Garrido should go free or be patted on the back for his crimes. I have always and only called into question the comments I've seen here, and I stated rather early on that I favored his lifetime quarantine.
Do you want to know why you are as guilty as this man. Because people like you, with your softness, blaming everything on a sickness, instead of reality, continue allowing these people access back out to the public. Back out here to instill fear in their neighbors, back out here to molest, rape, sodomize, and murder others. Back out here to destroy the lives of all the public who are involved. Whether personally or not, it is a disgusting event people are forced to live with time and time again because people like you won't get off your pedestal. The innocence of an 11 year old was taken away. Nightmares will haunt her for the rest of her life. Her mother's and father's nightmares will haunt them for the rest of their life. Do you not think that is real. An eye for an eye again, is what Christians know. You must stop this. Allowing sensitivity to those who have no decency and walk with Satan in their hearts is ludicrous.
So you don't want him killed. I suggest you apply your writings to the law makers of this great country. Push to never allow them their freedom. Keep them locked up, because they will commit their disgusting crimes again. It is not a sickness to be selfish and unfeeling. Imagine raping someone who is screaming and crying in pain. Visualize the fear in their eyes. How can you possibly conceive of protecting a person who is capable of committing these crimes. They should not be allowed to walk free in public, and you sir, should not be arguing a case for him.
Teresa, you wrote: "You bore false witness against yourself in your words. Flip flopping around. Since when is self indulgence, selfishness, and selfcenteredness a sickness."
Where have I flip flopped? As I already explained, "self indulgence, selfishness, and selfcenterdness" becomes a profound sickness when it devolves from something relatively harmless like grabbing the last popsickle from the refrigerator before your kid eats it to something as egregious as kidnapping a young girl and holding her for eighteen years as a sex slave. Is that really such a difficult distinction for you to grasp?
You wrote, "YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TO TELL US OF OUR CHRISTIAN FAITH when we do not give into what you want here."
I disagree. I have EVERY RIGHT to lecture you on your Christian hypocrisy, (especially since no one else is doing it) and you have a right to TRY to refute what I say and to fail as miserably at it as you have so far.
Nagarjuna: Honestly nothing personal and I hope you understand. I know for a fact if anything like this had happened to you or someone you deeply care about you would full well understand from the onset what I was talking about.
This discussion is really just getting off hand. Maybe we do disagree (certainly) on specific phylosophical grounds but when it comes to crimes of especial magnitude I will ALWAYS cast my doubts away and err on the side of victims. Whereas one might argue that since he held the girl captive for 18 years he must endure just as many years and no more in jail, others may argue for more or less. I for one only argue for him to be no more. I couldn't care less if such evil person simply ceased to exist. With regards to predators like him it is simply prudent to withhold own extreme pacifist convictions. You don't want to trot the same line of thought that late Chamberlain took with regards to Nazi germany, would you?
Although we are not talking of quantitatively as horrendous a crime as the extermination of minorities at the hands of the SS, in my mind a crime against a defenseless child is unparalleled amongst any other crime a human could commit.
And please, for the sake of all that is decent and wholesome in this world stop referring to this predator as simply a man struggling with an undiagnosed illness. If you fail to realize just how awful that assessment sounded I don't know what kind of argument could convince you to think otherwise. Again, If only you hadn't said that from the outset, I would have spared precious moments of my life on something much more worthy than arguing an otherwise defenseless proposition. Even an extra minute I could rather spend with my children would have been many times more precious than engaging in a sensleless debate.
Teresa, you wrote: "Do you want to know why you are as guilty as this man. Because people like you, with your softness, blaming everything on a sickness, instead of reality, continue allowing these people access back out to the public."
Nonsense + misrepresentation. NONSENSE because I am not a pedophile or rapist; ergo, I am not "as guilty" as someone who is. If we follow your illogic, someone who "vents" his vengeful depravities here is just as "guilty" as someone who actually rapes and tortures suspected child abusers. MISREPRESENTATION because I have NOT advocated letting people like Garrido back out into society to reoffend. Do you read what I write and give it any thought before you reply, or do you just go off with your nonsense?
You wrote, "So you don't want him killed."
Where did I say that? In a previous comment to you, I suggested otherwise. Did you read it? Did you consider my questions and comments?
This guy wrote this so that he can claim later that he was "hearing voices," and then he got himself arrested. Maybe he got tired.
The very first post on this thread that I can find by Nagarjuna was at 1:29 on August 28:
"Yes, it was a vile and terrible crime..."
At 3:18 he said:
"I think Mr. Garrido deserves what any incurably and dangerously sick human being deserves at the hands of a civilized society: to be quarantined under humane conditions from society for the rest of his life."
So it doesn't seem to me that Nagarjuno has been defending Garrido's crimes, even from the beginning.
Okay you phony bible thumper. You wrote: I disagree. I have EVERY RIGHT to lecture you on your Christian hypocrisy, (especially since no one else is doing it) and you have a right to TRY to refute what I say and to fail as miserably at it as you have so far.
You have no right to tell anyone who does not ask for your form of Christianity when it is not asked for. You bear false witness for a life threatening rapist and most possibly serial murderer. An eye for an eye is clear as day here. There is no hypocrisy involved except your own. This man not only raped this girl for 18 years, may have raped his own children, may have raped and killed many others, did in fact rape and kill another woman and was let free by people like you to allow him to do all of this afterward.
What you truly need to do is put yourself behind Bubba, and learn, the act this non-ill, but selfish person does to you will last a lifetime in your dreams and every thought. They destroy lives time and time again. This is the world for Jaycee, her children and her family and friends.
I'm sorry, I have had it with you and your ridiculous arguments. If you are for real, which I highly doubt considering how your posts really started and where you are now, you need to experience some pain of your own to bring you down to earth.
You say you need to do this especially because no one else does. Does that give you a clue!!!! The man is a heartless animal, everyone knows this, but seemingly you. He is a liar, a phony who used this blog for his claim of insanity for this inevitable date. His soul lies with himself and GOD. The remainder of his life should be the will of the people who are not willing to tolerate him and his kind around us.
You know what. I know I am talking to a wall. I highly doubt you are anything but a sympathizer, due to your own heart and actions. You need this forgiveness you offer him. You make me sick as Garrido.
Exactly Petros!!!!! He wrote it because he knew he would be caught soon. Starting just after the police came to his door after a 911 call of the neighbors. He had aforethought. He knew what he was doing, he knew if he made himself look insane here, through these writings, there would be a possibility of an insanity plea. Only thing... the police didn't follow through. He had three years of being scared, and eventually went to the FBI, hoping the FBI would finally shake him down and get it over with.
Narajuda. I read what you wrote. Anyone can read what you wrote. It changes by the hour to suit your argumentative needs. But we still disagree even if you want to back out now. An eye for an eye is God's word. He caused a immeasurable amount of suffering. YOU HAVE NO RIGHT to tell another Christian they fail God's word in anyway way wishing him the same pain and suffering. While some of these people will rethink their words of anger and go pray to their lord, the others in no way have any duty to you or your views here. Many have told you to shut up, they don't want to hear your stupidity anymore. Read the bible. It says to shut up when you are asked. Maybe not in those words, but I think you need the power of them thrown at you, but the bible most certainly does tell you this.
Vladb, you wrote: "Honestly nothing personal and I hope you understand. I know for a fact if anything like this had happened to you or someone you deeply care about you would full well understand from the onset what I was talking about."
I don't doubt for a moment that you're right about that, just as I might very well be right in suggesting that if a loved one of yours were accused of committing such a crime, you might well empathize and side with someone who persistently argued for his being treated with fairness and justice. Thank God, even though I don't believe in him, I haven't had personal experience with either, but I DO ardently believe in fairness and justice, and I abhor lynch mobs and hypocrisy.
A pop or real psychologist might attribute that to an overeaction spurred by a repressed "shadow" vengefulness and hypocrisy, and maybe he or she would be right. And maybe you and others are right that there's something a little off-kilter, manic, or obsessive-compulsive about someone who goes to the lengths I have here.
But I have gone to these same lengths over the years in other kinds of discussions that have nothing to do with crime and punishment. I love to discuss and debate issues and be a gadfly to a community of like-minded people with whom I disagree.
But these personal speculations and admissions aside, I still think I have made good and reasonable points here, and I have continued to make them largely in response to comments made to or about me, many of which oversimplify or otherwise misrepresent what I've stated previously. And the more people protest my presence, the more my stubbornness is inclined to hang in there and keep at it.
Several days ago, I wrote that I was contemplating leaving this forum, but then Erik and I became involved in a brief but exhilarating discussion of free will vs determinism, and I stayed on. Perhaps I'll leave now or decide to stay on a little longer. But whatever I do, I will try to be more empathetic and respectful to the people with whom I disagree, and it would be nice if they could be the same toward me instead of casting aspersions or making blunt accusations that not only aren't true but which are vile and uncalled for.
You wrote, "And please, for the sake of all that is decent and wholesome in this world stop referring to this predator as simply a man struggling with an undiagnosed illness."
I'm sorry, Vladb, but I can't do that, for I believe with every fiber of my being that only a very sick person could do what Garrido did. If you or someone can present a cogent case for how he could have done all the things he's done and not be sick, I'll consider it carefully, but, in all frankness, I think that poses an impossible challenge to you.
In any case, I appreciate the tone and content of your comments this time, and I hope that I've been able to approximate them with my reply.
Teresa, please forgive me, but I can't let your accusations go unanswered. You wrote: "Narajuda. I read what you wrote. Anyone can read what you wrote. It changes by the hour to suit your argumentative needs."
What has "changed by the hour to suit my argumentative needs."? What do you even mean by this? That I've contradicted myself somewhere? If so, where? Examples, please.
I now reckon I wasn't satanic enough. Something Natalie said makes me want to go further. Christianity rocks. It gives demons something to do. They're bums to begin with, but at least they're not unemployed. Some people are dumb enough to think religion is a disease. It's only a symptom, and the disease is humanity. Fortunately, some of us, like Uncle Fred Nietzche don't have it. Hallelujah. 99.9% of what Christianity does, it does against its will. Against all will. It would be made well if it was made to be defective, paradoxical as that would be. As it is, Jesus would consider it to be more like a retarded bastard that he's sorry he begat than anything with enough integrity to be, like, the Body of Christ. And I suppose Philip Garrido would be the ultimate Christian, if he wasn't running neck and neck with a multitude, dead or alive. Hell bent.
Teresa, you wrote: "Okay you phony bible thumper."
Phony? How? Where? Please be specific.
You wrote: "You have no right to tell anyone who does not ask for your form of Christianity when it is not asked for."
Of course I do, just as you have the right to ignore or counter it. But you've done neither. You obviously haven't ignored it, nor have you convincingly explained to me what's false in my characterization of Christianity and what it expects of those who profess it. You surely don't mean to suggest that if Jesus were standing beside you or any of your hateful fellow Christians here, he would be pleased to see you say things like, "Rape and torture the child rapist as viciously and for as long as you can and then pray that he burns forever in hell" or that you would feel comfortable doing it.
You wrote: "He caused a immeasurable amount of suffering. YOU HAVE NO RIGHT to tell another Christian they fail God's word in anyway way wishing him the same pain and suffering."
Sure I do, because it's true, and you know it. You just don't like the fact that I keep rubbing your nose in it, and so you start defaming me with your vile accusations to get back at me and to deflect the discussion. Teresa, just as I believe I can express myself more respectfully and empathetically toward you and others here, surely you can do the same toward me.
You wrote: "Many have told you to shut up, they don't want to hear your stupidity anymore."
Please present even one example of something I've said that's stupid and provide a reasonable explanation for HOW it's stupid. If you can do that, I'll stop saying it, because I don't want to say stupid things any more than you want to "hear" them. But if I don't believe they're stupid and you haven't shown me how they are, then I'm afraid that I'm likely to just keep saying them if I think it's indicated. And I have EVERY RIGHT to do it.
You wrote: "You make me sick as Garrido."
You know what, Teresa, I empathize with you here. I empathize because, to be perfectly frank, you and many others here make me as sick as Garrido. Or, it would be more accurate to say not that you make me but that that I make myself feel as repulsed by your hateful and sadistic venting and Christian hypocrisy as I do by the awful acts of that obviously sick man Garrido. But I realize intellectually that there is no equivalence between Garrido's acts and yours. Garrido's were far worse, even if his sickness made him commit them. And so I try to bring my emotions and my words in line with this intellectual realization. I hope that you can come to the same realization about me, that you can at least strive to bring YOUR emotions into line with it, and that any further discussion in which we might engage is improved in content and tone by that intellectual and emotional realization.
Nagarjuna: I could go back, waste my time, copying and pasting statements you have made contradicting yourself, but for what, you would still sit here with your perpetual need to argue this. Even when disgusting details are sucked out of me to get through to you re: the eye for an eye here, you argue. I have a brother like you, you must be right at no cost. It would be a waste of time for me to copy and paste from all your many writings to prove to everyone how your words have changed. Others have done so, you argued those away. Man... I am sorry, but you really seem to argue and get snippy when people come close to showing you the truth here. WHY... Forget that, I took the question mark off. I don't want to know.
At this point in time, as Garrido has had his chances, even after being given a second chance, is not ill, but still chose to violate a child and other women in the most horrific of ways, any Christian has a right to feel it fair an eye for an eye. I still feel and will forever feel so very sad that these people leaving their wishes are hurting so much, that they need to scream out the most vile of punishments for this man. But, those people get this from the most painful reality of the pain this man has caused so many innocent victims, and at this time, the primary known victim being an innocent child. The crimes are of the most ugliest of crimes imaginable, and nothing I have seen here appears to be worse than what this man did to the child alone. I would think the wishes of death are a kinder form of punishment than 18 years of the hell he put this child through.
As far as I am concerned, I certainly don't want the man walking the streets again, and when I think about paying to keep him for the rest of his life, I think I want to stop paying my taxes.
Before this case came to light I'd already been thinking about some of these issues: the issues of crime and punishment. I've been following a case of a family in Washington where a young girl was starved and thirsted for years. Her father and stepmother have been accused of criminal treatment of a child; the father pleaded guilty yesterday; the stepmother has so far pleaded not guilty. It was the stepmother who did the withholding of food and water as punishment, and the dad did nothing to stop the abuse (he is equally liable, in both my opinion and the court's opinion).
What makes this WA case especially poignant for me is that a number of my good friends used to work at the same company as the stepmother (at that time she was dating her now-husband), and some of them knew her quite well. There was nothing in what they saw of her to indicate that she was capable of this horror. One of my friends even said recently that he still feels fondly towards her.
I have been examining my own feelings in relation to this case, and to this newer case. I am always horrified to feel my own vengeful feelings rise up, but I have to admit to them. I think I would never act on them, but is that only because I have never been in a situation that pushes me to that limit? The human heart definitely has a dark side.
Nagarjuna, I have been interested in all your comments, and I am a bit on the obsessive compulsive side myself. One area where I think we probably disagree is that I don't think there is anything that we could do to Garrido that would be as bad as what he did; he destroyed so many lives. He could feel horrible physical pain from what some of the commenters have been suggesting, but for me that does not compare to the mind fuck he did on this girl and her family. She was kidnapped at 11 and held hostage for 18 years, being raped repeatedly and made to bear the children of her captor. The mind reels. I also think of her parents: her mother lost her daughter; her stepfather was the prime suspect in her kidnapping; her daughters were raised in isolation by a lunatic. Jaycee and her daughters can probably never be whole; they will always look at the world through a warped lens because their abuse started at such young ages and lasted for so many years. He stole their lives and their innocence.
Physical pain pales in comparison. Which is probably another reason I wouldn't condone any violence towards him. There IS no way to punish him, really -- the only thing to do is lock him up so that he can't hurt anyone else. The other option would be capital punishment; I'm not sure where I stand on that. It's an issue I would love to discuss with you!
He is too old & ugly to get a hot jailhouse boyfriend!!! How DARE he steal another human being from their life! I hope Mr. Garrido dies slow, and all alone...
Teresa,you wrote: "Nagarjuna: I could go back, waste my time, copying and pasting statements you have made contradicting yourself, but for what, you would still sit here with your perpetual need to argue this."
Oh, come on, Teresa, you've hung in there this long. Surely you can spend a few more moments weeding out one of my self-contradictions and presenting it here for me and everyone else to see. If you really CAN do this, you'll be doing me a service in showing me the error of my ways. But I respectfully suggest that you could search from how till Doomsday and never find anything.
The ball's in your court.
You wrote: "Garrido has had his chances, even after being given a second chance..."
Isn't there a passage somewhere in the Bible where Jesus is asked how many times we should forgive someone, and he replies that we should never stop forgiving as long as they have life? Isn't a key principle in Christianity the human being's free-willed capacity for redemption in this life, no matter what he's done previously?
You wrote: "nothing I have seen here appears to be worse than what this man did to the child alone."
You wouldn't call being sodomized to death by a broomhandle or burned in hell for eternity worse than what he, sickly or not, inflicted on Jaycee? Come on now, Teresa! What he did was terrible. But the tortures and mutilations that many have suggested here are even worse. Infinitely worse!
You wrote: "As far as I am concerned, I certainly don't want the man walking the streets again, and when I think about paying to keep him for the rest of his life, I think I want to stop paying my taxes."
You see, we agree on something. I don't want him walking the streets either. And I don't fancy the idea of paying taxes to keep him alive. But I also have reservations about killing people for being sick, and I continue to believe that, if not for his sickness, he wouldn't have done what he did. Even so, my repugnance for what he did is almost enough to override these reservations, and if he were put to death as humanely as possible, I might even be for it.
Goblinbee--
I appreciate your very thoughtful and eloquent post. The issue of appropriate responses to various crimes is an extremely challenging one, especially for a determinist such as myself. In a nutshell, I think that the only appropriate uses for punishment are to give the wronged and society as a whole a sense that justice has been served and to deter further crime, but, even then, I think that punishment must lie within boundaries dictated by true justice and mercy and that, for instance, torturing Garrido for the physical or psychological tortures he inflicted on his victims falls outside those boundaries. Furthermore, I don't see the justice in torturing someone in any way for the symptoms of their sickness or defectiveness, and I've already made it perhaps nauseatingly clear that I believe Garrido's acts were the inevitable symptoms or effects of pathological causes or malfunction.
So, what IS justice in this case, and in the case with which you have a more personal familiarity? That WOULD be an interesting topic for further discussion.
1993 Girrado did four months in a Federal Pen for parole violation. While Jaycee was still held captive by the wife, Girrado wrote songs and discussed with inmates about his blue eyed babe, and that he liked his sex "rough". Jerk off, what do you suppose Jaycee experienced for 18 years.
When wishers wish this man get the same, and the Lord offers and eye for an eye, who are you to say they are not good Christians? Your words are nothing but that of a man, with probably a group of people helping you write your quick responses. Who are they Life Advocates. What about the lives and rights of everyone who has to endure these crimes.
Again and again you can through your false accusations that I have answered nothing in response to your argument. I can continue with facts known to this date of the vile acts this man has taken on a child. I don't need to prove anything to you, I need to express to the people, that they ARE NOT IN VIOLATION OF GOD'S WILL IN FEELING THE WAY THAT THEY DO. An eye for an eye is just in accordance with the word HE left us.
My heart will forever go out to those who feel so vile by this that they needed to say they wish this upon Girrardo.
"Isn't there a passage somewhere in the Bible where Jesus is asked how many times we should forgive someone, and he replies that we should never stop forgiving as long as they have life? Isn't a key principle in Christianity the human being's free-willed capacity for redemption in this life, no matter what he's done previously?"
Only when you twist the passage, does it read this way. Get back there and read when this was stated, who said it, and who he said it to. Then go back to an eye for an eye.
Do you all know what equal revenge would do to the word. We have a LIVING GOD and you all are using words that died years ago. What did Christ meen when HE said turn the other cheek?If somebody steals your Sunday paper should you go steal theirs? Justice will be served when all the facts are known, IS IS what IT IS.
Love, ParPar
Patmos: He said: turn the other cheek, if he slights it, offer him the other. Now go read what instruction he gave next.
We are not required to just take it, and suck it up forever. At this point, we have an option.
Teresa, you wrote: "Jerk off, what do you suppose Jaycee experienced for 18 years."
There's really no need for the name-calling, Teresa. In answer to your question, I don't know what Jaycee experienced, and neither do you. But I think we can both be certain that she wasn't sodomized to death with a broomhandle or roasted in the fiery furnace of hell forever and ever, don't you? And, therefore, even if you believe in the OLD TESTAMENT injunction of "an eye for an eye," which I'd like to see compelling evidence that Jesus himself supported, I think you'd have a very difficult time making the case that the physical and psychological torments proposed for Garrido are less than or equal to those that Jaycee has endured and will have to endure.
You wrote: I don't need to prove anything to you, I need to express to the people, that they ARE NOT IN VIOLATION OF GOD'S WILL IN FEELING THE WAY THAT THEY DO."
Then don't. Make your dubious accusations about my alleged self-contradictions and your vile, false accusations about my sexual proclivities and practices without proving them and, consequently, reveal your appalling lack of Christian and basic human integrity, and continue to insist without documentation that Jesus himself would want Garrido hideously tortured or, at least, be okay with the widespread "venting" of desire for it here.
Teresa, that's right, I want the "satanic beasts alive to fill the earth with pain and ugliness." I tried to hide it, but you saw right through to my "demonic" core.
When we began commenting to each other, I saw a glimmer of reasonableness and sanity. Now I sadly see someone who's gone off the deep end.
All the best to you, Teresa.
And where was it stated that Satan hides behind the word of GOD...
Jesus was a man, and never once tore down or contradicted the word of GOD from the old testament. Yet, somebody in here would twist words and use this as a source to twist the minds of others.
It just takes a prayer before you read requesting that HE help you to understand the truth in his words. Do not fall for the ramblings of another as HIS word. Not mine, not anyone's from the podium, for it is your life alone you are accountable for, and you alone can obtain the truth in his words.
Just a brief word about an "eye for an eye" for those inclined to use this OLD TESTAMENT passage to condone torture or the venting of the desire to see torture inflicted on someone.
This is what Jesus is quoted as saying in Matthew 5:38-39: "You have heard that it was said, "An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth". But I say to you, do not resist an evildoer. If anyone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also."
If you bother to investigate modern scholarly interpretations of this passage, you will encounter something like the following:
"Jesus and the law of equivalency. The intent of the law of retribution was to ensure that the punishment corresponded to the crime in order to control the punishment inflicted on the guilty one. In Matthew 5:38-42 Jesus was not abrogating this important legal principle, but was rather inviting Christians in their daily lives to go beyond the letter of the law.
The implicit intention of the law—to eliminate personal revenge—was stated explicitly by Jesus; and He, in His own person and ministry, modeled it for us."
It seems very clear from this that Jesus would not approve of people raping and torturing or even ranting about raping and torturing someone to death for doing what Garrido did.
What's more, Jesus would surely not condone the repeated, scurrilous, and unrepentant bearing of false witness against me that we have seen here from a certain individual I shall mercifully not name.
Poor Poor Nagarjuna. Someone supposedly gave false witness against him. Never mind that Nagarjuna spent the day condemning over a 1000 people for speaking their minds after having their hearts ripped out from under them. Having to absorb, realize and barf over the vile acts of a vile man upon a child as well as others. Nagarjuna, giving this despicable man every unfounded excuse of illness, expects that no man should feel other than the way he feels, and we should once again forgive this man, get over it, and support him for the remainder of his life.
Whether the statements in this blog were meant by the writers or were stated in anger, they are loud and clear that mankind cannot accept the current policy on the punishment of pedophiles. The system is not working. Where is man to go with this his thoughts on this when no viable solution, after all these years and psychological study of these pedophiles leaves us with these results. If you ask me, the men and women that have to endure this time and time again are the ones who are ill, and it is this that brings about the wishes they have stated in this blog. We do not accept pedophiles, nor excuses for their actions any longer. We should not allow ourselves to be told we are condemned by GOD by one man who wants only to force us to follow a path which has proven to fail our women and children time and time again.
I dare say GOD would want us to continue on allowing this and I am sick to death of people laying guilt upon those that cannot cope with it any longer.
nag,,,go take a nap.....serious, you havent slept for the 3 days since this blog was discovered...its ok, nag. the blog will be here when you wake up ok? all the comments will be here..you wont miss anything.
and how did this blog become such an intricate part of your life now? you have been here arguing with ppl you dont know and never will for the longest days....GO TO SLEEP, PLZ. you know what lack of sleep does to a persons brain....maybe it is too late.
GUESS HOW MANY PERVERTED BASTARDS LIKE GARRIDO WILL BE RELEASED FROM PRISON IN THE NEXT WEEKS AND MONTHS
It's sad how a certain person who shall remain unnamed out of sympathy for her unbalanced behavior continues to defend her defamatory statements about me, continues to defend the Christian hypocrisy she and others have made ubiquitous here, and continues to insult me for correctly pointing out that hypocrisy.
I agree with this person that people should not feel guilty for doing things that aren't wrong. But when they express vile fantasies of rape and torture and then try to misuse their Christian faith to justify it, and when they repeatedly and unapologetically bear scurrilous false witness against others, they DO have something to feel guilty about, and the fact that they continue to protest my pointing that out strongly suggests that they DO feel guilty about it.
Oh well...goodnight everyone. May tomorrow be a wonderful day for all.
Denise: I am afraid to ask, but how many?
Nagarjuna, this is all so fascinating and perplexing. I think I've always had something of a schism. On the one hand, I abhor violence, even state-sanctioned violence. I don't want anyone to have to flip the switch, and I don't like that it seems to satisfy some people's blood lust. On the other hand, I don't mind so much the idea that people who have committed heinous crimes would be put to death. In those instances I can feel for the families; I don't want them to have to suffer more. Knowing the perpetrator is still alive could be such a painful thing to live with every day (I have heard of people who have forgiven the perpetrators, which seems like such a miracle to me, and such a miraculous place to be; I am in awe). As to your question--how would justice best be served?--the Garrido case seems fairly clear-cut in that this is a person who has committed other crimes in the past and society needs to be protected from him. He and his wife are facing 29 felony counts, and he has priors. I think he will be put away forever, either in a prison or in a mental hospital. The police are now trying to find evidence to link him to more crimes, but it seems likely that they already have enough on him to put him away for life (and, hopefully, his wife too).
The WA case is a strange one. The girl was often locked in her room with a deadbolt on her door, was not allowed to go to school, and was starved and thirsted for a period of five years. The reports say she did not gain any weight between the ages of 9 and 14, when she was finally discovered and taken from the home; her growth is said to be permanently stunted. While all this was going on, her younger brother was fed and well-cared for, as were two family dogs.
The parents have only been charged with criminal mistreatment, a charge that carries a maximum of 3 1/2 years in WA. It seems to me that justice is not being served here. The girl was given so little water each day that her mouth was not moist enough to support her teeth; all of them were rotting stumps that needed to be removed upon her rescue. She was singled out for this torture when everyone else in the home was healthy and thriving. Another mind fuck.
I think the prosecutor should be able to charge the parents with kidnapping, since the girl was being held captive in her own home, but I'm sure they would if they could. I have wondered what twist of the law has kept them from filing more serious charges.
As to the death penalty (one of my own questions), from what I have read, it costs the taxpayers more to send a person to death row than it does to let them just live out their life in prison, what with all the appeals. But if it provides relief and closure for the families, I don't feel particularly against it.
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I'm not a Christian, or any kind of -ian, or -ish, or -im or anything else.
Give him a fair trial. Present all the facts. Then hand me a ball bat. I have no moral qualms about it at all, and zero hypocrisy.
And if you insist I'm still a hypocrite, I really don't give a shit:)
I realize the rights of all getting a fair trial, but the unnecessary expense of a trial is so annoying. This man already admitted in his interview he kidnapped Jaycee, and that he had her all these years, so I sure hope they don't allow this to become a circus and make a long expensive trial out of it, which would also drag Jaycee and her children through more hell.
hang him (ironically he is on ol' hangtown, good ol placerville), and air it on cable, charge money for it, might help the ecomony!!! our state cant afford another lengthy trial, and it's in my county...I dont want to pay to feed him...while he sits in jail down the street...
You should be hung face down with your manhood
As I've said before:
For those Christians who think the "words died" (aka the Old Testament does not apply), remember the words of Jesus:
------------------
Matthew 5:17
"Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill.
"For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished.
----------------
And WHO does this Law apply to? Let's see, here in 1 Timothy 1:8
----------------
"But we know that the law is good, if a man uses it lawfully, as knowing this, that law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and insubordinate, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, for the sexually immoral, for homosexuals, for slave-traders, for liars, for perjurers, and for any other thing contrary to the sound doctrine.
-----------------------
And what law are we talking about here? Well, it SPECIFICALLY tells you here in Deut 24:7
-----------------------
"If a man is caught kidnapping any of his countrymen of the sons of Israel, and he deals with him violently or sells him, then that thief shall die; so you shall purge the evil from among you."
-----------------------
It says that the Law applies to those people which Timothy so eloquently named. I think, call me kooky, that Mr. Garrido falls under a couple of those categories. So, using the Law properly here, we are to purge the evil (Mr. Garrido) from among us.
I really don't think we need to go any further as Christians.
Disturbing. Nagarjuna is perhaps the only real Christian here. I myself make no claims to Christianity, and thus I am free to judge him or not within the confines of my own private cosmology.
Still, I think that people who state he should burn in hell have very simple imaginations as regards to concepts like "eternity" and "pain".
Now, Nagarjuna is taking the high road. He is choosing to adopt the mentality of "crimes must be punished but vengence is the Lord's", or at least that is what I get out of it. Unlike many others here, who choose to believe they are Christians even while they salivate at the thought of a modern crucifixion for this monster. That is not what the lessons of Christ impart. What most of the people here are truly is Hannurabists, in that you follow loosely Hannurabi's code of "Eye for an Eye, Tooth for a Tooth". You want this man to suffer as Jaycee has suffered. Personally, I do not blame you, but it makes you no more Christian than Anton LaVey.
As for him being sick or not, we shall see. I am sure there will be a whole slough of test performed on Mr. and Mrs Garrido to determine their state of mental health.
The focus many of you have on Mr. Garrido is understandable, and natural... but, it is misplaced on him. You should be focusing on Jaycee (like a few here have), praying for her and her children. You should use this as a chance to stop people like Garrido in your own communities. While nither Christian nor Hannurabist, it is however rational thought. What better way to approach this situation besides using it as a lesson and a chance to improve our own lives, and the safety of our children, I ask you?
Garrido is going to be punished in accordance with our laws. Count on that. And after, he will face God, and the man will sort him out. Or he will face oblivion, as some atheists here might suggest, and is will be wiped from existance except for rotting flesh and what people remember of him. Either way, I am cool with the outcome.
It still bothers me though when a man (Nagarjuna) takes an enlightened stance on a hard subject and a gaggle of "Christians" start eMartyring him. Ironic, and stupid.
Just asking! I have faith in the judges we elected up here in Placerville, he will not see the light of day if he did what we hear and all the gossip is true. Don't talk down to me, I have 3 daughters and want justice more than anybody. I just don't want to have things wasted through haste and anger. To kill is wrong, dead wrong and if you think that GOD justifies killing in THE HOLY WORD, get a life. I have not seen too much reverence hear on this blog, just anger, but that is OK for emotions to run high as long as nobody acts on them. IT IS CALLED, "GRACE".
Love, Patmos
Ol' Mustard Seed said:
"To kill is wrong, dead wrong and if you think that GOD justifies killing in THE HOLY WORD, get a life."
He doesn't justify it, he COMMANDS it.
See above & previous postings for proof texts.
Behold I shall smite thee with my white hammer of justice! My righteous rod shall puncture thy sphincter with the full force of indignation. Thou may cry for mercy, but mercy shall be scarce.
Janus, I'll tell you what disturbs me is that you, like Nagarjuna claim that you are not a Christian so it makes no difference to you, that you are free to judge Girrado or not. Yet you twist the words argued with Nagarjuna. Nagarjuna condemns and you support Nagarjuna for condemning those Christians who are sick to death of these pedophiles and wish upon him the same physical pain he inflicted upon women and children. The arguments with Nagarjuna were nothing less than disgusting at his closed mind. His way or no way. "Make those that are sickened with Garrido and his actions support physically, with clothing, food, shelter, medical care, guards, etc." People are sick to death of these pedophiles and our government for continually letting them out back at us. If the people cannot control the outcome, and are continually subjected to these disgusting crimes, it is a perfectly understandable reaction that even a Christian would blurt out what they individuals have been blurting out in these blogs. Nagarjuna, and you are not Christians, yet it is so easy for you to support that these people, whether Christian or not should be in some way humiliated, punished or ridiculed for feeling the pain that they obviously feel in order to leave the posts that they have. As a Christian, albeit, whose faith is under high question, I say these people have every right to feel these emotions. Our laws, and what they allow these pedophiles to do to our women and children really leave no choice but for man to resort to fight fire with fire. An eye for an eye is from no other than the bible by the way.
I do not condemn Teresa. I critisize, granted, but I do not want you or anyone to believe that I would condemn where they manage to find positive spirituality.
And I get it, you are sick unto death of these.... creatures, like Phillip Garrido. I wholeheartedly agree. Still, the solution to this is not in pointless flaming over the internet in hopes that we will butcher him and revel in his pain. That IS Un-Christian. Just on this page alone, people are PLEADING for him to "die and go to hell", "burn in hell with your cunt wife", "I hope a pony bites your dick off" (and while that last one provoked imagry that made me giggle, it still illustrates the DESIRE to see him suffer, forever).
I do not feel that they should be humiliated or ridiculed for feeling pain over this, and the heart goes where the heart will. I myself live a three minute drive from Garrido's home. I felt like I wanted to tie him up, cut off pieces of him, stave him, then when he got hungry enough cook up his own flesh and feed it to him, mostly because it happened and I could not prevent it, because I did not know a thing about it, despite the proximity. I do feel ashamed for feeling that way though, even temporarily. Mostly because I realize that if I took that fantasy in even a slightly realistic bent, then not only would I be a monster, but I would also be hurting Jaycee as well as Garrido. That is not the way, and despite not paying much heed to the Bible, I do admire the lessons of Christ and even revere them.
My focus is not on Garrido. My focus now is on Jaycee and her children. There is no amount of suffering we can put Garrido through to give Jaycee 18 years of her life back. There is no amount of torture to Garrido that will balance the scales for the two children, who are now living under an awful truth, that if this was a just world to begin with, then they would not even exist.
As for allowance of this to occur, our LAWS prevent this from happening and DENY it. Of course, we live in a messed up world. Hell, the vaunted and much-glorified Bible says I can own slaves, so long as they are from another country. I can have intentured servants if they are Israeli though, if I was also Israeli...
I will quote the bible here:
Leviticus 25:44-46: "Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property. You can will them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly"
In however twisted a sense, Garrido specifically did nothing in violation of what bible allows and does not. That was taken from the same
Taken from the same BOOK in the bible:
Leviticus 24:20 "If you break a bone, one of your bones shall be broken; if you put out an eye, one of your eyes shall be put out; if you knock out a tooth, one of your teeth shall be knocked out. Whatever injury you cause another person shall be done to you in return."
So, the Old Testiment does indeed proport Hannurabi's Code of "eye for an eye" but in the very same book of the bible exhonorates Garrido. Maybe these contridictions are what I dislike about Christianity. If you use the old testiment, use it and none of this mix and match shit. Garrido is innocent, eye for an eye. OR you can look to the lessons of Christ. You are Christians, not Old-Testamentians.
You are right, people have a right to feel pain over this. Still, I am not judging Garrido as worthy of being sent to hell, because I do not presume to be god. You say they are venting? Maybe they are, and then Nag should not bother with them, as they are just venting and not actually saying anything merit-worthy or relevant. What I suppose bothers me, and him too, is that they say things like this and when their venting is treated as venting and not as truth they wish to promote, we are dismissive. When we treat it as truth and not venting, we are critical.
More later.
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Teresa wrote, "The arguments with Nagarjuna were nothing less than disgusting at his closed mind. His way or no way. "Make those that are sickened with Garrido and his actions support physically, with clothing, food, shelter, medical care, guards, etc."
First of all, I commented to you that I wasn't necessarily opposed to capital punishment in cases like Garrido's. But I also asked you a question that you conveniently ducked. I pose it again to you and to any other hatemonger here who as the guts to answer it:
Suppose, for the mere sake of argument, that Garrido WAS mentally ill when he committed his crimes, and that his mental illness forced him to commit those crimes. Would it be fair and just to execute, much less rape and torture him mercilessly, for those crimes? Remember, this is a hypothetical. You don't have to believe that mental illness caused Garrido to commit his crimes in order to answer my question.
Janus, you wrote: "Disturbing. Nagarjuna is perhaps the only real Christian here."
How ironic that I, who am not Christian and believe that Christianity is mostly nonsense, nevertheless espouse a more Christian view of mercy and compassion than do most of the so-called Christians who have vented their rage here. It seems that for most Christians here and in the world at large, Christianity's lofty ideals of fairness and justice even toward people such as the Garridos are mostly window dressing and not to be followed when it isn't easy or convenient. "Oh, we're just so fed up with these pedophiles and the evil that they do that it's okay if we chuck our Christian principles right out the window and surrender to the mob frenzy, at least for a little while." This reminds me of an episode from the original "Star Trek" series where a highly regulated society took time out periodically during an event called "Red Hour" to go crazy on the streets, after which time they would return to their preternaturally calm and disciplined lives. I guess what we're seeing here is an extended "Red Hour." But where does Jesus or Christianity in general condone this sort of thing? Clearly and irrefutably, it does NOT.
Speaking of "venting," I'd like to pose a question to those who defend their outrageous sadistic fantasies toward Garrido as merely "venting." How many of you believe that these tortures should really be inflicted on Garrido, and how many of you would be willing to inflict them yourself if you had the opportunity?
You wrote: "I do not condemn, Teresa. I critisize, granted, but I do not want you or anyone to believe that I would condemn where they manage to find positive spirituality."
You speak for me as well. I don't "condemn" anyone here. Not even those, like Teresa, who falsely and unrepentantly accuse me of being a pedophile or child rapist, or others, probably "true believin' Christians, who have gone even further and said that I should be abused and killed for posting the comments I have here. Like you, I "criticize" and question. I criticize and question the rampant Christian hypocrisy I see here. I criticize and question the so-called "venting" of depraved fantasies of vengeful torture inflicted on an obviously sick, sick man. I criticize and question those who call me a pedophile deserving of abuse and death because I criticize and question the lunacy I see here. But I do NOT condemn anyone.
Janus: I have not seen this in Leviticus 25, and I will go study it, before it and after the scripture to learn the true words, and their true meaning. Some deviant individuals would just throw in comments such as this just to tear down one's belief in the Lord. As well, so many others interpret the bible, and it's various versions at face value rather than the word as a whole and therefore it is misunderstood. Others have no faith, therefore didn't pray for the truth of the words, so they do not have a single bit of understanding of the word written at a time so long ago. Which brings me to my next statement, you wrote: "If you use the old testiment, use it and none of this mix and match shit." There is no mix and match, the bible, in it's totality is HIS word. The difference between old and new is that the old was before Jesus was sent, and the new was after Jesus was born. How the world and man was created, how sin came about, etc., then Jesus was sent to offer salvation. The entire bible was meant to be used by Christians. Jesus did not come down to change GOD's laws, and did not change laws, but he explained them, and taught from the word of the old testament to a world who did not understand.
It perplexes me that someone who claims not to be a Christian knows so much about the bible and Christians. The bible does warn us of this, and of false prophecy so I will study Leviticus 25 and learn the truth for myself.
No doubt, your comment that "Garrido specifically did nothing in violation of what bible allows" is rather tasteless, but expected from a non-Christian. I am not going to address such remarks with you or Nagarjuna, if in fact you are not one and the same, which only allows you to spread an adverse word against HIM.
Is Garrido sick? Well, here is old fashioned (16th century) medicine for this kind of ailment:
- Rack (to be applied continuously)
- Red hot pincets (to be applied from time to time)
Janus, you wrote: "You are right, people have a right to feel pain over this."
This may come as news to people such as Teresa who either have not read my comments very carefully before misrepresenting them or are unable to comprehend what they read no matter how hard they try, but I agree with you. People have every right to FEEL frightened, angry, and even vengeful toward the Garridos of this world. But they step over the line of anything even remotely resembling human decency, much less Christian integrity, when they ACT on those feelings by "venting" them the way they do here, by defending others who vent them, or by actually being willing and expressing their willingness to perpetrate the savage acts of "punishment" they say they would if they could.
Civilized people don't surrender to such barbarity or make excuses for those who do. They join you and me in denouncing it.
My sagely spear shall pierce his filthy innards. Justice propels my white flood and I shall drown him in delirious deluge.
The redemption of servants:
Leviticus 25:39 And if your brother becomes poor beside you, and sells himself to you, you shall not make him serve as a slave, he shall be with you as a hired servant.
So we learn once again, omitting sentences, removes the truth in the word, and only spreads and intended lie. HE was referring to employees, however, employee was not a word when the laws were given, servant and slave were, however, even those words changed in meaning over the thousands and thousands of years. It's all the same as "My Bad", "Bro", "Dude", "Cool", etc. I am done in here. You people are something else.
No, Teresa, YOU are "something else." You misrepresent people's arguments here if not outright lie about them. You falsely accuse people of vile things and then mock them when they call it to your attention. You misrepresent the Christian religion and then ignore and vilify those who demonstrate how. You REALLY ARE "something else."
But all the best to you anyway.
Teresa, that is Lev 25:39 that you quoted. Read further please.
Yes, I studied Christianity as I have studied most religions. I believe wholeheartedly in God. But I do not require a book of doctrines set forth during Council of Nicaea to dicate to me what is right. Do you even know what that is? Here, I will give you points to look up in your research:
1) Constantine the Great
2) Council of Nicaea
2a) Creed
2b) Canon
3) Christology
As for me being Lucifer or an agent thereof (yes, you made that reference with the whole "The bible does warn us of this, and of false prophecy"), that is fairly insulting. Allow me to retort.
I do not care about Garrido. I am not posting here to defend him. I am posting here in hopes that others will shift from attacking him to attempting to help Jaycee, which at this moment is my only real concern. If caring about a victim and feeling empathy over human suffering whilest wanting others to focus their energy on the victim instead of the monster who is going to be dealt with anyway makes me a bad person, then I guess I am. If pointing out HUGE flaws in the nature of the bible as opposed to what everyone knows to be good and right makes me a bastard, then guilty as charged. I have the advantage of truth on my side though.
I'm stunned when i see the violence et the brutality of certain comments. Garrido committed grave acts, he remains nevertheless a man. And he was not only bad. The testimonies say that the girls were well-dressed, polished, smiling. He took charge of them.
American People seem to be violent, impulsive... The hatred will nor repair the evil which was made. The vengeance does not redo the past. Only love can change the world.
You, the Americans, (I am French), have the record of persons imprisoned by thousand inhabitants. Your society is violent, individualistic, selective. She generates delinquents and perverts more than somewhere else. Why so much violence in America?
Nevertheless, when American bombs kill whole families in villages in Afghanistan, you do not make so many stories...
Philou, I am an American who thinks you make excellent points. This country is filled with breast-beating ignoramuses, Bible-thumping hypocrites, and self-centered "individualists" who don't give a damn about other people or other countries except to the extent that those other people or countries impact their own lives. And while we rant and rave on and on in hate-filled rhetoric against "the crimimals," we do more to nurture them than we do to prevent them.
Our nation has done great things. But it is also a seething morass of pathology, crime, and death, and in most of the comments here, we see why.
Well, since it seems like you will not be buying any printed materials from Phillip for quite some time why not consider Excalibur Graphics & Printing for all of your printed needs - Toll Free 866 388 8886
Burn in hell! You are a disgusting asshole who raped and impregnated a little girl. I hope you get what you deserve in prison......death!
PLEAD GUILTY!!! Admit to your crimes and move your ass to jail! Why are we paying for attys. and a trial? Allow these 3 ladies to move on without you clouding their lives another moment!
Go to Jail...no one cares about your life/story!
And. you do NOT deserve a defense or a trial...SICKO!!
Off-topic completely, but....when was the last time frog-eaters actively participated in or won a war? Just curious.
Operation: Desert Storm was the last "war" the French were involved with that was considered a win.
Of course, for snarkiness sake, I will say a pretty big win the were involved in was the American Revolutionary War.
Desert Storm wasn't a war, since it wasn't declared by congress. But I get your point.
Everybody quit bickering you ball sound like a bunch of old ladies! Lets all just come to agree upon this.....Phillip & Nancy Garrido are piles of horse shit.
Goblinbee, I too admire the miraculous forgiveness that we occasionally see from victims or families of victims of heinous crimes. It's something I'd love to see us all aspire to, although I doubt that many of us would succeed. But, unfortunately, the predominant ideal of this culture is to hate...hate..hate the perpetrator and take violent, bloody revenge on him. And so crime continues to be pandemic, and we incarcerate more and more people.
As I wrote previously, I feel a conflict between my philosophical opposition to executing people for crimes I don't believe they could have refrained from committing, and my emotional desire to see them expunged from the earth for what they've done.
Yet, as you and I both have pointed out, execution presents the danger of coarsening the executioner and our entire society, it reputedly costs more to execute someone than it does to imprison them for life, and if we reduce the cost of execution by shortening the appeals process, we increase the risk of executing the innocent.
It's a tough, tough puzzle to solve.
As for the WA case of the abused girl, it sounds to me as though she may have gone through worse and bear worse physical and emotional scars from it than Jaycee and her daughters have and will. It sounds absolutely horrific. And the perpetrators deserve as bad or worse than
Garrido. They should be locked up for life or executed so that they can never do to another what they did to that poor girl, and so society can feel that a modest measure of justice has been served. Unfortunately, the law, as it's currently written, doesn't appear to provide for that.
Nagarguna, you make very interesting comments and observations.The Law is indeed the problem.Injustice as the Bible says, is sometimes hidden in the sacred name of the Law. It was an injustice to let this guy out of prison.He should have served his full term. There is no doubt that the Judge is partially to blame for this atrocity. He put a kidnapper back on the streets to harm us. Judicial kidnap is by far the biggest problem when it comes to Child Kidnap. People have no idea what is going on in the world. We are fighting the Devil himself.Let us hate the crime and not the person, for Hate is not from God. Justice must be as swift as a flying bullet. And a bullet don't cost much. The problems in the American Justice system are caused by the love of money. 60 000 forced Adoptions take place every year in the UK, most in secret.This is the work of Satan. The biggest membership in the world of the Church of Satan is in the USA.The Devil knows the Word of God better than you or I.These kidnappers are not Christians- they are evil to the core. Throw them into the fire of Hell. If this happened in China they would already be dead and buried at a price of $2.Get this job done for $1 and I will be impressed. I am not impressed.
WE ARE AT WAR AND WE SHALL WIN.
In my opinion, NOTHING they could do to you and your wife would be punishment enough for what you have done. I hope you rot in hell.
I agree with William on the previous page. Nagarjuna. You are an idiot. My mom was in here earlier, she made some pretty valid points. You had no right or wrong answer. You had an opinion. but your opinion frequently changed. is nothing less that your self proclaimed moral righteousness. opposed to what everyone else feels. You then go and degrade the American citizens to a foreigner. your own country? I highly doubt that. You are just here to damn American's now. First "supposed christians, now americans. Anything to keep the friction going. As if any country is not repulsed by the subject of this blog any less than Americans. I would love to see a show of hands, who has posted from the USA, and/or any other country. It's not about America, it's not about France, It's not about anything but the disgusting crime at hand.
so many have posted that your views have changed often in this blog. they have. you are not about truly against the hatred expressed for this man here, or prevention of it, or prevention of rape and pedophiles or anything other than your own need to write, to stand out from others, to gain attention upon yourself. You are ill buddy. your subject is not truly anything but a place to put your words, get someone riled with your quippy sarcasm. you have to be awfully lonely and mixed up to be willing to put your neck out with weird trait you carry.
easy to see when no one is willing to play your game with you anymore, no you will select someone who hasn't been around for a day or so to try to get it going again. get out of the house and get a life.
On another note. We love the Dugard family and wish you all the best. Hang in their ladies. It will and can only get better from here on in. Your future is shining ahead of you and our family has so very much pleasure imagining your smiles and care free hearts. I am happy you have each other during these difficult, but happy times.
We lived a few blocks from you for several years. We are so sorry we didn't know and couldn't help sooner. God has his plans for you now however. How could he not. The world is praying for you. Hugs. JC
Hi Nagarjuna, did you see my last post? If you did and had nothing to respond, that is fine; I just wondered if you had seen it.
Oops! Now I see your last comment. I will go and read it now.
It was not long before a predictable pattern began to emerge. One could almost say it was a ritual. On nights when Les and I were alone, she would let me watch TV after dinner until about 8:30 which I knew was my bath time. She would fill the tub with warm, scented water and then ring a little bell which let me know it was time to turn off the TV and hurry up the stairs to the bathroom. She would be seated on the toilet seat as I undressed and then she would take my hand and help me get into the tub. After a few minutes she would take a soapy face cloth and wash my back. I was left to wash my "private parts" by myself. Over a short period of time there were some subtle, almost imperceptible changes in the ritual. Now she was washing my back without a face cloth; only using her soft, soapy hands. I loved the feel of her soft hand washing, actually caressing, my back. And now she was using her hands to wash my chest. I was soon aware that she was spending a lot of time washing my undeveloped titties. She would gently squeeze my immature nipples which produced sensations I had never felt before. I was too embarressed to admit it but I loved having her fingers playing with my nipples. I now realize she was testing me to see how far she could go without upsetting me.
Not long after, she began washing my tummy and then one night when we were alone her hand was suddenly on my vagina. This was a word my mommy taught me. I guess I was a little shocked initially but it felt so nice I moaned and spread my legs wider hoping she would continue her ministrations. "Does that feel nice darling Amy?" she asked me in little more than a whisper. I was so excitied I couldn't speak and just nodded my head affirmatively. "You have such a sweet little kitten" she said. In my childlike response I told her I didn't have a kitten. Nanny went on to explain that grown up ladies had a pussy between their legs. And because some people thought the hair on a grown up lady's vagina made it look like a pussy cat. And that little girls like me had a kitten until we could grow hair above our little slits. A moment later she turned my head toward her and kissed me full on the lips. Wow, I thought, this is wonderful. After she broke the kiss she said, "would you like Nanny to show you how grown-ups kiss?" I said yes and once again her lips were placed upon mine. Soon I felt her tongue licking my lips and then pressing against them. Instinctively I knew what she wanted and slowly opened my mouth and allowed her tougue to enter my mouth. All kinds of strange, unfamiliar sensations coursed through my preteen body. After I had dried off we walked hand in hand to my bedroom. As always she read me a story and tucked me in for the night.
Okay, now it is time to call the FBI. NILAX one way or the other, you will be found. But hey, don't worry Nagarjuna will support you and your kind.
Brian K Pfeiffer, of Surreal Entertainment, Chicago, is a child predator! He drug raped 14-17yr old girls. Valium, Vicodin, GHB, Rohypnol. Now here all his details.
26 minutes ago · Comment · Like / Unlike
brian@surrealchicago.com
26 minutes ago · Delete
Brian K Pfeiffer 2961 N Elston Ave, Chicago, IL 60618. (773) 478-2723 - Listening to all this fuckers calls as well, sick bastard.
24 minutes ago · Delete
www.myspace.com/surreal27
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twitter.com/SurrealBrian
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Surreal was founded in 2001 by original members Tommy L, Harry G, and Brian Pfeiffer. We started out as a group of door guys that were asked to help promote the club where we worked improve their Friday nights by calling our friends and inviting them out. Now Brian likes to hide Valtrex in the drinks of minors! He regularly has 14 and 15yr old ... Read moregirls over at his house, lying on their backs, sleeping, legs apart, getting raped. Now being investigated by Chicago PD, Cook County Sheriff's Office, Illinois State Police, FBI, and US Marshals. FUCK BRIAN PFEIFFER. Silly cunt gonna get 20 years mother fucker.
11 minutes ago · Delete
I am going to use Skype to knock fuck out of his phone lines, and his cellphone. I hope he appreciates 10,000 calls a day, and 20,000 emails.
9 minutes ago · Delete
MORE INFORMATION ON Brian Pfeiffer
Read more
* (773) 459-8133 is a Cellular phone. it belongs to a man who drug rapes 14-17yr old chicks. there are also rumours around that he has a tiny cock.
... Read more
* The local time is 9:12 PM.
* Location: Winona, Minnesota - 3 repeat transmitters
2 seconds ago
2 minutes ago · Delete
1117 E Mark St
Winona, MN 55987
(773) 459-8133
oh dear, lol
Dr. David Webb, did you do your thing with this Nilax? Do you know how to figure out who he is, and have him put away?
Teresa,,,,,,I do not know how many and that is the scary part. But I know there will be some, and who knows where they will end up. But they will definitely be released, and they will definitely live somewhere, near someone. Right?
I could be wrong, but I think what Nagarjuna was originally trying to suggest was that the comments from some of the "normal" ppl here make them just as sick minded as Garrido. I mean, honestly, ppl. Read some of the vulgar words that came from your own minds. Very sick and evil thoughts for "normal" ppl to direct to a sick and evil person like Garrido.
Some of you ppl sound just as horrid as Garrido.
I have to say that if Garrido is sick or just selfish, either way, I believe in the death penalty, as there is so much possibility that anyone like him would be free in the future, due to errors in paperwork, human errors, escape, whatever.
Nagarjuna, if you believe Garrido is sick, then wouldnt you also believe he may be suffering so much in this sickness, that we would be doing him a favor to euthanize (execute) him?
Mark Hamilton: You said "It was an injustice to let this guy out of prison.He should have served his full term."
I havent read what his "full term" was? But I doubt that it was FOREVER, which is the true term he should have served.
Why is it that we will kill pitbulls or alligators for taking a human life, but we give thinking human beings a second chance to harm us?
I adopted my friends baby boy because his dad murdered his mother 2 hours after he got out of jail for choking the skin off of her neck the night before, and 2 months after being released from prison.....FOR THE SECOND TIME!! This monster will be released, once again, in about 7 years. I am almost certain he will come looking for my son at that time.
God doesn't forgive those who commit capital sin you sick fuckers. I hope that when you go to jail, da boys in there make sure you feel real pain. Hope you die fast, cause if not you are going to feel the worst pain ever to experience. Boys in Jail: You guys may have done things wrong in life but when sick fucks like this get to you, your mistakes are some what over looked. You do some good deeds even in jail. Thank you. Haha you sick fucks, rot slowly and painfully!
God doesn't forgive those who commit capital sin you sick fuckers. I hope that when you go to jail, da boys in there make sure you feel real pain. Hope you die fast, cause if not you are going to feel the worst pain ever to experience. Boys in Jail: You guys may have done things wrong in life but when sick fucks like this get to you, your mistakes are some what over looked. You do some good deeds even in jail. Thank you. Haha you sick fucks, rot slowly and painfully!
Denise: I have one living next to me. He was a Tier 3 when he moved in. By law, the law is suppose to notify all his neighbors, grocery stores, gas station... everyone. The didn't notify us. Because I knew his parents who lived there for 3 years, and gave the house to him. I never thought anything of it. However, weird things were happening. I would find him staring at me from over the back yard common wall. No response when I would see him until I would throw my arms up in the air, like, what the hell? I would come home and think I was being paranoid and blowing it off when things would be moved in my house. Dishes down from the cupboard, things I didn't think I did, but stupidly blamed myself. One evening coming home from work, I could see the lights on from the back of my house before coming around the street. Thought that was weird, I never leave my lights on when I am not home. When I got in, the lights were out. Really knew I had to do something about this, but what? When I came home a week or so later, my computer was on and the screen lit up. My computer had a 15 minute sleep mode on it. I did a background check on him and found he was listed as a Tier 3 rapist. I immediately wrote to the online police department site of what had been happening and what I had found. Why was I or my other neighbors not notified. It took a week to get any response after I kept pressing. This man when 22 date raped a 17 year old. Got married in prison.... is still sick in the head, but, what many people don't know is that approximately a year ago, about 4 months after he moved next door to me, the Supreme Court reduced nearly all one time offenders Tier 3 levels to Tier 1. Why, because these pedophiles went crying to the Court that the system was to hard on them. They "only committed one crime". Without taking into account how the public feels, without looking at the studies, the Supreme Court reversed what it took years and years of proof of their recidivism at the public's expense, and flushed it down the toilet, again allowing them more opportunity to secretly hide and more opportunity to strike again in being allowed this.
As Gariddo, or whatever the hell his name is, this neighbor of mine is married. They met in prison. When I had enough of trying to catch him on video and never getting to the recorder on time, I finally confronted him for peeping. I literally flipped out on him and told him I knew it was him in my house, what he was up to, to stay the hell away from our common wall and to stop watching me. I called the police this time. No more emails, they insisted I call when anything at all happened. They came, his wife cried, "now everyone in the neighborhood knows he is a rapist", poor us. The police warned him, if he stalked again, if he went to that wall peering in at me again, that would be considered harassment and he would be arrested.
He was in shock when I confronted him and called the police, he didn't know I knew, and scampered away, but given time, they get bold again, the next day, he went to the police station or his parole officer's office, had his mugshot printed, came home stapled it to a 7 foot board and posted that mugshot at the backyard common wall facing me. I called the police. Two separate officers, who when they saw what he did were disgusted. Leaving my house angry at this, they come back telling me how upset THIS FAMILY NEXT DOOR WAS. The wife was in the front yard bauling they said, they have kids, he is "not that bad of a rapist", it was consensual sex. Then why did he do 7 years in prison, why didn't the police check the records for the truth in what happened. WHAT?????? Why were they come to me asking me for my pity on this stalker. WHY IN THE HELL DID THEY TELL ME IF I WAS UNCOMFORTABLE WITH HIM DID THEY TELL ME MAYBE I SHOULD SELL MY HOUSE AND MOVE!!!@!@
You know what.... while I have to sleep with a gun, and am afraid to leave home for fear of him being in my house when I walk in my door, and I have to resort to trying my best to find some sort of work from home because of this.... and when my hobbie was my yard work and I cannot go into my yard anymore, and I hear sympathizers like this creep Nagarjuna, criticizing those who are living in reality and rightfully airing their hate and contempt for being forced to live with and support these inhuman vile scumbags, it simply pisses me off. First of all, he's a man, he will never, ever know the extent the act of rape can do to anyone, much less that act on a child, or in this case 18 years of it. To never acknowledge an understanding for the direct or indirect victims and blame the pedophiles actions on a 100% unfounded excuse of illness alone is simply despicable in my eyes as well as so many others who are sick to death of it. The governments way, the Supreme Court's way doesn't work. They put the innocent communities in prison, and they stick to their stubborn guns that prison time is enough. THE HELL IT IS.
Nagarjuna has not had any compassion for the multitudes of people who obviously show some deep seeded pain and all of whom who are lashing out because they can do nothing else. Rather, he will attempt to shame them and give unfounded excuses for these pedophiles who absolutely never fail to commit their crimes again. They could care less about people like Nagarjuna supporting them, they just want what they want, and people like Nagarjuna keep giving it to them. As far as I am concerned Nagarjuna and the Supreme Court and all the law makers can go to hell. We need more women in our government to handle this properly. Men will never understand, as they are never to fear someone stalking and haunting them like this.
Compassion Nagarjuna wants. Screw him.
Denise... Girardo's sentence was 50 years... he did 11.
Denise: Does you son's father know where you live? Why are they letting him out after murder? Our government really really really sucks.
Teresa, I am sorry to hear that you have to live in those circumstances. I am happy that you at least know to be aware of that particular neighbor. I still believe that if everyone in every neighborhood got together, and flooded the officials with calls demanding stricter laws, something would have to be changed.
I call my Congresswoman so often to bitch that medicare doesnt pay for in home services for the elderly. I have even sent an email. But I am only one person. A simple nobody at that. It would do me no good to go to my neighbors, as I live pretty much in a ghetto, and my neighbors are waiting for their loved ones to come home on parole. pfft.
50 years is not forever. Especially when you consider that nobody serves their entire sentence. But most serve more than one fifth, at least.
Venting your anger is one thing, Teresa. But the things ppl say here are just plain idiotic sometimes. Things such as GOD WILL GET YOU, followed by 3 paragraphs of cuss words and gory unthinkable wishes. It doesnt make sense.
As most would tell you they would not go through with it, it is plain to see, they are just words... words coming out in bizarre rage. It is the government that needs to recognize why. These people are sick and tired of being dumped on with the persist life destroyers. It's enough to make anyone absolutely mad.
Teresa, I am not sure if he knows where I live yet or not. This is a small town, and everyone knows everyone. If he doesnt know yet, he can easily find out. Everyone knows of the case, everyone knows I am the one with the baby, and the murder will still be fresh in their memories as this monster was given 18 years and has to serve only 85% of it.
I have no idea why they are letting him out after murder. I do know that a year after he was sentenced to 18 yrs for murder, there was a case that a guy had shot at a cop a few times. Missed the officer but shot the cop car. That man was sentenced to 23 yrs. Both the murderer and the would-be murderer are of the same race, so that wouldnt be a factor here.
I dont think either of them should ever see freedom. Since both of them are murderers, the one just didnt have good aim. But he meant to murder that officer.
Teresa, I understand where you are coming from when you say most wouldnt follow through on their threats, etc.. But, how can you call someone a sick person while you are verbally wishing sick things to happen to them? To me, it compares to telling a child to watch his f*cking mouth!! lol
Anyhow, that doesnt really concern me. People can vent the way they want to vent. My main complaint at first, was that the Garridos will not read these words, but some day, Jaycees children will, out of curiosity, maybe read these comments. And I think that having to read so many times how their lives were so messed up and seeing RAPED, TORTURED, etc etc will be hurtful for THEM.
But you say ppl are sick of being dumped on, and it is true. But we need to be out lobbying our officials more. We cant just sit here and rant and rave bcoz we are fed up. We have to take action. ALL OF US.
Another case of discrimination. Cops are more important than murdered women.
To me, it doesn't matter if Girardo ever reads this. That is part of my point here. All these people leaving messages cannot possibly believe he will read it either. They are venting a very deep seeded frustration. They want the government to read it.... Do you see anyone caring, when they know they should that their wishes violate the law. The are rebelling. Why... because the government is not protecting them as they should. They are shunning the government, whether knowingly or not, that is what they are doing. I could care less whether a pedophile knows what we think, because they don't care about anything others feel, only what they want, they practically have the government wrapped around their finger anyway, why would they care what the public thinks. I do care about the people in this kind of pain who feel they need to air it out. It is better than acting it out.
You are absolutely right. Dont think I wasnt outraged about the differences in sentences either. I will never understand why the monster didnt get the death penalty. He met more than one qualification on the death penalty list. He killed her in a taxi cab(public transportation). She was cradling her son in her arms as he slit her throat, and stabbed all around the baby. (The baby was literally drowning in his mothers blood) Which makes it 2 victims. Plus they could have added anything CHILD related....endangerment,abuse, whatever. He premeditated it (he had been released from jail an hour earlier from choking the skin off her neck the night before) And there was probably 3 strikes, which wont get you the death penalty, but still, more than 18 years.
My friend will not be free in 18 years. She was sentenced to ETERNITY.
Our justice system FAILS. And Jaycee, her children, and countless others have to suffer for it.
Oh. And Garrido is so messed up in his head that I doubt any of this will even faze him. Did you hear him speaking about all of this? He is in lala land.
lobbying will take years and years to accomplish. It takes people, multitudes of people.... good old fashioned sit ins. I don't know that number of people. I don't believe the girls will be reading this for a long time to come. I know that do have some very good help with them and Jaycee's loving mother. They have work to do, but they will get through this. I just hope the communities never forget, and always always be there for them. Help them up when they fall, because they will. They will need people for at least as many years as Jaycee was tortured by this maniac and his wife.
I spoke with an officer once about vigilantes. He said we cant have a society of vigilantes. Bah. Im surprised we dont see vigilante work every day, considering the light slap on the wrist criminals get anyhow.
Lobbying does take alot of ppl. But the ppl would actually have to get up off their sofas and actually make some type of action before anything could ever be considered.
I think about the wrongs of the world each and every day. I feel that I have a good life right now. But I would love to change things for so many other ppl. The changes are so simple but the govt makes it seem so impossible. I am constantly trying to find the "right office" to contact about certain things. Nobody seems to care. But I am one person.
But then we have to always be careful to be politically correct about everything. Because as sure as you and I and the rest of the world know that its only right to put Garrido out for good, there will be that one person (Nagarjuna) that disagrees, so we have to be fair to him too. Did you know we are no longer allowed to use the phrase MASTER BEDROOM? jajaja!! It is not politically correct and it is offensive. pfft
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/8235075.stm
Page last updated at 01:07 GMT, Thursday, 3 September 2009 02:07 UK
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Garrido's wife 'misses children'
Nancy and Phillip Garrido in court
The couple face a number of charges, including kidnap and rape
Phillip Garrido's wife says she misses the two daughters her husband allegedly fathered with Jaycee Lee Dugard, the girl they are accused of kidnapping.
Nancy Garrido's lawyer, Gilbert Maines, told CBS television that she saw them as family and "loved them very much".
Officials say Mr Garrido fathered Ms Dugard's two daughters, now 11 and 15.
But they have cleared him of links to a series of unsolved prostitute murders after a four-day search of his home in California failed to find any evidence.
'Little lost'
The Garridos were arrested last week and charged with the kidnapping, rape and imprisonment of Ms Dugard, who was 11 when she was snatched outside her home in 1991.
They have pleaded not guilty.
family photo released by Carl Probyn shows his stepdaughter, Jaycee Lee Dugard who went missing in 1991.
In pictures: The Garrido home
Shock and disbelief in Antioch
Profile: Phillip Garrido
Mr Maines, the lawyer for 54-year-old Nancy Garrido, told the CBS Early Show that his client was "distraught, frightened and a little lost" following her arrest.
"What she said is that there came a time when she felt they were a family, and she loved the girls very much, and she loved Jaycee very much," he said.
According to Ms Dugard's stepfather, the girls have grown up believing that she was their elder sister, and that Nancy Garrido - who married convicted rapist Phillip Garrido in 1981 while he was in jail - was their mother.
No evidence
Ms Dugard, now 29, had allegedly been kept as a prisoner for 18 years in a secret compound of tents and sheds behind the Garrido home in Antioch, east of San Francisco.
Her identity was only discovered last week, after Garrido was ordered to a parole meeting by police officers.
He had been noticed acting suspiciously with the two girls as he tried to enter the University of California, Berkeley, campus to hand out religious literature.
Also on Wednesday, police in neighbouring Pittsburg said that no evidence linking Phillip Garrido to the murders of several prostitutes in the 1990s had been discovered at the property.
"Aside from a few items that will require further forensic examination before they can be completely excluded, we did not locate any evidence to connect the Garridos to Pittsburg's unsolved cases," Lt Brian Addington said in a statement.
Police discovered an unidentified bone fragment at a property next door to the Garridos' Antioch home over the weekend, but they said it was too early to determine whether it was human or animal.
US media reports have said Ms Dugard bonded with 58-year-old Garrido and had helped to run his printing firm.
Layout of the back garden where Jaycee Lee Dugard is said to have lived
In detail
Бездна анальной оккупации.
Denise: I fell asleep after writing partial responses to your writings, one of your comments that I missed last night was:
Teresa, I understand where you are coming from when you say most wouldnt follow through on their threats, etc.. But, how can you call someone a sick person while you are verbally wishing sick things to happen to them? To me, it compares to telling a child to watch his f*cking mouth!! lol
It really doesn't matter how I can call someone sick, nor that I can understand it. No matter what it compared to, it is reality. What these people are saying is real, why they are saying it is "not that they are sick" but fed up.... hands are tied, cannot do anything, nor do they have control of what the government put upon us. If the government and people like Nagarjuna want to sympathize with these pedophiles, and leave the public screaming out in these fashions, I don't think anyone has any right to compare or read anything less into their words.
Now, I am outta here for the day.
Teresa,,,you say that our hands are tied. But I do not agree. It is just that ppl will not get together and flood the govt with the same interest all at one time. This is what I believe.
I am also off to work now. Have a blessed day everyone.
Actually before I go, my statement was partially wrong or incomplete. People are physically becoming sick due to these negligent acts of protecting these pedophiles, an extending the rights to them of which they should have lost forever at their first offense. If and when they are released should never ever mean that they have gained any right to privacy. Not that I believe they should have ever been released, nor that prison should have been the only sentence.
I really think Nagarjuna is a self-centered hypocrite.
Ab0VetHeSkY: Makes one wonder why, but I don't dare ask, lest we hear more.
Hi Nagarjuna, thank you for your thoughtful response. I admire and appreciate your perspective so much.
About the case in Washington -- as I mentioned, I have a friend who used to be a co-worker and friend of the perpetrator/stepmother. He is shocked to his core about what has come out, but still feels fondly towards her. It was his saying this that sent me off on my recent intellectual journey, because I found that just his saying it had a chilling effect on me. I don't feel like I have the love, compassion, forgiveness in me that some people have, and I am wondering how people get to that place. It does seem like a more vibrant way to live (proactive rather than reactive), and that the love would have a ripple effect. A win/win. Maybe my friend has the perfect blend of outrage and compassion -- I will have to ask him what he thinks the consequences of her actions should be.
As far as what Jaycee and her daughters have suffered or not suffered, I think we know so little at this point (and can never really know). Garrido is a violent man with violent sexual tendencies. He had an 11-year-old girl in his power who he could force to do whatever he wanted. She was completely at his mercy. In his recent, rambling document to the FBI it is said that he described "how sex with his 'wife' had changed from an act of anger to an act of love," and it is unclear if he meant Jaycee or his actual wife, Nancy. Either way, some woman or girl has suffered under his violence for years. He was violent with his first wife as well.
We know that Jaycee was impregnated at age 13 or 14 and gave birth in a shed or tent at age 14 without a doctor or midwife. Garrido had just been let out of jail when he impregnated her (he did about 4 months for a parole violation during her captivity -- Nancy apparantly kept the home fires burning while he was gone). Her body was probably not mature enough before that to get pregnant, or she would have been even younger. To carry and deliver a child is no mean feat, even for an adult woman. We don't know what this young girl suffered.
And it was the daughters' strange, robotic behavior that alerted the police in the first place. Ugh.
little brown girls are the best
Justin, I appreciate your taking the time and trouble to tell me what you and your mom think of me and of the way I've conducted myself here. You've said some pretty harsh things, but I'm sure that many would agree with most if not all of your criticisms, and I would be the first to admit that I'm not proud of everything I've said in this forum. It's actually not so much what I've said as how I've said some of it.
I agree with Vlabd that I've done a poor job of conveying the empathy and compassion I DO feel for Jaycee and her family and for those here who feel frightened and furious about what happened to these good people.
Please try to understand that when I believe in something, I have a stubborn tendency to browbeat others with it in heavy-handed ways instead of stating my case with more delicate diplomacy and then moving on. I've always been this way, and I know it's a fault of mine that I need to work on. I need to be more empathetic to other people's feelings instead of coming on like gangbusterswith my opinions. And you're right, Justin, pretty much all I've been doing here is expressing my opinions--my opinions of Garrido's mental health and its effect on his actions, my opinions about the fair and just handling of sick or defective people whose sickness or defectiveness causes them to commit heinous crimes, my opinions on the free will vs. determinism issue, my opinions on how Christians are supposed to regard and treat the Garridos of the world, my opinions on how our culture inculcates fear and hatred that produces more and more Garridos, and so on.
But then, I don't think I'm the only one here who's largely just expressed opinions. I think that's what most of us have been doing and what you've done with your comments to me. It's your opinion that I'm a "lonely," "mixed up," attention-seeking, self-righteous "idiot" who doesn't really give a damn about Jaycee and her family or, for that matter, the Garridos or justice or any of the other causes I've upheld. No, I'm basically here simply to bash America, Christians, and good people who take and vent proper outrage against the Garridos and their monstrous crimes.
(To be continued)
(Part 2)
Well, Justin, I respect the fact that this is what you think of me and that you've stood up to me and given it to me straight. But I want to be straight with you in return. I truly and passionately believe in the opinions I've been expressing here. I'm not here just to showboat or rile people up. And I'll tell you something else. I think I've presented some pretty solid arguments for my opinions, even if most people here and you yourself disagree and have spent far more time criticizing and, in some cases, attacking me personally than you have addressing my arguments themselves.
And I want to be forthright with you about something else. I think you and others who've stated that my "views have changed often on this blog" are wrong, if you mean that I've contradicted myself and that this indicates that I don't really believe what I've been saying and that I'm essentially just laboring to keep fanning the flames of discord. I don't think I've contradicted myself at all.
But if you really believe otherwise, I invite you and anyone else who shares your belief to point out even one instance of where I've contradicted myself in some revealing way or in any way, and we can see if your criticism stands up to scrutiny. And then, if you'd like, we can examine some of your other criticsms of me and see just how valid they really are.
Or, if you'd prefer, we can dispense with the personal stuff and simply take a closer look at some of the opinions I've expressed about Garrido's "sickness," the fairness and justice of hating and torturing him or of venting these emotions and desires, and so forth.
Now I have the sense that your first inclination will be to take my invitation and "shove it." That is, you'll want to say that you have better things to do with your precious time than engage an "idiot" like me in any kind of discussion of any of this. After all, you may reason, that would merely further my pathetic attempt to be the center of attention and to keep provoking anger so that I can perversely feed off it.
However, I'd like to respectfully suggest that in criticizing me the way you have, you've taken on something of a moral obligation to give me a fair hearing if I ask for it, and I DO ask for it, and that to do anything less would show a lack of integrity if not outright cowardice on your part. You see, I have the impression, true or false as it may be, that you're a fairly young guy who's confronted me the way you have because you don't like what you've seen me do, and you want to stand up for yourself, be strong, be a man and give me a piece of your mind. And that's perfectly respectable, although the name calling and some of your disparaging statements about someone you've never met, much less hung out with and gotten to know well enough to justifiably call me those names and make those statements, may be a little less respectable.
But my point is that a real man doesn't hit and run. If he criticizes someone, and the person he criticizes asks him to clarify what he means and defend it, the critic has an obligation to comply with the request. I hope and trust that you will do this, and that you'll do it with all of the courtesy and respect that I'm according you now and will continue to show you during our discussion.
Fair enough?
Goblinbee, I don't know how to bring one's emotions into line with one's thoughts or opinions. For instance, it is my thought or opinion that none of us has free will and that Garrido's unfree will manifested itself in profoundly sick or defective ways, and, yet, I still feel angry with people who act in ways that I don't like, and I feel very angry with those who abuse or torture anyone. If I may engage in a little pop-psychological introspection, it occurs to me that one reason why I may have been so forceful in my criticism of the anger and hatred of others here toward Garrido and others like him is because I feel that same anger and hatred myself but am uncomfortable with it because it contradicts my beliefs, and I've disowned it in myself and projected it onto others where I can attack it.
In any case, perhaps it DOES help to keep one's beliefs in mind, and when one feels a conflict between them and his emotions, to go on gently but firmly asserting one's beliefs to oneself and others while remaining tolerant and patient toward the slow progress of bringing the emotions in line.
Now some might say that the emotions should triumph in a case like Garrido's. What he did was so monstrous, hurtful, and harmful to Jaycee and to so many other people that we shouldn't care about higher beliefs or principles regarding fairness and justice, or, if the conflict between them is too acute for us, we should bring our beliefs in line with our emotions rather than the other way around.
But I just can't agree with this. It seems to me that one of the distinguishing qualities of human beings is their capacity, even if often under-utilized, to rise above their basest emotions, instincts, and impulses and live according to their higher principles of goodness, fairness, justice, mercy, compassion, and so forth. Indeed, it seems that either we must learn to do a better job of this, or we may well be doomed as a species.
And when I do that myself, such as in the case of the Garridos, I must continue to uphold my view that sickness or defect made Garrido do what he did, and that we should not hate and vindictively punish people for committing heinous crimes because they were sick or defective.
I just need to find a less-hamfisted and more effective way of doing this.
Well, be gentle with yourself. You were coming under some pretty serious attack for just being level-headed!
Goblingee, well, I'm not TOO down on myself over the way I've behaved here. :-)But, if I wanted to persuade people that I'm right or that they should, at least, open their minds to the possibility of that I am, then I've been doing a proverbially piss poor job of it here.
And that makes me wonder if there's a way to cultivate real and mutually beneficial dialogue between people regarding controversial and even very hot button issues such as crime and punishment, abortion, healthcare reform, and so on. It seems increasingly evident to me that it can't be done in places like this at times like this when emotions run so high and people have no willingness to open their minds and hearts to anyone who says anything that conflicts with their outrage and vindictiveness.
But I wonder if there's any online forum in which one can have this kind of dialogue with anyone. Well, actually, it seems as though you and I are having a semblance of it here, and I've made an overture to Justin and everyone else here to have it with them too. But I won't hold my breath waiting for them to accept my invitation. :-)
Denise, you wrote: "I could be wrong, but I think what Nagarjuna was originally trying to suggest was that the comments from some of the "normal" ppl here make them just as sick minded as Garrido. I mean, honestly, ppl. Read some of the vulgar words that came from your own minds. Very sick and evil thoughts for "normal" ppl to direct to a sick and evil person like Garrido."
You're not wrong at all about what I was trying to suggest. You hit the proverbial nail right on the head.
"But, how can you call someone a sick person while you are verbally wishing sick things to happen to them? To me, it compares to telling a child to watch his f*cking mouth!! lol
That's an excellent point, Denise, and I suspect it's of much greater concern or consequence than you may think. I DO care how people "vent" at times like these, because I believe, although I don't claim to be able to prove, that when people vent extreme hatred and sadistic fantasies in response to stories like the Garrido story, they not only fail to help the victims in these stories or make society better, but they actually poison their own psyches and the psyches of those who read this stuff and get caught up in it, and society as a whole becomes coarser and meaner, and this, in turn, helps to alienate more people on the edge and turn them into full-blown abusers, rapists, and murderers who dehumanize their victims the way society has dehumanized people like them.
So, I believe it is vital that when stories like these surface, as they inevitably will on occasion, not only the most moral but also the healthiest response is to feel concern and compassion for the victim(s), and appropriate anger toward the perpetrator accompanied by appropriate efforts to discourage and prevent these kinds of ghastly crimes from recurring. But, by all means, don't let your anger and hatred run away with you and whip you into a sadistic frenzy that makes you less than human rather than fully human.
We can do better, and we NEED to do better.
Nagarjuna, good that you are keeping things in perspective. :)
That IS something good that can come out of debate -- the modifying and clarifying of our own position. Or the wanting to step back and take a different approach, a different tack. Not everyone is humble enough, as you are, to state publicly where they think they were wrong, but I think seeds get planted.
For myself, I tend to shy away from contributing in a debate once it gets too abstract/academic/intellectual. Not that I don't admire such debate, it's that I either don't have the training or the intellectual chops to engage. For years I was on a closed email list with a group of friends (who wanted to stay in touch after we had all moved out of Utah to various states). There were maybe 15 or 20 of us. At times some of the threads would get way too intellectual for me to participate in; I would maybe follow along for a while, but would eventually lose interest. You remind me (in good ways) of some of the men on that list (my own dear partner included). Very smart, very articulate, very intellectually and philosophically curious. I doubt I could keep up!
What I find sick is the fact there are people having open discussions about crap on this disgusting mans blog. Get a life people!!
Megan, I keep forgetting I'm even on the guy's blog! Then I'll remember, and it certainly is a strange venue. Okay, people, let's "take it outside!"
Goblinbee, I hope you haven't left the room just yet. I guess I can understand Megan's objection to our trying to turn this blog into a forum for substantive and probing dialogue, although I'm not sure what evil she worries will accrue if we do, but I think comments, ideas, and, yes, accusations have been presented here that deserve to be addressed before we "take it outside."
I agree that debate has its purpose in that it can serve as a crucible in which quality conclusions and sound and compelling arguments supporting them are forged. But the problem with debate is that it usually becomes a game or even a war that people are determined to win by proving their own preconceived opinions and destroying the opposition rather than it being about seeking truth. The purpose of a debate is to win at any and all costs.
But the purpose of a DIALOGUE is to arrive at truth or, at least, mutual understanding of an issue by opening your heart and mind to what everybody has to share on an emotional and experiential as well as rational level and to learn on many levels and grow in deep wisdom as a result.
Of course, we can't sustain true dialogue in a place such as this, and I'm not sure we can do it anywhere else in cyberspace unless, perhaps, it's through the kind of private communication you describe between a small group of friends, only now they're dedicated to dialogue rather than debate and they have and are able to adhere to a viable method of making it work.
Judging from what I see here, you definitely have the "chops" to fit smoothly into the band. Speaking for myself, I'm no erudite intellectual, and I believe that the arguments I've expressed here have been pretty commonsensical even if, paradoxically, hardly anyone here seems to understand much less agrees with them. :-)My guiding light in any such discussion is to avoid letting the intellect run away with itself into Ivory Tower fantasyland and to "keep it real" or connected to the real world. Maybe some of the things I've said about free will have gotten "out there" a little bit, but even there, the gist of what I'm saying is pretty simple: everything we think and do has a cause that makes it necessary or inevitable at the time we do it. Thus, free will--i.e., the capacity to will and do other than how we actually willed and did at a particular time under a particular set of circumstances--is an illusion.
All that wouldn't have happened, had he had his testicles cut off by someone when he was in prison the last time... Hopefully, this mistake will be corrected soon - whoever does that deserves to be forgiven his own sins.
MadOne, castration doesn't guarantee that a person won't reoffend, unless he dies from a makeshift castration. But, at least, had Garrido been castrated, preferably by a skilled doctor, he wouldn't have been able to impregnate a young girl.
However, had he been kept in prison the way he should have been, even under the sentencing guidelines of the time, this tragedy could never have occurred. But now that there's virtually no doubt that he'll be spending the rest of his miserable life in a maximum security prison, to castrate him would be tantamount to, if I may borrow one of my favorite expressions, "putting legs on a snake."
Nagarjuna: It may be a mistake for me to say anything at all to you, but I am going to take that chance.
First I would like to say thank you to my son, Justin, for trying to protect me from further argument with Nagarjuna. I love you very much Justin, and I am so very proud of you for expressing our love for Jaycee and her family so eloquently. However, as you stand over my shoulder begging me to get back in here, It's my turn to protect you.
Nagarjuna, I do not have time tonight to copy and paste each and every contradiction, I may attempt to do so this weekend, but not tonight. I will, however, give this one last attempt to reason with you, but first it must be said... I am only doing this because you showed a glimmer of hope through what appears to acknowledgment, (not apology) of one or two of your most offensive comments or lack of acknowledgment towards rather important issues.
For those people who think it is sick to carry on conversations in this blog, I understand how you feel, I am sorry you feel that way and I in no way continue to offend you. However, there is no other better place to discuss these damning pedophile issues than here at this time.
Denise, I am all for approaching the government. I don't have the experience to do so, but if there is a plausible way to do so, I am in. Another however.... However, calling these government entities or e-mailing these entities one at a time will just not work. No one knows what the others have done, no one knows how to get the accurate count from the government. It has to be done in a way that the government knows, the people know how many people petitioned/lobbied or it can be flushed. If you, or anyone know of a non-violent viable solution, I am in.
Nagarjuna: One perfect example of why you outrage people, and why they continue to give up communicating with you is written by you at the top of this page: You wrote: "As for the WA case of the abused girl, it sounds to me as though she may have gone through worse and bear worse physical and emotional scars from it than Jaycee and her daughters have and will."
Do you even comprehend what such a statement tells people. Add to that, that you have not shown any empathy towards this pedophile or any pedophile's acts to which I have read. No Nagarjuna.... Don't argue this, saying "yes, this was a vile act" and then continuing on to with your argument to protect pedophiles does not count. It is even more enraging to those that read your posts. Especially when you use unfounded "claims" that this man was "ill" or "sick". There is not one iota of proof to those claims, therefore, your argument totally contradicts, an attempt of gleaming over what "you know must be said" re: an understanding for the gravity of physical and mental pain inflicted upon the subjects of this vile act. In other words, it is a half ass attempt at showing concern for what is expected of any human being, but appears to be an act. Now I didn't say this for argument or to pain you, I am telling you, it is one of the reasons people will not debate your cause. Why? Because your cause is very inhumane to those that really count here and most people do not want to hear it, especially when your ear has been completely closed to anyone else.
I do not recall you ever addressing the opposition, or an understanding of the pains of others. Do you know Nagarjuna, this is a trait of the pedophile? Maybe if you understood that, you will understand why you have no true followers in your plight.
Now, I could be wrong, while I am having it looked into, but I believe you and Goblinbee are one and the same person. You seem to need this stroking supplied by Goblinbee, and the timing of it, is always impeccable. I am sorry if I am wrong, but I have worked in law for a very long time, and I know how to follow the evidence of such tactics, I do it on a regular basis. In any event, I don't care, what is done is done. But I am confronting it here and now, because if you want to debate, at least with me, the games must stop here.
This condition, as well as that you stop quoting what others say in opposition to your statement, and respond with the same accusation that people are not acting Christian like in making their statements. First, you are not a Christian. Second, very few in here claimed to be Christians when they made their statements and all you do is attempt to tear down Christians by claiming that are by expressing that each statement was left by a Christian. Third, if you are not a Christian, and just because you may have read the words of the bible, does not mean you even understand Christianity to argue against it. So I will not debate anything with you if you attempt to use this argument again.
Third. Drop the big words and come down to earth. This is not a business, this is a blog, a written conversation. I understand the intellect is important to you, but it truly makes no one person more superior to another, nor, more believable to another just because you have it. You want others to listen, and not read something into that, which most people will, then come down to earth, use the language, even others use as a second language and more understandable.
I realize this is long, which makes my next request sound rediculous, but I don't want to deal with anymore long argumentative posts. There is no need to respond to everyone, picking apart sections of their statements as you have been.
Let me start the ball rolling. What do you think of Nilax's post? What do you think this person's punishment should be? How is that punishment going to protect and benefit society? And, if your response is to keep him in prison for life, why should a strained income of a hard working family have to dole out their grocery money to support what "they" detest so much, and of whom have been violated to the extremes they have been violated?
Hi Nagarjuna. Well, I left for a while, but only because life intervened, not because I really think I have to go (since we've droned on this long, what could a little more hurt?). It's been funny to me how often when reading along I really am oblivious that it's the guy's blog, and then someone will say something like "I hope you rot in hell, muthafucka!", and I'll think, "Whoa, who's he talking to??", and THEN I remember.
I've scrolled back and seen lots of the violent comments and most of them are vile, but some of them are truly hilarious. There is vile and poorly worded, and then there is vile and wonderful. I snorted at this one (can't remember the author): "Didn't think so, please do the rest of humanity a favor, go talk god with a grizzly bear, while carrying a fresh salmon, and wearing a bacon suit."
I always give funny a pass.
But, yes, dialogue is much more what I'm interested in than debate. How right you are.
For those of you wondering, Nagarjuna is my alter ego, my better half. Or was it me that was his better half? (Nagarjuna, we forgot to work that out ahead of time!)
Well, that was a clear answer Nagarjuna. You haven't had dialogue... only argument. Great way to prevent yourself from having to respond to the questions that truly need answers, if in fact people were to ever think of believing or going along with your solution to the problem. Good luck with it. We are done here.
Teresa, I'm not sure what Goblinbee's intent was with the "alter-ego" comment. I'm guessing it was simply to inject some levity into the proceedings. But since that wasn't its apparent effect with you and perhaps others here, let me state for the record that I am NOT the same person commenting here as Goblinbee. And if you feel some need to confirm this by employing the investigatory skills to which you alluded, I encourage you to go ahead.
I would like to have respectful discussion if not actual dialogue here, but I realize that this requires us to be able to trust one another.
Teresa, I appreciate your "taking a chance" on me, and I'll do my best to make you glad you did or, at least, not regret that you did.
You've raised many points, yet, if I understand you correctly, you seem not to want me to respond to all of them with my customary thoroughness. If I've misinterpreted you, please let me know. If I've read you correctly, I think you're trying to place me in a verbal straightjacket that just won't do. If I'm going to address your points, I need to do it as I see fit. But I've come to realize from what's transpired here so far that I need to find a clearer and more respectful way to do it, and I hope that you will respond in kind.
By the way, you don't need to "protect" you son from engaging me. I hope that he'll speak for himself in reply to my previous comments to him. I promise I won't bite. :-)
It is not you or your comments I protect my son from. It is the anger state in which he was in when he read first sorrow and understanding, and then the turn about doing the exact same thing as what you stated you were not happy with. He is a very true and loving hearted individual, I would prefer he not respond in anger, and wait to clear his thoughts. He just needed a gentle reminder, so we handled that, and he may later respond at another time.
I have to get some sleep, so there is no discussion left in me tonight, however, if you would like to just answer those questions, or at least the first question, that would be a great start. There is no discussion if both sides are not heard. While I have heard you repeat your views so many times, I have not heard you answer any of these questions asked of you before, so I think it is fair to ask them again. I'll be glad to respond tomorrow evening.
Teresa, you wrote: "I am only doing this because you showed a glimmer of hope through what appears to acknowledgment, (not apology) of one or two of your most offensive comments or lack of acknowledgment towards rather important issues."
I concede that I've expressed myself somewhat indelicately here at times, whether or not the opinions I expressed without due tactfulness were, in fact, ill-founded. But I'd be remiss if I didn't point out to you, although without any rancor, that you have asserted and failed to apologize for asserting some very insulting things to and about me. I've accused you of ducking my questions, of Christian hypocrisy, of bearing false witness against me, and of acting in an "unbalanced" manner. You, on the other hand, have accused me of being a pedophile if not actual child rapist whose overriding if not sole purpose here is to do Satan's work of stirring up discord and alienating Christians from their faith and their God.
I think if we were to place our respective criticisms of one another on an impartial scale of severity, yours would vastly outweigh mine. Furthermore, I think I could present a much more compelling case to an impartial jury of the plausibility of my criticisms than you could of yours.
You'd probably disagree, and that's okay. Different people see things in different ways. But I hope you don't think that you have acted in a perfectly good and acceptable manner here and that I've done things for which I should apologize but that you have not.
I don't expect you to apologize for anything, but I believe some apologies from you are in order, just as you believe the same of me. Perhaps we'll end up apologizing to each other at some point.
Teresa, you wrote: "You wrote: "As for the WA case of the abused girl, it sounds to me as though she may have gone through worse and bear worse physical and emotional scars from it than Jaycee and her daughters have and will. Do you even comprehend what such a statement tells people."
I see your point, Teresa. My statement didn't come out the way I wanted it to, and I can see how it gave you the impression that I was making light of the suffering that Jaycee( and her family) have endured. Had I written, "It sounds as though she may have undergone even worse...," I would have gotten my point across a little better, but still not well enough.
So, let me clarify what I was trying to say. I believe that Jaycee and her family have gone through hell on earth over the past eighteen years. But in Dante's "Inferno," there are several levels or "rings" of hell, each lower one worse than those above it, and I had the impression that the horrors to which the little girl in WA was subjected, such as being deprived of liquids until her teeth rotted out, might have been even worse than what Jaycee endured.
But when I think about it, I'm in no position to speculate on who suffered more from their abuse. I wasn't either of them. I wasn't with either of them. I didn't see what they went through. I haven't heard their vivid accounts of what they went through. And I haven't seen them and observed how affected they appear to be by their ordeals. So, although I wasn't belittling Jaycee's ordeal and suffering, I shouldn't have said what I said, and I retract it. The people in both cases surely suffered terribly. Comparisons of degree of suffering are not only superfluous and inappropriate but understandably offensive.
Teresa, there's no hurry with this. Believe it or not, :-) I have other things to do as well. I'll write when I can, and you can do the same.
I am Nagarjuna and goblinbee, and I write lesbian pedophilic fiction.
Nagarjuna,,,,I agree with Teresa and I guess with goblinbee also. I sometimes start to read your comments, but even the comments you made to me, my attn got lost about to the middle. lol No offense. However, I realize that you have to write the way you write.
To Megan: We have open discussion on this topic here, because this is the place that brought our attn to this topic. We all gathered here with a common concern. We wouldnt discuss this if we were in a Nickelodeon channel, I suppose, or a flirt chatroom.
Teresa, I wish there was some way of communicating with you directly. If you so wish, I will publish my email at least, for us to communicate on a personal basis. As you and I have both previously stated, We are only one person. But now, WE ARE 2. HOORAY!
I also have no clue as to where to start with the govt officials. But 4 attys told me it would be impossible for me to adopt my son without the grandmothers permission. Yet I pressed on until I found the right attorney, and spoke with so many different ppl of different offices for support and advice through the entire process. And now he is mine forever.
Teresa,,,, I know this is a copy of my above comment, but I wanted your name to stand out so you would be sure to read this.
Teresa, I wish there was some way of communicating with you directly. If you so wish, I will publish my email at least, for us to communicate on a personal basis. As you and I have both previously stated, We are only one person. But now, WE ARE 2. HOORAY!
I also have no clue as to where to start with the govt officials. But 4 attys told me it would be impossible for me to adopt my son without the grandmothers permission. Yet I pressed on until I found the right attorney, and spoke with so many different ppl of different offices for support and advice through the entire process. And now he is mine forever.
I am not going backwards with this Nagarjuna and not going to attempt to respond to any more books. One topic at a time, short and sweet. I'll respond to one comment, and then ask my question again.
I have not failed to apologize for bearing false witness on you. You still haven't shown me anything other than instigation. My plight is to find out why. Maybe sometime... "perhaps" we'll end up apologizing to each other at some point.
Whether Nilax claims the pedophile statements any longer or not is neither here nor there. It's already out there.
You have yet to respond to one pedophile posting in these blogs. I would like to hear how you would respond to them. What would your comment be to Nilax, and what punishment would be suitable for a pedophile with those actions he/she wrote of? Remember, one item at a time.
I also fantasize about hard punishment inflicted upon me.
Denise, I'll be back tonight, for now I must get busy trying to make an income. Please DO NOT post your email in here. Of all places, you will most certainly bring upon yourself and email "box" full of pedophile mail. I'll respond to discussion in here.
Nilax you need some serious psychiatric help.
i am 12 and wat is this?
Teresa, before I go further in replying to your latest comments, I want to address what you've written how about how I need to "Drop the big words and come down to earth" and quit trying to razzle dazzle everyone with verbal flimflammery designed to intimidate you and make you think I'm smarter than I am and that my comments are more substantive than they are.
The fact of the matter is that what you've been seeing from me is the way I naturally write and speak. It's not an act I've been staging to impress or fool anybody. I don't think I'm smarter than the rest of you, and I haven't been trying to make you think I am. I just have a relatively large vocabulary, and I tend to think in long, convoluted sentences, and I've been lazy about paring things down for public consumption and using simpler words and shorter sentences to get my points across more clearly. But now I'll work harder at it. I hope I succeed.
Teresa, now I want to address your criticism that I haven't shown due regard for people's feelings here. You're right to point out that people have good cause to feel extremely upset by what the Garridos put Jaycee and her family through over the past eighteen years, and that my comments up till now have nevertheless shown far less empathy for Jaycee and her family and for the way people feel about all of this than they have criticism and scorn for the way people have "vented" their feelings here. What's more, most of the empathy or sympathy I have shown has been for the Garridos.
I've already addressed much of this criticism previously, but I'll say a little more about it here.
I detest what the Garridos did to Jaycee and her family. Their crimes were abominable, awful. There are no two ways about it. But I ALSO detest the hateful, awful things people have said here about what should be done to the Garridos for their crimes. And I've focused more on the latter because what the Garridos did is done, but the hateful and sadistic things people have been saying against them here has been an ongoing thing that I had hoped to discourage people from continuing.
And if you want to say that I haven't shown sufficient regard for the Dugards, I think it's fair for me to say in return that I don't think that most of you have either. As a few have boldly pointed out, most of you have been focusing far more on your outrage and hatred for the Garridos and on what exquisite tortures you'd like to put them through than you have on tender empathy for the suffering of the Dugards and on their need to heal.
The other major reason I've felt so upset by what I've seen here and have been so intent on defending the Garridos is because I truly believe that they HAD to do the awful things they did given the pathology that gripped them, and that someone needs to speak up for them in the face of all the hate and vindictiveness we've seen here. Unfortunately, I haven't been doing such a good job of it.
Teresa, you wrote: "Nagarjuna, I do not have time tonight to copy and paste each and every contradiction..."
Then don't bother with EVERY one of them. Just show me ONE "contradiction" in what I've said. I truly don't believe that you'll find any. But if you do, I'd like to see it so that I may learn from it and improve my thinking on the matter.
On the other hand, if you can't produce even a single example, this should tell you that you might be wrong about some of your other criticisms of me as well and that you might be better off not being so quick to judge people in a negative way.
Fair enough?
Teresa, you wrote: "Especially when you use unfounded "claims" that this man was "ill" or "sick""
I grant you that I haven't PROVED these claims. So, if that's what you mean by "unfounded," I agree. But if by "unfounded" you mean that my claims are weak or outright false, then I strongly disagree, and I'm more than willing to discuss this with you in greater later on.
But right now, I want to take a different tack. I want to ask you a question that I've posed before, but nobody answered. I hope you'll answer this time, because I think it really cuts right to the heart of what I've been arguing here.
I know you don't believe that pathology made Garrido do what he did. But SUPPOSE you DID believe it, as I do. Suppose you felt convinced that if Garrido hadn't been sick or defective or both in his mind or brain or both, he could not and would not have committed the terrible crimes he did. IF YOU BELIEVED THAT WITH ALL YOUR MIND AND HEART, WOULD YOU THINK THAT GARRIDO SHOULD BE HATED,TORTURED, OR EVEN SIMPLY PUT TO DEATH FOR COMMITTING THE CRIMES THAT HIS PATHOLOGY MADE HIM COMMIT?
Teresa, you wrote: "I have not failed to apologize for bearing false witness on you. You still haven't shown me anything other than instigation. My plight is to find out why."
I'm sorry to say that I don't understand what you're trying to say with this. If you're trying to say that you haven't apologized for bearing false witness against me because you don't yet have good reason to know that you're guilty of this offense, let me respond to this briefly.
I'm not a pedophile. But I can no more "prove" it to you than you could "prove" to me that you aren't a pedophile, a serial killer, or a cannibal. Yet, if, just because you passionately spoke out against hatred and torture of pedophiles, serial killers, or cannibals, I were to accuse you of being one, I would be going WAY too far, and I would, in my humble opinion, owe you a contrite apology.
Enough said.
Teresa wrote: "What do you think of Nilax's post?"
I think it's possible that s/he is just trying to stir up fecal matter and isn't really a pedophile. But if s/he really went through the trouble of writing this stuff herself/himself instead of borrowing it from some other source, it's hard to believe that that s/he doesn't have pedophillic tendencies.
But, as I've commented before, if you believe that it's okay to "vent" fantasies of raping and torturing Philip Garrido provided you don't carry them out, I'm not sure what grounds you have for saying that it's not okay for Nilax to "vent" her/his desires to abuse young girls so long as s/he hasn't acted on them, and we have no indication that s/he has.
Is it illegal for Nilax to post this stuff. I'm not sure what the law would say about what's been posted. Any lawyers here?
Is it wrong for Nilax to post it? I certainly think so. But then I think it's at least equally wrong to post comments about raping and torturing criminals.
If Nilax has been writing about actual times where s/he has molested children, then I believe that s/he should be quarantined from children unless and until there's extremely good reason to believe that s/he no longer constitutes a threat to children. And if the law were changed to an automatic life sentence for child molestation, then I would go along with everyone convicted of child molestation after that law went into effect receiving a life sentence. Not because I think they "deserve" it as "punishment" for their sickness, but because I think society needs it in order to keep its children safer.
I have already reported Nilax to the FBI, US Marshals, El Dorado County Sheriff, CA Attorney General, and Cybertipline.
Nilax is not as clever as he would like to think.
To shed more light on the legality or illegality (as distinguished from the morality or pathology) of Nilax's comments, here is a key excerpt from something I found online that has me doubting that the comments in question are illegal, since they aren't "visual" depictions:
"What is Child Pornography?
Under federal law (18 U.S.C. §2256), child pornography1 is defined as any visual depiction, including any photograph, film, video, picture, or computer or computer-generated image or picture, whether made or produced by electronic, mechanical, or other means, of sexually explicit conduct, where
* the production of the visual depiction involves the use of a minor engaging in sexually explicit conduct; or
* the visual depiction is a digital image, computer image, or computer-generated image that is, or is indistinguishable from, that of a minor engaging in sexually explicit conduct; or
* the visual depiction has been created, adapted, or modified to appear that an identifiable minor is engaging in sexually explicit conduct.
Federal law (18 U.S.C. §1466A) also criminalizes knowingly producing, distributing, receiving, or possessing with intent to distribute, a visual depiction of any kind, including a drawing, cartoon, sculpture or painting, that
* depicts a minor engaging in sexually explicit conduct and is obscene, or
* depicts an image that is, or appears to be, of a minor engaging in graphic bestiality, sadistic or masochistic abuse, or sexual intercourse, including genital-genital, oral-genital, anal-genital, or oral-anal, whether between persons of the same or opposite sex and such depiction lacks serious literary, artistic, political, or scientific value.
Sexually explicit conduct is defined under federal law (18 U.S.C. §2256) as actual or simulated sexual intercourse (including genital-genital, oral-genital, anal-genital, or oral-anal, whether between persons of the same or opposite sex), bestiality, masturbation, sadistic or masochistic abuse, or lascivious exhibition of the genitals or pubic area of any person."
(From the website of the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children)
Gee, Dr. Webb, these guys sure are fast. I'm seeing a surveillance van circling our block for the past ten minutes.
Nagarjuna and Dr. Webb,
I also called the FBI to report Nilax. And 3 of the persons that answered the phone said that anyone can write a story. However, if I could find an excerpt of Nilax's writings saying that they had, themselves, performed sexual acts on the child, then the FBI would step up and look into it.
So, I forced myself to read through the writings that I had refused to read before. And I did find what the FBI said would be perfect evidence for them to investigate. Whether anything happens now, I do not and probably will never know.
But Nilax is here punking and mocking the FBI, US Marshals, etc.
And apparently nothing so far has happened to this person. And if they cannot stop a person like Nilax, that makes me have even worse feelings about this country that I used to be so proud of.
How can it be legal for Nilax to have such a sick twisted mind to even think these things in their story, let alone write them?
If I stood at the checkout line of Walmart and told stories about children being molested and loving it. I would at least be put in psychiatric evaluation of some sort. Laws are pathetic and ppls rights in this country are pathetic.
Nagarjuna, I hope that you have not interpreted anything I've said as me not liking your writing. I like the way you think and write.
Denise, yes, Nilax writes as though s/he actually committed the crimes in question. But the protagonist in the initial vignettes is female. If the author of these vignettes is male, I doubt that any law is being violated, since the author could not have committed the crimes he literally described. And if the author is male, he couldn't have been the abused girl in the latest vignette.
Should this kind of writing be prohibited by law, even though it's not "visual" in nature? You make a good point that you'd probably be violating some law if you spun fantasies aloud in WalMart about abusing children. If THAT would be illegal, why would it NOT be illegal to do the same in cyberspace that doesn't exclude children from its content?
But if we followed that line of argument, couldn't we end up prohibiting from any public availability not only written stories about abusing children but also about engaging in any kinds of activities that children could access and be harmed by? I'm not sure how far we should go down that road.
Furthermore, if you DO argue that it should be illegal to write about abusing children even if you're not writing about something you actually did, why should it not ALSO be illegal to "vent" the kinds of sadistic fantasies we've seen here involving the Garridos?
Goblinbee, no, I didn't interpret you that way. I admit that I was a little puzzled by one of your comments, given the predictable way that it was understood by at least one person here. :-) But I guess we're pretty much over that hurdle now. Or are we? :-)
Nagarjuna, yes, I was having a little fun back there. But as it seems to have distressed you to implicate you, I do apologize.
Goblinbee, I wasn't "distressed." No apologies are necessary.
I guess it's just a natural tendency that some who disagree with me have to assume that anyone who agrees with me must BE me. :-)
Nagarjuna, the FBI said to me that if I said I am going to kill someone on Friday. Yes, I would be arrested for the threat.
But here, this person has stated that they have indeed already performed these acts.
And I do not agree with these ppl coming here to say their sick comments. For one thing, it makes these ppl seem very uneducated and trash like.
Also, I still believe that if Jaycee and her daughters read these words, they would be the ones hurt by them more than the Garridos would be.
Denise, I report him to the FBI too, but I did it online. I also reported him to Google, who has more information to give to the FBI so they can find him more expeditiously. Nilax and a few others in this blog. Thanks Dr. Webb. Denise, after the first two or thee lines, I could't read anymore either. But after a couple hours, I thought you know, they just keep going, and if we don't read through and report them, then we fail the next person who gets raped by them.
Nagarjuna: I didn't read all your posts. It is apparent that we will not have conversation. But we will have bantering back and forth.
My purpose in asking my question was simple. Pedophiles cannot see the wrong in what a pedophile does. You don't see it, nor can you truly empathize with a victim. I am not going to tell you how through your word appears, that would be like training a pedophile to hide better. I did read the part where you compared Nilax to the outraged people who wrote and lashed out at these disgusting pig pedophiles, whom you do not seem to think did anything to serious. Simply pathetic the way you turn things around to suit your arguments.
You wanted me to apologize. I wanted to be able to apologize, but I won't apologize for you when you continually display these traits with these 10 page comments which do nothing by brow beat. I am not going to get sucked into your little web anymore. What you wrote the other day about knowing you have a problem and you must learn to communicate better was nothing but a ploy, reel them in, and then start all over. This is another trait of a pedophile. You are so hell bent on forcing your opinions on everyone, but you don't know how to communicate, or converse with anyone, because like a pedophile, you are so selfish that you simply cannot see the problems a pedophile causes. I truly hope psychiatrists come and read this.
You can keep wasting your time writing in your various names, but I won't read them.
Teresa, I am not a pedophile. I am not defending pedophilia. I have not been posting under alternate names. I am not "playing games." I have responded substantively and respectfully to your comments and then you accuse me of "browbeating." YOUR conduct here is reprehensible, not mine.
Despite my now overwhelming impression that you are incapable of intelligent discussion of ANYTHING, I am still willing to hang in there with you and try. And if I need to see a psychiatrist, THAT'S probably the only reason. Any fully sane person would have given up and walked away from your insults and you a long time ago.
Nagarjuna wrote: "I guess it's just a natural tendency that some who disagree with me have to assume that anyone who agrees with me must BE me."
So funny! Although, I don't think we've always been agreeing, so much as discussing.
Anyway, the Washington case proceeds. The stepmother entered a modified guilty plea today. But she is claiming that her husband abused her. I know anything is possible, but it seems like quite a stretch to think of him wielding any power over her while at the same time being so passive about what she was doing to his daughter. It doesn't add up.
Teresa wrote: "Pedophiles cannot see the wrong in what a pedophile does. You don't see it, nor can you truly empathize with a victim."
I agree that pedophiles who act out their desires probably do so partly because they don't comprehend the way the rest of us do the extremely harmful effect of child abuse. Lacking that comprehension, they lack a key component that would restrain them from acting out their desires.
I also agree that I can't "truly empathize with a victim" of child abuse because, thank God, I have never been one. That is, neither I nor anyone else can fully know what it's like to suffer such victimization unless and until we ourselves are victimized. But, even so, I understand on a gut emotional level as well as an intellectual one, that child abuse can be devastating. And nothing I have said here has been meant to suggest otherwise.
He serves satan...an evil-doer! I believe "the Bible" refers to his kind as "an antichrist" and states "there are many."
Funny how those so wrapped up in Godly Prophecy have a tendency to bypass MOST scripture within the WRITTEN Word of God, and rely on their self-proclaimed revelations as they twist some of God's Word.
I wonder if his "mind control" can stop him from being "Bubba's Boy Toy?"
So, are we all in agreement on the "One strike, You're out" law, or what? lol I have a few influential and quite intelligent friends. But unfortunately, they are defense attorneys and social workers that try to help criminals.
I do have one very good friend that owns the local newspaper. I am going to speak with him on Tuesday.
I know people will think I am stupid and crazy for believing I can make a difference. But if I fail, at least I actually tried.
And I happen to know that Polititcs is all about votes so you need to get as many people on your side as possible, and get some positive press. If the papers are on your side the government is more likely to cave in under the pressure in the interest of public relations.
Denise: Don't be upset about your friends working for the defense of criminals. Every criminal deserves and attorney... and deserves to spend every last cent they have on them.
I worked in criminal law for a very short period of time. They love taking their money. It wasn't worth it for me to be near the criminals, so I went to litigation... I still was around criminals!
I have to say again... even voting doesn't help so much for situations like this. It is the lawmakers who decide what you will be voting for, not the voters.
The publics word counts when they are seen in numbers... by the media who love to share things like sit ins, etc. The only way to get the government to hear you is to get the word spread out. You can't do that without multitudes of people and the media in a frenzie racing their competition to get it over the airways, on their blogs, on their websites.
Denise: This article will kind of give you an idea of how hard it is to petition the lawmakers.
http://ballotpedia.org/wiki/index.php/Massachusetts_lawmakers_consider_amending_petition_policies
Now that is just law makers in Massachusetts, but you can guess is somewhere around the norm for each state. As I said, I don't know that many people... don't blog to much to know about having my own, but, if your newspapers friend has any ideas how to make something like that work, I would be willing to help out.
Why cant I ever copy a link here and find it? Another person here posted a link to some picture. Tsun Tsu2 seen the picture, but I couldnt find it. I also cannot find your site that you posted here, Teresa.
I also will go to my Congresswomans office on Tuesday, by the way. I bother the woman that works there all of the time, lol. And she has helped me immensely in so many ways. She can give me some advice or literature or maybe point me in at least some direction.
Nilax, are you still here? Just curious.
It is a July 2009 article - copied and pasted:
BOSTON, Massachusetts: In an effort to discourage interest groups with deep pockets from influencing Massachusetts voters, Rep. James Fagan proposed two bills to amend the current petition policies. Right now, petitioners must collect 66,593 signatures (the article mistakenly says more than 100,000 signatures) for the legislature to consider a citizen petition. If the legislature chooses not to address the petition, citizens must collect an additional 11,099 signatures (the article mistakenly says 20,000 signatures) to put the measure on the ballot. However, the proposed bill calls for preventing outside firms from being hired to collect signatures. The second bill requires gatherers to wear buttons declaring their name, affiliation and the amount that they are being paid. The buttons must be worn when collecting signatures. Although most lawmakers said that they understood what the bills were trying to accomplish, some said that they simply could not support them. "It's hard enough to get something on the ballot, but trying to further encumber the process by adding restrictions is something I think should probably be studied, but not something I would likely support," said Rep. Thomas Golden. Secretary of State William Galvin said that, if the bills pass, he foresees the bills being challenged in court. Golden added, "This is not a spectator sport that someone should be sitting by and idly watching. If you're so enraged by what they're doing, push the opposite cause."
According to state officials the bill resulted after lawmaker's noticed a massive influx of outside money in support the decriminalization of small amounts of marijuana last year. Thirty-percent of the funds for the measure came from Washington, D.C. and sixty-percent came from New York.[1]
What my point is, is that it is a lot of damn work to get that many signatures when you don't know that many people.... even going door to door. I think it would me much easier if people can be addressed over ads on the internet.... asking everyone to meet up in one place in their cities, to show support and help get our laws changed. Asking for volunteers of each city to print the petitions and get the signatures as people arrive.... It is the multitudes of people that peek the interest of the media... and the media certainly helps when our government puts such tight strings on everything, making it so difficult to be heard, and then still being able to knock your requests down even after you obtained all those signatures.
The article was just to show you how ridiculous it really truly is that our voices mean anything at all to our law makers. It is obviously not worth doing.
Denise, yes I agree that the law should be changed so that those who commit crimes that victimize other human beings sexually, they should be quarantined from society for the rest of their lives barring extraordinary indications of rehabilitation. And if the sexual crimes are as serious as those in Garrido's case, there should be no possibility of release. Even after his first conviction many years ago, he should have been incarcerated for life, and it strains credulity that he was released as soon as he was.
Goblinbeed, yes, I'm sure you haven't agreed with me on everything or maybe even much of anything. But at least you seem to be willing to listen to my unconventional views and not to jump to the conclusion that there must be something seriously amiss with someone who dares to argue, since no one else appears inclined to, that even the Garridos of the world are human beings--pathological human beings--who should be treated AS human beings even if their crimes must be condemned and their chances removed of ever committing further such crimes.
I'd like to ask you a question I've asked previously but which no one seems willing to answer. Setting aside the question of whether you think, as I do, that sickness, defect, or both caused Garrido to do what he did, IF YOU THROUGHLY BELIEVED THAT THIS WAS THE CASE, HOW DO YOU THINK SOCIETY SHOULD REGARD AND TREAT SUCH A PERSON?
Nagarjuna, I can easily see your kindness and gentleness.
Also your willingness to fail, which I admire.
And the beauty of each of your attempts, which I also admire.
I am sorry about the ugliness directed at you; none of it has seemed remotely warranted.
Your question is a very interesting one for me. I don't have much trouble with how I think the person should be treated, it is how they should be regarded that I can't get my head around.
As to their treatment, I think we feel similarly that they should be removed from other people so that they can not do more harm. As I've said or implied before, I'm much more comfortable with this removal being lifelong imprisonment than execution--I can feel ill at the thought of saying yes to killing someone--except that I'm afraid I WOULD want someone killed if they had harmed my child. Knowing I might feel this way, I can feel compassion for the families and want closure for their sake. So I feel very conflicted about that.
As far as how they should be regarded, I'm not anywhere near a place of compassion. I might feel badly that terrible things were probably inflicted on them too, but their own actions horrify me so much as to mostly blot out that compassion. I feel like I would LIKE to feel more compassion than I do, but I feel so far from that. I keep wondering if that would change if I had known the person and liked them. In a way, it seems like I would only be more horrified for having known them; I would feel implicated somehow--tainted, responsible...something.
Still here, denise, and so is the surveillance van.
Hey, everybody go to hankram.blogspot.com and see the 23 ways to have Garrido executed.
Teresa, I happen to be the Marketing Rep for a large corporation. I very often go door to door. lol Although I cannot have ppl sign petitions during my working hours, I can speak to them about anything. Then I can come back after hours to have them sign if they agree. All of this sounds like the perfect plan for me. lol
Nagarjuna, I am not only speaking about stricter punishments for child abuers, but for murderers and other criminals also. As far as Garrido having a mental illness, so we should take special considerations for his punishment, I feel that a rabid dog is dangerous due to his illness, but will always be a danger to society. I have some family members that are "mentally sick". My cousin used to beat up Jesus. And my Aunt was pregnant by God for 3 years. They both have stopped those particular stories, and drugs alike. But they are far from sane now, and never will be. They continue to be criminally minded and a danger to society. And they mingle in society every day. Heinous crimes waiting to happen.
Goblinbee, I am torn when I think about "What if it was my brother or my son that had committed these crimes?" Would I want the death penalty or a life sentence for them? The answer is No. But I think if my brother or one of my sons committed a crime like this, I would feel differently about them, and am not sure if I would try to defend or protect them.
And it doesnt matter to me whose family member such a crime happens to. I would feel the same as if it were my own child. I would want the monster put to death. For future safety, financial and just reasons. But as I said, I am not so sure how I would feel if the monster happened to be someone I love.
Nilax, keep us posted please. Thank you.
Phillip Garrido will almost certainly be put in San Quentin State Prison, in segregation, awaiting the Death Penalty.
I've never understood people who commit crime so badly that they get caught and go to prison for life. Fucking pathetic.
There are so many more sick ppl like Garrido going to be released from prison in the future. We must make a stand. Gather your entire neighborhoods and flood your govt officials with calls demanding stricter laws. Demand rights for the victims more than the offender. I am sick of criminals rights. After you have committed a heinous crime, you lose your rights as a citizen of this country or even a human being. We kill dogs and alligators for harming humans. Yet, we allow thinking human beings second and third chances to harm us. Some criminals can become productive after they have been released from jail for their heinous crimes. But why should they even be allowed to?
The truth of the matter is, unless they can find the dirt on him re: all the murders they believe he is responsible for, he will not get the death penalty. What is even more pathetic is that he will have medical care, and all other costs of living paid by ALL HIS VICTIMS. Ironic, he kidnaps, tortures and keeps his victims from medical care, but the law will force ALL HIS VICTIMS to pay for his upkeep.
denise, you, uhm, want more of my stories?
Nilax,
What is wrong with you? Seriously.
Denise, you and I agree that people who commit serious crimes need to be placed where they can't do it again, and that this probably means placing them there for the rest of their lives. And I, personally, believe that this should apply not only to those who commit so-called "crimes of violence," but also to those, such as Bernie Madoff, who commit "white collar" crimes of devastating impact on people's lives.
Indeed, if capital punishment remains in effect, I believe that no one is more eligible for it than Bernie Madoff whose crimes probably caused more hardship to more people than just about anyone's, and whose guilt appears to be beyond question.
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