During the month of July 2009 JM's Enterprises, 1215 Willow Pass Road * Pittsburg CA,(925) 439-8118 was the host to a powerful demonstration, the Creator has given me the ability to speak in the tongue of angels in order to provide a wake-up call that will in time include the salvation of the entire world.
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Samantha, I have to borrow Nagarjunas ways for a moment. WHY do you think they would CHOOSE to take their money to buy drugs instead of buying food for their children?
Do you think that they hate their children? Do you think they feel more important than their children? Do you think they feel they need drugs more than their children need food? Do you think that while giving birth, they take their babies home with the intent to neglect them?
Nobody wants to be without their television set, or sell their car and have to walk after that, so they can do drugs. Yet, it happens all of the time.
You are a police officer, and I do not know if you have access to being inside of an actual pod with the incarcerated parents. I have had access to being inside a pod with other parents. And they ALL cant wait to get out and do right by their babies, and straighten their lives up, finally. And as you stated, some make it, most will not. Saying that you cant wait to be a good mommy will never help get you released from jail. They say it because it is a true and honest desire in their hearts.
I wish you could know what it feels like to invite a guest into your home, that brings a bag of dope, but has no milk for your child with them. It is a horrible memory for me. The persons that came to my house always had drugs. But none of them had a spare gallon of milk with them. I do want to say that my daughter always, always has been provided for in one way or the other. She has always had food, and many toys. We have had our problems, but I always pulled us out of them. She has gone through hell in her childhood, but with much protection. I always tried to make sure she came first before anything else. But I have to admit that it didnt always happen that way. Such as, she and I have spent a night outside sleeping next to a church before, due to me being irresponsible from drug usage. And every moment of raising my beautiful princess, I struggled to BREAK AWAY from the evil hold that drugs had on me and my life. I hated every moment of using drugs.
I have applied at several places to get out of law. To do something somewhere in smaller communities where the crime and violence is not thrown in your face every day. I saw a man hold a knife to a judges throat about a year ago, and every time I walk into a Courthouse I remember this. If you ever want to witness how horrible life can really get, go sit in your local courtrooms.
Samantha said:"I also see the options given to them when they are sober and in jail."
I think you can look at this in the same manner of looking at an obese person. Of course there are options. Give up delicious chocolate cake. Do strenuous exercise. Spend much time and money for things like Weight Watchers, or the gym.
After something overwhelmingly takes your life over in a harmful way, it seems too hopeless to try the options for help. Much easier to sit on the sofa and watch a workout video, wishing you would get up and planning on same day actually doing it, than it is too actually get up and do the aerobics.
I agree with most of that the TheBoogieManHater. Some cops do go bad, but not as many as people seem to think. It is true more than you can imagine what is seen on the streets is life changing for any cop. But the reality is, if one cop goes bad, the public believes all of us are bad. It goes in phases. When you are on the streets, we are always told ahead of time when another cop was put on leave for any infraction. On those days we are verbally attacked. All of us. Justice on cops should be quicker to get to the truth to keep the public informed. Not all cops were involved.
SIWL
Denise, let me try to explain myself more clearly to you and everyone else.
I believe that people rape, molest, and commit other crimes because something causes them to do it that they did not cause. Furthermore, I believe that this cause consists of a complex combination of factors and conditions. Those factors include an abnormal desire to commit these crimes and an involuntary lack of psychological qualities that would prevent most of us from acting out these desires even if we were unfortunate enough to have them.
For instance, in the case of Philip Garrido, I believe that he had an abnormally strong and warped sexual interest in young females coupled with a lack of conscience and empathy. So, because he had these desires and he didn't have enough of a conscience and sense of empathy to stop him from acting them out, he did what he did, and now we're talking about it here.
Thus, when I ask you to imagine yourself cursed with desires to commit sexual offenses or other serious crimes and to then tell me what would stop you from acting them out, I'm trying to get you to understand the point I made above. And if you're unable to imagine yourself harboring any of these ugly desires, I ask you to remember times when you've desired to do something illegal or immoral and to tell me what stopped you from carrying out that desire.
Again, my intent is to try to get you to see that something in your mind or heart stopped you from doing what you desired to do and to understand that if you didn't have that something, you would have committed the illegal or immoral act. And if you understand this, perhaps you can understand better why people like Garrido do the terrible things they do.
Through no ultimate fault of their own, they feel abnormal desires and are abnormally lacking in the capacity to inhibit themselves from acting out these desires. They're not "sick" in the sense of being so "crazy" in their thinking that they can't premeditate and, in some cases, meticulously plan their crimes, or so "crazy" in their behavior that they're out, as I expressed it previously, screaming in the middle of the street and pulling out their hair. But they have desires I think most if not all of us would consider "sick," and they are psychologically disabled from being able to resist those desires.
And to blame them for having the desires they do is like blaming a man with H1N1 for having a fever, and blaming someone for not being able to resist the desires they have is like blaming a person for being blind. Just as you can't see if you don't have functioning eyes, you can't stop yourself from committing crimes if you don't have a functioning conscience, sense of empathy, or adequate sense of the dangers that you face if you carry out your desires.
My father owned a 40 acre ranch in Angels Camp when I was a kid and I lived with him for 2 years. I also knew Ellie Nesler if you have never heard about her I wen to school with her son who was molested by a local priest of ours when his court date arrived ellie walked into the Jamestown court room and after seeing her sons molester smirk in court, and her son peeing uncontrollably prior to him having to testify he was so scared he could not hold his own bodily urine!!!!!!!! he continually was peeing himself shaking, and was terrified. She went to her car and grabbed a gun and she walked in the court room and she shot her sons molester in the head and killed him in front of the judge jury and everyone in the court room.
here is a link to the story:
http://www.latimes.com/news/obituaries/la-me-nesler30-2008dec30,0,945169.story
Anyways this story has always been of interest to me as I knew her son and his mother Ellie and a lot of the family. Now her son is in jail for murder as an adult. would this have happened if he was not raped repeatedly for years as a child??? This story to me shows how a pedophile can ruin someones life forever.... and a entire families. As we all know.
I am sorry BrendaStar, but I have read how those what ifs and whys went in here. This has not resolved anything. For me the truth is, as I have said, I know their addiction. I know their plight. I do know in my job, it does not matter at the moment they are stabbing, shooting, robbing to get more drugs or driving and killing. What matters is stopping them. These people have to make their own decision to battle the addiction.
SIWL
Brenda, can I say that I was never trying to escape anything emotional when I started using drugs. I started out taking Crosstops and Black beauties with my mother and aunt to lose weight. At the same time, these pills gave us energy. My father said if I really want to lose weight and have energy try this, and he lined up some meth.
Using drugs actually gave me many emotional problems. I had to kick the drugs in order to escape all of the emotional torment that I was going through.
Samantha,
I agree in the sense that they need to be held accountable which is a part of their recovery. I do not disagree with your position as a police officer.
TheBoogieManHater, there are also a lot of officers who have quit being police officers who have taken much lower paying jobs as courthouse security officers.
I actually know three. The Courts are much more protected than they used to be and by experienced individuals.
Samantha,
I think if you classify one person as bad that it would never mean everyone is bad... Cops do get a bad rap that way sometimes... Then logic should step in... You can not ever blame an entire group of individuals for one persons actions.
Does anyone know why this G20 meeting is serious????
SIWL
Samantha, I say that you should despise each and every drug abuser that you have to arrest. Despise their actions, and hope that some day their lives can change. Drug addicts are of the most despicable monsters that walk the Earth. They have no concience, they are evil, and neglectful.
What I am saying is only that most drug abusers do not have a choice to use or not use.
When I was in the 9th grade I actually CHOSE to smoke marijuana. I hated it and did not continue using, but I did have a choice to use or not, from the beginning. The meth grabbed a hold of me with a madness. I had planned from the beginning to stop by the time I was 18 and ready to start my adult life with college and a career, family, home, etc. I believe that I might have, if my father didnt get shot.
The g20 conference that lasted 2 days is the end of the dollar that is what they are disussing its the end of our monatary system as we know it. That is why the people are protesting.. and these anarchist that you hear about is not true there were only a cpl isolated events of this almost every protester their was peaceful. If the News isnt going to really talk about it I am.
once again typing to fast sorry about typos.
denise,
Well in that comment id ask why you felt the need in the first place to take diet pills??? who told you you need to lose weight? it seems your dad was helpful with your drug use and you don't think that you harbored any emotional baggage from this that might have propelled you into this addiction further? hmmm you'd be the first addict ive ever came across like this..
Samantha. Not sure how we got confused, the posts moving quite fast this morning. But I was agreeing with you 100%. I do know a few retired police officers who are now courthouse security officers. Most of our courtrooms separate out civil from criminal cases. But there are not enough courtrooms so we sit in courtrooms waiting for our cases to be called sometimes with criminals. These are the courtrooms these experienced security are in. The criminal courtrooms are now done from jail through audio/video, with a lighter security, but because of reaction of family or other public at these hearings.
"Samantha, I say that you should despise each and every drug abuser that you have to arrest."
SIWL
My Dear Denise, I would respectfully rephrase your statement to something like this:
"Samantha, I say that you should abhor the terrible harm and destruction that drug abuse causes to individuals, their families, and to society as a whole, but you should try never to despise the people who have fallen into the trap of drug abuse or addiction. Even when you have to arrest them, do it with as much empathy and compassion as you can muster. DIWL."
YouAreSuchAFreak. I still cannot get through your phone.
SIWL
Nagarjuna, I have told you this entire time that I agree with what you say, completely. I have made comparisons several times to prove how I understand. Such as rabid dogs, etc. But....
Nag:" you can't stop yourself from committing crimes if you don't have a functioning conscience, sense of empathy, or adequate sense of the dangers that you face if you carry out your desires."
Do you not believe that these persons should be stopped forever, due to their lack of self control and conscience and empathy?
And you have already stated that Yes, you do believe they should be stopped. And in agreement with many here, either by lifetime incarceration or in some cases, by execution.
I do not know why you and I disagree so much. I do understand what you say. Sometimes you say things that I strictly do not agree with. And I do you the same way. But maybe that is what "being friends" is all about. And I agree with what you said to Samantha about everyone in here disagreeing at times. We do get crazy in here sometimes, but I think it is because we all feel so passionately about this topic. And I am happy that we can all get back on a civil level of conversation again. We are like any family. Through thick and thin. lol
I am curious about what happened with the missing last piece of cake, by the way. lol
Tara,
What do you think about G20 I know that you are aware of this.
sorry Boogie. Missed your messages. Is moving fast today. Meet us at the SB's by WildOats. Need to eat something too, and it is a nice day to have our coffee outside also. Mike is on the phone and has found someone to help us with the boat, you don't need to worry about that. We are leaving in about 10 minutes.
Brenda, I actually thought up to this very day, until reading your comment that all teenaged girls were concerned with their weight.
And I am positive that I did not use drugs to escape anything emotional. I used them strictly at first, to lose weight and have energy. My father was a drug dealer, so I had ample access to as much as I wanted. I will say that I got greedy. And I can say that I had many problems emotionally, but nothing that I tried to escape from by using drugs. I used other forms of escaping, such as running away from home, being a tomboy, I guess. Smoking cigarrettes. All to try to be an individual. But the drugs, I am positive, were not a means of escape for me.
Ah, Denise.
I put this note in the refrigerator where the cake used to be: "Do you need to ask WHY I ate that last piece of cake. I did it, and now I am fat."
Mike totally missed it and placed a bottle of cranberry juice on top of it. (He broke his leg in 3 places last weekend and is stuck in a wheelchair - I guess he couldn't see it)
I will save it for the next time.
Brenda, I didnt want you to misunderstand me. I am not discrediting what you say that drug addicts use drugs to escape reality. Many do. I am saying, that in my case, it was not the case. So not all do initially use drugs to escape.
SIWL
Nagarjuna, I did write what I really meant to say I think on the second and third sentences, about hating the neglect that an addict does, and the crime they commit. She can also hate the criminal if she so wishes. But I think she misunderstands the lack of being able to choose an addiction to drugs.
lol Freak, next time? So you are evilly plotting to commit this offense again in the future? lol Poor Mike.
Brenda!! I do remember Ellie Nessler. It happened at around the same time my mother shot my father. I was so angry that Ms. Ellie had to serve time in prison. So ridiculous!! And do you know how she is now? I thought they were considering releasing her as she was stricken with cancer.
And her son did what?? I never heard about it. Do you have a link? I will google now to try to find what happened. How horrible.
okay, here is an example. Unfortunately some of my neighbors know I am a police officer. I am not on duty, my dog has been upset all morning and I just found out why. There are some teenage neighbors outside catching "kangaroo rats/mice or big mice". I guess they have stirred them up and they are scampering everywhere. Not sure if my dog is more upset about that than the kids running around so close to the yard.
The neighbors come over screaming and yelling that the rats/mice are protected by law. A rare species that is close to becoming extinct.
So, how am I suppose to respond to this. I don't want any rat/mouse at my home as a human being, I am a cop, but I am off duty. Am I allowed to have a choice here or do I turn into robo cop and go chase down the neighbor kids?
I have no clue what the G20 is. Today is the first time I have ever heard of it. I googled, and read, and still do not fully understand what is going on.
my decision was finally to say, you know, I just woke up, I am sorry but I have to get ready for work. Please call a police officer who is on duty.
The response, I was chastised by this neighbor woman. A door to door gossiping neighbor woman. You just can't please everyone.
Samantha,
You uphold your property and protect yourself and your property and your dog. You do have a choice. I wouldn't run the kids down but go talk to their parents if you need to. But you have every right to make any decision like that in regards to your own property and animals being on your property. I live in Tahoe and we have all kinds of critters up here....some i really dont want in my yard they eat all my flowers :( So i set traps humane ones and i catch them and let them go down by the river and barons lake down the street.
"Do you not believe that these persons should be stopped forever, due to their lack of self control and conscience and empathy?"
SIWL
Yes, Denise, as I have said many times.
"And you have already stated that Yes, you do believe they should be stopped. And in agreement with many here, either by lifetime incarceration or in some cases, by execution."
Yes, Denise.
I do not know why you and I disagree so much.
Neither do I. :-) I think the primary point of our disagreement is that I believe in taking a different ATTITUDE toward criminals than you and many others seem to. I believe that if people can't help doing the wrongdoing that they do because of their malfunctioning brains and/or minds, they should also be seen as victims of their crimes and treated with as much empathy and compassion as possible even if they have to be incarcerated or even executed.
"I do understand what you say. Sometimes you say things that I strictly do not agree with. And I do you the same way. But maybe that is what "being friends" is all about. And I agree with what you said to Samantha about everyone in here disagreeing at times. We do get crazy in here sometimes, but I think it is because we all feel so passionately about this topic. And I am happy that we can all get back on a civil level of conversation again. We are like any family. Through thick and thin. lol"
With some of us, that seems to be true. We ARE kind of a family, an online family, sticking together "through thick and thin."
denise,
Sadly Ellie has passed away from cancer, and sadly as well her son is in jail for murder and after his mom was incarcerated he went through years of horrible traumatic symptoms from what he had suffered, he rebelled against society and became a criminal. I ask would he have become a criminal if he didnt get repeatedly molested as a child??? Probably not. It is a very sad story. I posted a link on the first comment does it work?
I would say that if you are off duty, then you could do what any neighbor would do in such case, maybe call the correct office.
You can also send those teenagers over here to catch the mouse that my son seen in the kitchen. I am sure there is an abundance of them. Probably in my house even. No worry of extinction in these little critters.
But as an officer, I guess you could be in trouble to go out and do what some neighbors would do, and yell at the kids, or try to make them stop. I am not an officer, but there were kids on my street that were playing very disrespectfully with a kitten. I went out there and took the cat from them. Told them to go tell their mamas. One parent did send an older child to retrieve the kitten. I told her to send her mother here to speak with me. She never did appear, so the cat is now being spoiled at my brothers house.
If in fact the Kangaroo rat/mouse is a protected species and kids were harming them, that is an infraction of the law. So when the woman's complaint was this, it is the law she needed to call, just not me when I am off duty.
I have bigger fish to fry than chase kids down when I am off duty. The neighbor woman can just go take a chill pill. I should find out what she does for a living and go take her some of her work!!!!
Samantha,
Oh i see what your saying.. Yeah she should call someone ON duty.. your off duty.. I think your right.
SIWL
Brenda, I'll probably catch flak for saying this, but I can't help but wonder if things would have turned out as badly as they did for Ellie and her son if there hadn't been so much hatred involved. It is a very tragic story of abuse, murder, and destruction. But the hatred that society heaps upon abusers and the hatred those who are abused or close to those who are abused heap upon the abuser and on themselves may very well make a tragic situation even more so. It certainly seems to have done so in this very, very unfortunate case.
Although if I witnessed someone hurting an animal as I think about it id tell them to stop thats mean.
I am so sad to hear about Ms. Nessler. My eyes started to sting, and I actually cried. I think this is something that should be presented to law making officials while pressing for stricter laws.
And I also do not believe he would have grown up to become a murderer. His mother was just that. A mother. I actually remembered it to be a person from the Boy Scouts that had molested him. But I do think now that it was a priest that took him camping and to amusement parks or something. So she was trying to provide positive influence in her sons life. And she was such a caring mother, that she did what so many other mothers wish they could do but probably wouldnt follow through with, if this had happened to their babies.
denise,
This is a meeting between ALL the WORLDS top financial people and bankers.... I out in caps so everyone can understand the WORLD!!!!! not just America... The whole world... They are introducing the Amero Currency. As well as world Unionization and several other things.. the economist on all these stupid ass News channels CNN, FOX< MSNBC, everybody all of them they are traitors. I want every American to know that if you do not agree with this you will be called UNPATRIOTIC!!!!!!! But you are in deed a PATRIOT!! We are the real partriots that know what is going on. This is all about New world order and the unionization of governments and changing the world currency to the Amero. America as we know is coming to an end and that fact that most individuals have NO idea what is happening is frieghtening, but they are waking up... there is a lot to this and id be very happy to integrate ideas and thoughts about this topic.. You all want to change the world and make the laws better foe everyone then you have to know what is really going on in order to effect REAL change. They are openly announcing a WORLD government on TV today with The world bank being in control NOT only are we controlled by the Federal Reserve we are being controlled now by a WORLD Banking system... that will control every aspect of how we travel our currency everywhere and our lives. The RFID chipping is a part of all of this.. and this is REAL!!!!!
SIWL
Samantha and Boogie, since you have both identified yourselves as peace officers, I have a question for you entirely unrelated to the main discussion here but not, perhaps, to your profession.
I was watching a newscast the other night about how roofers in Florida removed the roof from the wrong house and then refused to replace it unless and until the homeowner paid them to do it. The home has sat for two months without a roof because the homeowner is trying to get this company to replace the roof that they should never have torn off in the first place, and they continue to refuse to do it.
What would you do, as a peace officer, if you were called to this home right after the incident happened, and what is your understanding of how the law would handle this situation in your locale? I think it's ridiculous that the law isn't very clear that the roofer should immediately replace the roof, and I can't understand how, if the law IS clear on this, it wasn't immediately enforced.
Nagarjuna, I agree with you to a point. Yes, I believe that if Nellie had not killed her son's abuser, she would not have had to go through a trial, end up being WRONGLY convicted, and she would not have had to spend time away from her son, and in prison.
Her son would have healed much easier and better, had she not been away from him, and had they not had to go through the hell they went through, after she did what she did.
But, at the same time, she should NOT have had to go to prison. She not have had to go through the hell she went through, nor should her son have had to. Especially when so much of the public was fighting for her, and on her side. I remember how outraged everyone was when she was sentenced. They used her as an example, when it was not necessary. Most parents, in reality, could not actually pull the trigger on another, even if it is lawful, and they wanted revenge, anhyhow.
I actually believe the kids were trying to catch them, not hurt them. Poor kids are running scared of this woman now, but I saw dad come out. I am kind of laughing at what their mom is thinking if they managed to catch some and bring them home.
A video detailing the roofing story above can be found here: http://video.aol.ca/video-detail/wrong-roof-removed/1273973607/?icid=VIDLRVNWS01
Nag. I am a police officer. TheBoogieManHater is and officer of the Court.
Some cops would handle this differently. Each would understand the fact or believe witnesses differently. You can only go on what you believe. If it was seen as intentional, hell yes they would be arrested. If not, it is a civil matter.
SIWL
Thank you, Samantha. I guess I'm wondering how the law works in a case like this. I don't believe that the roofing company knew it was tearing the roof off the wrong house. So, if I interpret you correctly, the act was not "intentional" in a criminal sense. Yet, still, this poor man is without a roof through no fault of his own, and it seems to me that the law should be able to enforce an immediate replacement of the roof free of charge without this case having to work its way at a snail's pace through civil court.
I think that the roofers are responsible to put the roof back. And also, I believe that any damage that occurs during the period before the roof is replaced should be the responsibility of the roofers also. But, also, I believe I would want to be in court asking for the roofers to actually pay for me to hire a different roofing company. I would not trust said roofers to be the ones to replace my roof correctly.
that is why we have lawsuits. it is a civil matter, not a purposeful violation of the law. I suspect the insurance company of the construction workers will cover error and omissions of the builder. And like most builders, the builder will get his insurance raised so he/she can't afford it, go bankrupt and open up another construction company to start over.
The family may be suffering now, but in the end they will like get a new home twice as nice as what they had.
Just my opinion, I think an honest construction company would put a new roof on this persons home. If they are worth a grain of salt in the business, they have the money to take care of this rather than making their insurance company take care of it. Bad Business move, and selfish and greedy to say the least.
Well, I am taking leave.... back to work I go. Goodbye everyone.
Bye Samantha have a good day... Be safe :)
SIWL
Have a safe and uneventful day at work today, Samantha. God bless.
I think I need to try to get my son to take a nap also. He wants to play Club Penguin for awhile, so I need to do some chores for awhile, while he is hogging the computer. I wish everyone a great day. Take care.
TheBoogieManHater,
Hello I stepped away from here for a cpl days... tried to escape and then got caught up again in this g20 thing and another yet documentary... ugh.. it never ends :) I hope you have a had a great cpl days. Missed chatting with ya. When you get back to your research let me know what you think and we can talk about it if youd like to. I feel i this more important then ever right now its actually imperative for people to get aware.
i don't think i have ever made these many typos in my entire life!!!!!!! ha-ha :) my mind is running rampid today...
I am sorry if my mind is a little off today i am totally consumed with what is happening in Pittsburgh right now... I mean completely consumed..... I am listening to a radio show that is giving me play by play of the protest right now and it is crazy. I can not believe what an injustice our media is doing to us right now!!!!! I am in shock im sorry.
"But, at the same time, she should NOT have had to go to prison."
SIWL
Denise, I don't know what should have been done with Ellie Nessler, but I DO believe that it is simply UNACCEPTABLE under ANY circumstances for someone to bring a concealed handgun into a court of law and use it to execute someone for ANY reason, and that the law must make this very clear to everyone.
I can't honestly say that I wouldn't have wanted to do what Nessler did were I in her shoes, or that I wouldn't have actually done it. But as you've said of yourself, if I were to do it, I should not be allowed to get away with it, and a message should be sent loudly and clearly to the public that a civilized society will not tolerate such an egregious violation of the secular sanctity of the courtroom.
Nag,
After deep thought... are you a parent??? becuase i really think that the real issue here and please correct me if I am wrong, please. But it is hard for poeple tp realte to tohers whent hey have not walked in thier shoes.. and although you can LOVE someone you will never understand the bond between a mother or father and their child... So with that said as I have very strong feeling about the death penalty and a weird as it might sound in a lot of ways I am very opposed to the death penalty for my reasons but with all of that said if someone ever touched my 7 year old daughter or my daughter period... i can not fathom what I would do to that individual or what I would want to do to that individual and i only weigh 115lbs it would take an army to keep me away from wanting to kill that individual. that's the truth.
SIWL
Brenda, I looked at some sites on G20, realized it was too much for me to read and noticed I had a lack of interest. I think this was very unfair of me, to ignore this subject that you seem so passionate about. Can you please explain everything to me? It is not that I am not interested, I think I am too lazy to do the research and try to understand on my own. Please tell me what it all is about. And if I can help in any way, I would be more than happy to assist you in your efforts. :)
The Ellie Nessler case is one that I think the Insanity Plea should be used and accepted.
And Nagarjuna, did I tell you in emails the reasons why I never went to rehab and always made a point to never be busted for drugs? For the same exact reasons that hurt Ms. Nessler. Everyone was on her side, but as facts of her past record and drug abuse came out, the public started slowly backing away from her side.
Her criminal record had nothing to do with her being a loving mother that did what any caring parent would want to do. Especially knowing how the laws are, and the molester would have been back out on the streets again. And he had previous offenses.
SIWL Nice shot, Ellie.
Also, Nagarjuna, I believe that Ellie went to jail without any arguments. She was fine to do her sentenced time. She knew she committed a crime, and she knew she would have to face the outcome. I do not agree with the outcome though.
There is excused killings for self defense, and also the insanity plea.
SIWL
Brenda, I'm not a parent. As I said once before, I would never willfully bring a child into this messed up, overpopulated world. Even so, I think I can feel some empathy for a parent whose child has been abused by an adult.
Hell, I was ready to beat to a pulp a neighbor whose big dogs got loose, ran from across the street into my yard, and almost killed my elderly cat who was lying on the front porch minding his own business. I complained to him about his dogs endangering my cat and tearing up my plants, and he sloughed it off by acting like it was nothing for me to be upset about and by saying, "I don't care about your cat. Besides, if he hadn't been outside, my dogs couldn't have harmed him." I saw red and was ready to take this guy apart.
But the fact is, Brenda, if I had swung on him and ended up hurting him, I would have been in the wrong, and the law would have been justified in imposing sentence on me. And if someone brings a loaded handgun into a court of law and murders someone with it, that is VERY wrong, no matter how much we may understand the emotions that led to her doing it. And I believe that society must send a loud and clear message that it won't tolerate this kind of behavior.
Denise,
Thank you I appreciate that, but please don't beat yourself up it is ignored by many and not intentionally either. I also know that if you just try to listen to the news you will never understand this and they are projecting this as a great idea. But basically in Pittsburgh the top financial leaders and bankers of the world are meeting right now for the last three days solid, people are protesting in the thousands!!!! not this little anarchist group that the news keeps reporting but people are protesting in the thousands!!!! I feel i have to say that twice because it is imperative for people to understand the truth of what is really happening. They are discussing a financial failure to where the government is going to finally introduce the Amero which is a world currency and the end of the Dollar or any other form of currency the entire world will have the Amero and then will be ran bu what is called the World banking system. Basically which all equates to a New World Order government which is a government that is unionized meaning we will all become unions and we will NO longer known as America but as the North American Union. Now this control will be by the federal reserve and the world banking system... This is very serious for America and the entire world as we all know it. Iran is against this and that is why this UN thing is a big issue right now, but they are saying just like they did with Iraq that they are harboring weapons this thing with Iran is going to get worse. But this is all being planned by this group of people in this G20 conference as we speak as to why thousands of people are protesting right now for three days straight and trying to tell people what is going on but the MAIN stream media will not cover this, and they are introducing this today conveniently after it has been going on for three days but like its all a good thing that all the top financial people are meeting and trying to figure out the financial system for the people blah blah its all bullshit...all of it... there is so much here its hard for me to know how and where to begin....But I am passionate about it as well as every American should be. I heard fox news call two protesters yesterday not a patriot to her face just because she does not believe in a world government or the Amero and she feels it will harm the American people this was a lady with a PHD. This is what is happening if your against anything that the government has to offer you are now unpatriotic and against pres. Obama...Or you are a communist which is what that guy called that doctor also. We are being fooled here people everyone needs to wake up!
Nagarjuna,
The fact still remains is that my point has been proven!!! and I mean no ill will in this comment but you can not fathom the love for your own child... that's a fact. So I understand why you can not relate to people feeling these people should die, because I can tell you from a parent like I said earlier that I would want that person to die if they hurt my child..ANY parent would... that might go away after awhile and I mean awhile but at first no way!!! Its okay that you can not relate to that feeling but its a fact that parents have those feelings. It just is more clear as to why you are so opposed to it period is because you can not relate to that one feeling. That's all. I also mean relate on a real level everyone can go yeah i can imagine what it would be like but until you are a parent and the thought of someone violating your OWN child when those thoughts in general come up for me I get angry and sickened so if it really happened so help me god i would go ballistic...
Ellie did know what she did was wrong she did get temporary insanity because when again Nag something like this happens to your child you go insane....
Where did Tara go??? :(
SIWL
Brenda,I agree that I may not be able to empathize as fully as you or I would like with your feelings toward adults who sexually abuse children. Conversely, you might well not love cats as much as I love mine (they are MY children :-)) or be able to empathize fully with the almost murderous rage I felt toward my neighbor.
But it seems that we're talking about two issues here. First, how the law should respond to an Ellie Nessler, and how people in general should feel about and treat adults who molest children.
I guess I've made my thoughts pretty clear about both. I don't condemn Nessler for what she did, although, parenthetically speaking, I think her lifestyle before her son was abused coupled with her hatred for the abuser and her murdering him and justifiably going to prison for it may well have screwed up her son a lot more than the abuser did. And I don't condemn people, especially parents, for hating those who molest children.
What I've been doing here is trying to present arguments concerning how, in the best of all possible worlds and armed with a deeper philosophical, psychological, and spiritual understanding of crime, we SHOULD regard and treat those who molest children and commit other egregious crimes. I guess I do this in the quixotic hope that ideals can draw us toward them even if we never fully actualize them.
Nagarjuna,
See and there is where we differ I guess is that I think that night her son probably felt the safest he had felt in a long time just knowing that vile man was not here to hurt him or anyone else again.There were also several other victims here that were too scared to testify.. A testament of what these poor boys endured. Personally I know that he was tormented by what happened to him by that man. He always stayed by his mom, and when she was released he did in interview on the Geraldo show when he still had his own TV am talk show with his mom, remember the Gerald show WOW that was a long time ago..But anyways I think his moms absence yes may have hurt him, but I know that he never thought his mom did something wrong.He was behind her, she protected him and basically she lost it seeing her son suffer so badly before testifying and just everything he had to go through. I can also tell you as much as I would never want to harm another human being this is where I struggle if they hurt my daughter id want them dead... and i don't know how long it would take for that to go away... if ever.
Wow, Brenda. I have to say. I wish I had your energy with some of the issues I would like to change in this world.
I do not know what I can do to help. I really do not understand fully what is going on still. But to me, if I do not have to change my money over in Peru, then be confused as to how much money I actually have because I do not understand their Soles monetary system, I would be happy. But if I can help you in any way, I am in.
Will this change the way that our economy affects other countries? I know that when our economy goes down, so does the value of money in Peru. None of it makes sense to me. When I get to Peru, I give all of my money to my fiance, and leave whatever is left over with him when I leave. So, I really do not have to deal with money there.
Thank you Denise,
This is going to change EVERYONES monetary system, Peru, everybody this is serious and the way to help is to find it somewhere in your heart to ask questions and research these things you owe to yourself and your family. The way to help is to get involved... Boogie started but once you do you find the passion to keep going because there is so much that is really going on that we don't hear about on the regular news that you have to research and you have to start asking questions you will be amazed with what you can learn. 9/11 is a good place to start because that was the major event that gave footage and people like scientist a way to start telling what really happened that day which has helped stage what is occurring now...But these are serious issues as serious as what to do about pedophiles..its all the same because our world is changing rapidly as we know it so what we know now will only be a thing of the past...what happens when we are no longer America any more but a North American Union.. We are a world government everything we know and understand is going to change... How do we fix something that we can no longer change?
SIWL
Brenda--
As I recall, you wrote previously that you knew Ellie Nessler for a time, and you certainly seem to be more familiar with the case than I am. But if she was involved with drugs and with other people involved with drugs during her son's formative years, I suspect that this could have had a very harmful effect on her son that was exacerbated by her festering hatred for her son's abuser, her murder of him, and her subsequent trial and incarceration. Her son may have loved her and supported her for what he did, but this doesn't mean that he wasn't seriously harmed by her actions.
I certainly DO remember the old Geraldo shows, including "Goodnight America" way back when. I still don't understand what the hell he's doing on the "Fox Noise" channel. :-)But I guess I'd do a show there too if I got a fat paycheck for it. :-)
The laws of Physics do not lie!!!!!!!!!!
Nagarjuna,
Well I do know that in the Ellie case that there was speculation in town that she was on drugs prior to all of this actually my dad was a paramedic and I remember him talking about it... that that was a rumor... small towns.. but i do not know the truth if that or after the fact i mean her release and her involvement with drugs.. But i too think that when anyone does drugs and you have a family and you have an addiction that it is harmful to everyone around you.. So that I will say I agree with, for sure.
Nag,
Also I knew her son and had met his mom once.His aunt lived in Angels Camp, Ca which is a really small town i mean really small not even one stop light in the entire town at this time he would come and play with her kids. He then moved to Angels Camp after this happened to him with his Aunt and lived in Angels camp for a little bit and he had anger issues at that time not bad but he went through a really traumatic event. It was hard for him to adjust.. from what I remember but that was brief and then I was unsure what happened until I heard Ellie had cancer and then she was released and then I saw that show with her on Geraldo after with her son, ect.
Yeah I know Geraldo on Fox News.. I used to like Geraldo, Used to.. not just because of Fox but he has totally changed... I used to actually think he was a good reporter, and I hope someone tells him that one day...
Samantha,
Your story this am was cute with the animal actually... lol.. im laughing to myself my house is like a little farm i could see my daughter trying to catch something and bring it home.. :) warm fuzzies..
From the Complaint, we spent a lot of time today trying to figure out why or how the prosecution determined the various charges in the Complaint today (they are obviously not equivalent to what Jaycee experienced), but that doesn't really matter when you see the result of a guilty verdict which is likely to happen.
We also pretty much figured out Jaycee's birthday is 05/04 if anyone wants to place that on your calendars and send her a little something.
The Garridos are not facing 29 charges each, they are facing 16 charges each. Three charges list both of them, and 13 of the charges apply solely to P. Garrido and 13 apply solely to N. Garrido.
Figuring sentence time was pretty tricky for us because several of the Penal Codes are not even listed anymore (older codes that applied when Jaycee was kidnapped)... so, we just decided to share what was easiest to show you and for you to look up if you want (knowing the others are not even necessary to stop them from ever seeing the light of day with just this much). So from only charges 7 through 20 (we also see these as the least severe punishable crimes of those listed in the Complaint)
18 to 23 years are the possible sentence for EACH of the 7 charges - for each Scumbag Defendant. That means each, if convicted on these charges (how could they not be) will get an equivalent of ******126 to 161 YEARS****** when found guilty of these charges.
(This does not include all Special Allegations Penal Codes included in the Complaint, further conforming the sentences to allow no probation/parole, additional priors, 3 strikes your out, or additional Federal time for priors, etc.) (there are some errors in the Complaint, they do not show any priors for Nancy so some of these Special Allegations will not apply to her anyway, but they list her with P.G. in them.)
Here are the penal codes that apply to a sentence with these charges
288. (a) Any person who willfully and lewdly commits any lewd or
lascivious act, including any of the acts constituting other crimes
provided for in Part 1, upon or with the body, or any part or member thereof, of a child who is under the age of 14 years, with the intent of arousing, appealing to, or gratifying the lust, passions, or sexual desires of that person or the child, is guilty of a felony and shall be punished by imprisonment in the state prison for three, six, or eight years.
(b) (1) Any person who commits an act described in subdivision (a)
by use of force, violence, duress, menace, or fear of immediate and
unlawful bodily injury on the victim or another person, is guilty of a felony and shall be punished by imprisonment in the state prison for ******three, six, or eight years.*******
PLUS
667.8. (a) Except as provided in subdivision (b), any person
convicted of a felony violation of Section 261, 262, 264.1, 286,
288a, or 289 who, for the purpose of committing that sexual offense,
kidnapped the victim in violation of Section 207 or 209, shall be
punished by an additional term of nine years.
(b) Any person convicted of a felony violation of subdivision (c)
of Section 286, *******Section 288********* subdivision (c) of Section 288a who, for the purpose of committing that sexual offense, kidnapped the victim, who was under the age of 14 years at the time of the offense, in violation of Section 207 or 209, shall be punished by an additional term of 15 years. This subdivision is not applicable to conduct proscribed by Section 277, 278, or 278.5.
I forgot to put highlight the ********additional 15 years******* in the last three lines above.
Not that we think the Garridos will last long in prison.
Good morning everyone.
I looked at the charges that Freak posted. And I thought the entire time about how each time a person has an attorney, I believe the attorney and the judge get together to play a game of poker, and discuss each other's reputations. Then the judge says ok we can save your rep by dropping charges down to all misdemeanors. What a great attorney reputation you will have. Lets let the prosecuting attorney win the poker game tonight. wink wink
They treat criminal cases in court like Kohl's treats a clearance sale. Raise the price before the sale, then drop everything down.
If you have an attorney, you can make speeding recklessly down the highway on a suspended license look like the officer pulled you over just to say hola, once its all said and done.
Goodmorning :)
Denise, I truely don't recall ever attacking or critizing any of your personal stories here.
In fact, I appreciate you opening up about how you were raised. Its given me some "food for thought" bc my step-son has had some similiar experiences at his mother's home.
Oh. Coonhound, when I made that remark, it was in reference to BoogieManHater saying I was saying things for a pity party, and once when Nagarjuna was frustrated at me, he said something about me using my personal experiences for something. I forgot what it was that he had said, but it was some negative. lol
I did not take any of it really personal. But I did notice that some people had commented on me saying things about my personal past here. :) Its not a problem. Even when they said it.
Basically, I do not want to be irritating here. If my stories are annoying, I will stop speaking about them. I only say things that I think relate to the subject and the way those experiences have made me feel about about certain subjects, really.
Denise,
You said u don't want to be irritating here. I feel the same way, I don't want to either.
So ur saying u mixed me up with another?
I only want to completely clear things up bw u and me. I was really confused when you had "dismissed me" a few pages ago.
It is all water under the bridge, no hard feelings, but I want to understand how I may have come off wrong, as if my intentions were bad or playing games.
I do understand this, you are a visual person. I've been noticing it. When someone tells a story you don't just think about it, you visualize and use your personal experiences too. So I can see where my "vulgar comment" (the one about humman traiffickers and my gun) creeped you out. I meant no harm by it. It really was a crude expression or visual about how much I deteste those that partake in human trafficking.
You know, Coonhound? I get alot of people in here confused. lol If I am going to respond to something someone said, I always have to scroll to see which name I am replying to. I do not remember who said what really. I know Goblinbee and Nagarjuna, maybe because I speak with them in email, and I am more familiar with them than I am with others here.
I was not dismissing anyone here. Honestly. I have no more right to be here than anyone else. But yes, at one time, there was something said here that I thought the person may have been here only to play games, and I do remember later apologizing for misunderstanding. I do not want to speak with persons that come here on less than a serious level, really. Not that they are not welcome here. I just do not wish to correspond with them.
I think it was Boogie that said I am here for a pity party. I am not even sure if I am correct about that. Someone said it, it didnt bother me. Everyone has their opinions, and I respect all.
I also do not have a problem with anyone here. I actually value each and every person here to the point that it is surprising to me.
I made some comments about some of the things said in here that were disturbing to me. And when I offered the Websleuths page, it was only to be helpful. Not to get rid of anyone permanently. lol
I actually feel a closeness to the persons in this room. And I would miss anyone that stopped commenting in here. I sometimes worry that I am being annoying. And I accept all constructive criticism in the things that I say or do in here.
Oh. I remember that comment. And really, like I said, I do not even remember who says what in here, so if you said something disturbing to me that I commented negatively about, I couldnt possibly hold it against you, as I had quickly forgotten that you had been the one that said it.
To that comment, I think if we were all in a room face to face, I would not have said anything about it. Maybe I would have made a face, but nothing bad. I think I felt that this maybe wasnt the best particular place for us to make these types of comments. But then I also made the vulgar remark of saying "Lets fry them". I should not have said it in this blog probably. And Nagarjuna called me on it. And I never apologized to him, but I will now. I apologize for the vulgarity of the WAY I said what I truly meant. :) peace
On a different note, I read that Elizabeth Smart will be testifying against her captors.
Remember that abduction?
Anyway, I read about it yesterday.
Google when you have a chance.
Oh and denise...Peace:) back at ya.
:)
I thought Elizabeth Smarts case was over with a long time ago. And whatever happened with the boy in Missouri. I have to find his name. Do you hear about him? He ran away when the kidnapper took another child.
Not sure about the Missouri one. I'll google it when you find his name.
Did you read @ smart yet?
Elizabeth Smart May Face Alleged Kidnappers in CourtSep 25, 2009 6:17 PM EDTElizabeth Smart would tell a court the former street preacher accused of abducting her was motivated by sex, not religion, if she is allowed to testify at his competency hearing, a federal prosecutor said Friday.If Smart's testimony is allowed, it would be the first time she has faced Brian David Mitchell in court.The 55-year-old who allegedly held Smart captive for nine months after kidnapping her in June 2002 has been diagnosed with a delusional disorder and was found incompetent to stand trial, along with his wife, Wanda Eileen Barzee. Both were charged with multiple felonies in state court in 2003, and last year a federal grand jury indicted the pair on charges of kidnapping and unlawful transportation of a minor.Smart's father, Ed Smart, believes Mitchell's antics - singing in court and refusing to cooperate with psychiatric evaluators - are an act.And Assistant U.S. Attorney for Utah David Backman said Friday that Elizabeth Smart would testify about how Mitchell acts "when he is not under the microscope" - that he was preoccupied and driven by sexual desire."We're pleading with the court to finally give Elizabeth Smart the voice she never wanted to have, but that Brian David Mitchell forced her to have," Backman told U.S. District Judge Dale Kimball Friday at a hearing on whether to allow Smart to testify. She is among 43 witnesses prosecutors have proposed putting on the stand.Mitchell's federal public defender, Robert Steele, said he doesn't oppose Smart's testimony, but believes it should be limited to her experiences with Mitchell, not opinions about whether she believes he is competent.Steele filed a motion Aug. 24 seeking to block any "lay witness," including family, friends, former church leaders and staff at state hospital, saying they are not qualified to assess mental competency.Kimball said he is likely to rule on the issue Monday. A 10-day competency hearing is scheduled to begin Nov. 30.Mitchell was accused of taking Smart, who was 14 when she was kidnapped, as a polygamous wife to fulfill a religious prophecy. She was found in March 2003, walking the streets of a Salt Lake City suburb with Mitchell and Barzee.Smart, now 21, would testify early - at a hearing on Oct. 1 - because she is leaving in October to serve a religious mission for The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in Paris. Backman said he expected Smart would provide two hours of testimony.
So this is a competancy hearing for Smart's kidnapper.
Good morning, all.
Hi Goblinbee.
Goblinbee,
I got such a kick out of how one of your chickens follows you around the yard as ur pulling weeds and takes them out of the bucket.
One of my dogs follows me around as I'm gardening and likes to take off with my tools and gloves.
He's really sneaky about it, too!
He'll slowly walk around the side off me that I'm not looking, gently pick it up and slowly walk backwards, turn around and then take off a running! Lol, as if I don't know what he's up to!
Thanks YouAreSuchAFreak. I was expecting about 200 years for them, but I see it will likely go over 200. Hurray.
Hi samantha. U doing well today?
Yes. Thank you Coonhound. Will be doing better once I get some sleep. Looking forward to my 3 days off now. Hope you are well!
Coonhound, the Missouri boys name is Shawn Hornbeck. He was held captive for 4 years. He ran away after his kidnapper stole another boy. Shawn wanted to protect the boy, I think. Wait, no. I think actually a witness lead the police to the kidnapped boys. I do not remember exactly. You can read it. I will be back later.
This is a good movie:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qX_qOaZmCFM
Yes, very well. Looks like we'll have a beautiful fall day here in "my neck of the woods."
Glad to hear you have 3 days off. How nice that'll be, I hope the weather is wonderful for you!
Denise, oh yes, I've been keeping up with that one, too. He did an interview a week or two ago, I watched it. He is an amazing young man.
Denise,
Oh, I just remembered how he was found...the kidnapper's employer had heard the vehicle description of the van used to kidnap the 2nd boy and and called police! Also the kidnapper had called off work sick at the time the 2nd boy was snatched. And the employer found that strange, too.
Hello BrendaStar. I was reading your comments from yesterday regarding keeping an army off anyone that did such horrible things as Garrido did to your child. I think for the most part, mothers and fathers all around the world feel that way. If I had to pick between this type of reaction and the reaction we get from those parents who value money and drugs over and above their child, I would pick your reaction in a heartbeat. The only problem with this is, now not only will your daughter be hurt from the perp, but she will now be hurt more when you are taken away. Just go for the knee caps and let the animals in his future take care of him is my theory.
"and once when Nagarjuna was frustrated at me, he said something about me using my personal experiences for something."
SIWL
Denise, maybe you didn't see what I wrote yesterday, but I said that I've never criticized you for writing about your personal trials and tribulations, nor have I ever made fun or light of them, even at my most frustrated and exasperated. :-)
or would take an army to keep you off the perp I meant to say.
I hope Jaycee is happy and secured by the sentence of more than a probable 200 years. But it sure would be nice if she could be assured she would never run across him again with a death penalty option. Not sure who can trust that he will not get out after we have seen how easily he skipped right through the system the last time.
SIWL
Thank you, Nagarjuna. And good morning.
Samantha, my dad always told us if you have to shoot anyone make sure they are dead. You get less time that way. That was 30 years ago, and in California, though.
Well, it is very tempting to stay here and talk, I do enjoy speaking to everyone. But, I'm gonna go take advantage of a beautiful day! our weather has been rainy and gloomy for weeks now, so this day is truely a treat for me and the dogs!
Boogie, I saw that you had tried to touch base with me yesterday...I'll be popping in and out today and tommorrow, but will be able to be more attentive come tuesday.
Honestly, I really think it is going to be heartbreaking for Jaycee, but mostly her 2 daughters, with any sentence that the Garridos receive. And if they receive prison time, I am wondering if the girls will want to visit them. It will be difficult for anyone involved. And I hope that the family and those counselling the girls will be understanding of their feelings.
Good Morning Samantha,
Hope you had a good day at work yesterday.. Im heading to work in a little bit about a half hour. I agree with you though that if I was actually to carry something of that nature out that my daughter would be the only one hurt in the end, but I guess that's the hard part of being a good parent is that the anger might make you want to do something of that nature but I know in my case id have to hold myself back nothing would take me away from my daughter... and my dad having a ranch when we were kids its funny you bring up the knee cap thing my dad always taught be about guns and how to shoot (responsibly)he also always told me that if someone was trying to hurt me and i need to immobilize them that the knee is the most painful place to get shot as well as it will immobilize you immediately... ;)
I like your style. :)
It hurts me when my son sometimes asks if he can see his natural family. It hurts me to say No to him. It hurts me that he wants to even see them. It hurts me because I know it hurts him. I did let him see a few of them after the adoption, until it became detrimental to him. Now I am waiting and hoping that he will forget they exist. I do not remember people that were in my life when I was 7, so hopefully, he will not either.
She was speaking in insanity terms. But either way, the reality is, assault is not as much time as murder, plus you have the mindset which can go a long way. I also see a self defense case here as well.
Your dad is correct, it also slows the bad guys down for life!
Kind of a disgusting thought, but what a problem for a rapist huh!
I do need to get some sleep. Sorry I missed you YouAreSuchAFreak. Thanks for the calculations. Goodday/night Denise, Coonhound, BrendaStar and all.
Samantha,
LoL...
So was anyone at all interested in what I was talking about yesterday.. no one responded, so i assume not. But I am sorry I have to bring it up again...
Bye Samantha have a good rest.. talk to you later
Goodnight Samantha. Sleep well.
Brenda, are you talking about the G20? I still do not fully understand it.
Denise,
Yes.. Watch this movie its part 1/16 and you can watch it all if youd like it gives you a better understanding or an understanding..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qX_qOaZmCFM
its worth watching.. check it out when you get some time.
"Not sure who can trust that he will not get out after we have seen how easily he skipped right through the system the last time."
SIWL
Samantha, it doesn't seem possible to me that Garrido could ever get out again after what he's done and how obviously he's done it. I think that should be the least of anyone's concern at this point.
Anyway, my wife and I are going out for awhile. See you all later.
So sorry I missed ya Samantha. We were up late last night so slept in late... (rare treat here).
I love the knees idea, but I would have to take a third shot right between the two knee caps also. Actually I am kind of with BrendaStar also, I don't think I could stop there unless somebody was there to stop me. I think after my third shot, as he was coming down, my knee would instinctively jerk up and crash into his face. Then, I think I could walk away like Clint Eastwood into the sunset.
Time to go play in the sun. Hope to see you sometime on your 3 days off.
Brenda, I am just not intelligent enough to understand this. I have watched 3 movies so far. I am grasping none of it. I am so sorry.
I never understood why a bunch of bars of gold could have so much value that he with the most gold, wins. You cannot eat gold. You cannot live by gold alone. And what is so special about gold? It stays locked in some vault forever. What good does that do? I do not understand its value at all.
Brenda, I am looking at this, and I am thinking that I am already a slave. I never have money. I used to, but now, I do not. So I do not see how any of this will affect me really. I am on video 5, by the way.
I hopefully am selling my Camaro today. I will look at the rest of the videos later. I have to go through loops to get this car to this man and to get his stupid checks that he cannot get cashed anywhere.
Have a good day everyone.
Do something helpful for Jaycee!!
A trust has been established for the family of kidnap victim Jaycee Dugard.
Donations may be made to the Dugard Family Trust, #134163898, c/o Bank of the West, 2507 Somersville Road, Antioch CA 94509.
All donations will be provided to the Dugard family to assist in its recovery, according to Antioch Mayor Jim Davis. Authorities say Dugard was held by Phillip and Nancy Garrido for 18 years in their Antioch-area backyard along with two children fathered by her abductor.
Do something helpful for Jaycee!!
A trust has been established for the family of kidnap victim Jaycee Dugard.
Donations may be made to the Dugard Family Trust, #134163898, c/o Bank of the West, 2507 Somersville Road, Antioch CA 94509.
All donations will be provided to the Dugard family to assist in its recovery, according to Antioch Mayor Jim Davis. Authorities say Dugard was held by Phillip and Nancy Garrido for 18 years in their Antioch-area backyard along with two children fathered by her abductor.
LOL, this near death experience is quite funny and suiting for this blog. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cqDZUCMgf5Q&feature=fvw
YouAreSuchAFreak and everyone:
Did you hear of this one?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lIKef5Sa5qE&NR=1
The man killed the mother, then stole the kids, and killed one of them before being caught.
There is just too much of this going on. I wish we would all get in tune with what it really is that Nagarjuna is saying, and find the causes and cures to these monsters, BEFORE they end up like this. :(
"There is just too much of this going on. I wish we would all get in tune with what it really is that Nagarjuna is saying, and find the causes and cures to these monsters, BEFORE they end up like this."
SIWL
Denise, I don't doubt that some here will think or say that the best "cure" for these crimes is to start hatefully executing every kidnapper, rapist, child molester, and murderer in sight. But have you ever heard the old maxim, "Nature abhors a vacuum."?
I'm inclined to believe that no matter how many people we execute, if we don't change the underlying conditions that helped cause people to commit these kinds of crimes, more people may very well be born and conditioned to take the places of those we execute.
I believe that, while we need to deal humanely but firmly with serious crime, we also need to become a more understanding and compassionate society toward EVERYONE.
Nagarjuna, I think that most people realize what could make these people the way they are. There can be several reasons. Drugs, emotionally and physically abusive parents, peer rejection, poverty, violence, lack of discipline, maybe genetic mental deficiencies.
That is what I was saying in my last comment. I wish we can stop all of the causes of this illness, before it even is able to develop. It is too bad we cannot stop all of the above causes in each household.
As for how we should lovingly deal with the criminals, I am not going to go there with you this evening, as I think we have come to a brick wall on this.
SIWL
Also, Nagarjuna, I have never heard that saying. And I do not understand it.
I was speaking about dealing with persons before they become monsters, not after the fact. :)
This is a good video pertaining to the topic here.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2MBQ0fGbsak
I have been in youtube looking at courtroom attacks. This murderer escaped from prison. They found him, and took him to court, UNCUFFED. He attacked his attorney.
Denise,
You have to get to the end, they are talking about what is being planned.. and what is.I understand I have no money ever either..and I am a single mom.... so with that said.. seriously this effects everybody and it will effect us the worst.. Its a long movie.. part 5 is just the beginning its explains how the federal reserve operates which most Americans dont even know. Trust me its very pertinent information...
Denise,
And you are intelligent...we all are..
Coonhound,
Thanx for the tid bit on Elizabeth Smart very interesting.. I am still very interested in the Elizabeth Smart case..
watch this video everyone this judge goes off on this mother that he feels allowed the sexual abuse of her two daughter one being handicap occur, and this judge sentenced him to two LIFE sentences +20 years..
oops ha ha for got to post the link sorry... here it is..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jbfZGSy-ydY&feature=related
Brenda, if you type in youtube, courtroom attacks or courtroom fights, you will see many different things. Criminals escaping. Criminals murdering inside the courtroom. Criminals cussing the judge out. The judge flying over the bench to jump on a criminal that is beating on the victim. Criminals punching their attorney. Criminals tearing the courtroom up.
And I seen the video of the judge telling the mother off. It was great. I thought about posting it here also.
Nagarjuna, I just thought about something. While I was typing the things to Brendastar about what things she would find in the youtube videos, I left out purposefully, the families of the victims that beat on the criminal.
But while thinking about that, it made me to think about this, Nagarjuna. When you say that these criminals have an illness. And we should have compassion for them, and not say bad wishes to them here. How do you feel about the families that go to court and beat on the criminals that murdered their family member? We have already discussed Nellie Essler, bless her soul. But can we not say that these persons also have an illness, the ones that attack the murderer of their family member? And we should have compassion for them?
I cannot get my point across tonight because my own little criminals are here fighting like idiots tonight. I do not think I got my point across correctly.
Hi there. Anyone around?
Hi Coonhound. I just got on and caught up for the day. A slower day than some, so I caught a break. :)
Hello to everyone. I'll be off and on tonight.
Coonhound,
I am around I keep checking in once in awhile..
why hello there goblinbee...
Hi goblinbee.
Hi brendastar. Your welcome on the Smart update. I was surprised to see that article bc I hadn't heard anything on it for so long.
Hi BrendaStar.
Coonhound,
I thought it was a great article.. I hadnt either until Jaycee was found then they were on the news because it was so similar to Jaycee.
Have we spoken about the Atlanta Courthouse murderer? He was being charged with rape, and he overpowered the police officer that was escorting him, and took her gun. He went into the courthouse and killed the judge and 2 others, then ran off and killed a federal agent during his escape.
I think this is important to bring up in this blog, because he is a rapist that had the chance to actually escape and commit more crimes. This is why the death penalty seems the safest way of stopping these criminals.
I feel sorry for their illnesses, but they have to be stopped. I think Osama Bin Laden also has major mental issues. I am curious if Nagarjuna feels sorry for him.
SIWL
FUCK YOU BASTARD,
Hope your fellow inmates fuck your asshole till you die there,
Rot in Hell, you s.o.b !!!
Have a great day everyoone.
SIWL peace
"As for how we should lovingly deal with the criminals, I am not going to go there with you this evening, as I think we have come to a brick wall on this."
SIWL
Denise, how do you think Jesus would feel about criminals? No matter what crimes they committed, do you think he would hate them and want to see them suffer from society's revenge? Or do you think that he would still love them even as he condemned their crimes?
You may say that you aren't Jesus, that Jesus was God incarnate. But he was also human. And his followers aren't supposed to simply put him up on a pedestal and worship him as some exotic superbeing. They are supposed to follow his example to the best of their ability with the assistance of God's grace.
Yes, it seems impossible to love criminals such as Philip Garrido. But being a lover of the Lord requires you to try your best to love all humankind, with the Lord's help.
Remember that when you come to your "brick wall."
Nag. It is really uncalled for and unfair to tell another how to understand a religion they practice and you do not. I read somewhere in here several times that you are not a Christian, but yet you always tell Christians how to think, how to treat other people, that their right to feel that a pedophile needs to be put to death is wrong. If you are not a Christian than you do not know the word of God, and you certainly do not know Jesus. You said you read the bible, and do not believe it. But the truth for man's right to kill a murder or kidnapper is in Exodus. 21: 12 through 17.
In this case Exodus 21:16 "Whoever steals a man, whether he sells him or is found in possession of him shall be put to death."
You are entitled to feel however you want to feel. You have no right trying to shame anyone for how they feel. You especially do not have a right to teach Christianity when you know nothing about it.
You have to allow him in to know him and learn.
Denise,
This is an easier video to understand.. you should watch it.. its the full length version and its about an hour and a half...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Yx9NRX37SM
Hi BrendaStar. I can totally understand your cause and energy. The battle is to big for me, and I have seen untruths on both sides of this issue. I do not see it as a lost cause, but the battle is going to be long and likely fruitless given the control the citizens have given to the government and the innate way the government keeps the citizens so busy, tired and withdrawn. So much so, that many do not have the ability to get involved and stay involved.
I can see this with Denise, and I definitely feel it.
The government has such a strong hold and the media censorship, what a laugh. When it suits them, they use it, but when they do not like what others have to say, they don't allow it to be printed. A perfect example is CNN. When they offer the viewers to post comments to their stories on their website, when they don't like it, they won't post it. It is going to happen, there are not enough hours in the day for people to do what it will take to shout loud enough. You will need one hell of an organizer to put an end to it.
Part of what the government is doing since 9/11, didn't really start on then, but has been the plan for many many years. To make the earth, all one people, as they made the many races in America one people. I like the idea of this. The money thing hurts, but it is what is going to have to happen in order to accomplish this. The way they are going about it, is a disgusting shame, and those involved should be brought up on charges no matter what office they hold, just as any other murderer.
SIWL
Samantha, you're right. I'm not a practicing Christian. But I don't believe that this, in and of itself, invalidates my claims concerning what Christianity teaches. After all, whom would you believe? A "Christian" who says that Jesus approves of lying, cheating, and stealing, or a non-Christian who says that these are sins? A Christian who says that Jesus hates those who commit sins and crimes and wants you to hate them too, or a non-Christian who says that Jesus loves everyone and wants you to do the same?
My point is that it's best to judge someone's claims regarding Christianity on their own merits and not in terms of whether or not that person is Christian. And when judging my claims on their merits, I respectfully ask you to use all of your mind, heart, and soul. When you do that, do you believe that Jesus wants you to hate anyone for any reason?
Having said this, and for what it's worth, I used to be Christian, and I continue to study and reflect upon the teachings of the faith. So, I don't think it would be fair to say that I don't understand anything about Christianity's teachings and underlying spirit.
However, before this discussion goes any further, please let me make something clear, Samantha. When I wrote what I did previously to Denise, I wasn't telling her that a Christian can't support capital punishment. I happen to believe that one would be hard-pressed to persuasively argue that the death penalty is compatible with the overall message of Christian teachings, but I concede that there may be room for disagreement about this, your Exodus citation notwithstanding.
What Denise and I were talking about was loving criminals or, at least, regarding or trying to regard them with empathy and compassion. Denise said she encountered a "brick wall" of disagreement with me on this, and I suggested a way that she might use to climb over this wall. I suggested that she ask herself what Jesus would want her to do.
I wasn't trying to "shame" her, and, knowing, Denise as well as I think I've come to, I don't think I could shame her even if I wanted to. :-) At least, not unless she had good reason to feel ashamed.
Nag. Why do you want to turn this into something it is not. In other words, what does your last comment to Denise have to do with this new comment of yours:
"...what Christianity teaches. After all, whom would you believe? A "Christian" who says that Jesus approves of lying, cheating, and stealing, or a non-Christian who says that these are sins? A Christian who says that Jesus hates those who commit sins and crimes and wants you to hate them too, or a non-Christian who says that Jesus loves everyone and wants you to do the same?"
My point is this. You are not a Christian, you don't understand but very little of Christianity, what they are allowed, what they are not, how they are to respond to others, how much they have to take from others, how much they have to take. All a Christian is asked to do in regards to Garridos are to forgive. To forgive does not mean to let them off the hook for their disgusting crimes.
Another very important thing you need to understand is that Christians do sin, they are here to learn afterall. They have to come to terms with that, and just like anything else that takes time, especially when the Christian does not have the right to put death to the Murderers, kidnappers/rapists. Of course the are screaming out.
You on the other hand want to belittle them and malign Christianity. You want to heat up the faith, and then you want to turn around and say they are not good Christians after you do get them going. Christians are in fact told not to listen to Athiast's who condemn them, because, exactly as you do, you antagonize them to bring out those traits.... you keep at it to pull that out of them. Jesus also instructs Christians to talk to non-believers, but only up to a point. Christians are instructed to share the word, but given time, if it comes to the state it obviously has with you with many people in here, they are to walk away. We are only to stick around long enough to see that you will not accept him, but not to subject ourselves to being turned away from him through your words.
Gods word says to love thy neighbor, he also instructs to forgive (so that they can readily be forgiven for their own sins), he instructs that murders/kidnappers and others may be put to death. We are now past loving Garrido, according to God, the Garridos can be put to death right now. It is man's law that allows him and others to remain with us. I have found nothing in the bible that commands us to have love for these vile creatures who according to God's law should be dead.
Once again, I tell you, you have no right telling anyone they must have love for these two people or any other as and from a Christian perspective.
Our death penalty allows those condemned to select their own method of death amongst those known. Those used are the most humane as can be possibly fathomed, that is all the compassion that they are entitled to with my knowledge as a Christian.
Good afternoon, everyone.
Today brought a major change in my life. I do not know if I am happy or not. My company has gotten rid of all of their Marketing Reps. And so I no longer have this position. I did not lose my employment with the company, which is somewhat of a blessing. I will now be a homemaker, cleaning and caring for the disabled (and a few pathetic drug addicts).
I feel as if a huge weight has been lifted off of me. Marketing was alot of pressure. I was kind of hoping they were calling me into the office to fire me. It would have given me a couple of weeks of free time to get caught up in things I need to take care of. But I love to clean and help in any way I can for those unable to do it themselves anymore. I love the friendship and bond that is formed with my clients. Some great conversations you can find with the older folks.
I am not sure if my new pay plan will work for my household. I will have to wait and see. I took a pay cut to accept the Marketing job when they offered it to me. But there have been some changes since I started with the company.
Anyhow, I just wanted to say that. Not that anyone cares, lol. But you guys were part of the few people that I felt I wanted to share this change in my life with.
God bless you all. I have to go pick up my baby from school. I will be back later. peace
I forgot to add, I didn't see anywhere in here that anyone at all said that "JESUS HATES". So when I see comments like this, I do see you not only trying to malign Christians, but I see you maligning Jesus.
Congratulations, I think, Denise. This sounds like a more rewarding job anyway.
Nag, you wrote that at one time you were a Christian. I don't know exactly how far away from Jesus you are. But I suspect you were not a practicing, studying Christian if you walked away. There are things in the bible still to this day that upset me. They sometimes made me feel like why would I want to believe this, if I am not thought of as highly as Jesus or even God himself. Such as the passages regarding that once we get to Heaven we will be there to "wash his fee". Man that made me madder than a hornet. Yes, I walked away, but I found him in my life just about everywhere I turned around.... pulling and pulling and pulling, pushing me to go read those passages again. The bible was originally written in Hebrew... many many many years ago. It has been translated many times. Much of the way they talked then was also in parables. You have to pray to God through Jesus and ask him to stay with you, to guide you to the truth of his words... When you do this, you can see the light in those words and you can feel his spirit with you. You know then you have the true meaning.
I suggest you try this if there is any of the tiniest belief left in you. You will be missing out by turning your back to him.
I meant "wash his feet"
Wow, where do I start.
SIWL
Mr. Nagarjuna, my dear friend, I have to say that I really do not desire to climb the brick wall. I respect your position and I agree with you up to the brick wall. If you need, I will try to provide you a ladder. lol
I am not Jesus. I am no where close to being Him. And I think I have already established that I am not the perfect Christian either. But Nagarjuna, are you questioning my LOVE for The Lord? I can only do what I can do with who I am. And I do not exactly hate anyone. I think I demonstrate that when I say that I do understand your theory that criminals with sick minds have illnesses. But there is nothing inside me that can feel compassion for them enough to want to drop a tear for them, or to try to help them in any way. But that would be due to knowing that they cannot be helped. I do loathe those persons that set out to "beat the system" in order to get a check and all they can for free, so they do not have to be productive and work. I think Jesus would not be happy with these people either.
Nagarjuna, when you ask would someone prefer to listen to a Christian that says Jesus lies. Or a non Christian that says Jesus does not lie. I do not understand where that comes from. Because I do not believe anyone here says God lies. And I think any one in here who loves the lord, will say they themselves are not perfect. I lie, sometimes. But God never does. I sin, alot. But Jesus never has.
Anyhow, I would like to put in a request for a pity party at this time, as I have just calculated my new income, and I am not going to make it, even worse than before, so now I am getting a migraine. Migraines are worthy of pity. They really hurt. lol
my sympathies Denise. It will work out, it always does, as long as we don't let the pity party take over.
SIWL
Samantha, you say I understand very little about Christianity. But if you truly believe that Jesus regards and would want you to regard Philip Garrido as a "vile creature" to be hatefully slaughtered, and you justify this belief with biblical passages such as the one you cited from Exodus, then maybe I understand at least some aspects of Christianity better than you do. Then again, maybe you're not saying this, and maybe we disagree on less than you think we do.
For instance, you still seem to think I was telling Denise that she and all Christians should oppose the death penalty. I did not say this. I've explained very clearly that I was not saying this. What's more, I myself have said that I don't necessarily oppose the death penalty in Garrido's case, despite my misgivings about it.
Again, my point to Denise was that those who truly love the Lord and seek to follow his example should try to regard people like Garrido with compassion even if they still think he should be executed. They shouldn't feel ashamed if they find it difficult or even impossible to do this, but they also shouldn't be proud of their hatred and contempt or argue that Jesus approves of it.
And, again, one does not have to be Christian to assert things about the faith that are true, just as being Christian or professing to be Christian doesn't guarantee that what one claims about the faith is true. Judge claims about the faith by their own merits and not by the person who makes them.
You say I want to "belittle and malign" Christianity and "beat up on it" so that I can make Christians angry and then attack them for getting angry. I respectfully suggest that unless you're a mind reader or you're the good Lord himself, you don't know what my motives are here.
Have I made critical comments about Christianity? Yes. But I think I have made sound criticisms of some of its teachings. If you disagree, perhaps you can rebut some of the criticisms I've made. Have I criticized the behavior of some Christians here who have falsely accused me of being a pedophile and have behaved in other ways clearly unbecoming of a Christian? Yes. And I was right to do so.
But throughout it all, I've attempted to engage in substantive, respectful discussion with everyone attempting to do the same with me, and I've apologized and tried to make amends for the excesses to which I've occasionally fallen prey.
Samantha, if you're afraid that my words may somehow turn you or anyone else away from the faith, I have to wonder just how strong and well-grounded your faith is in the first place. But it's your and everyone else's prerogative as to whether or not you want to dialogue with me. I can't make you do it, and, although I have just as much of a right to express my opinions here as you or anyone else does, I can't make you read them.
However, I hope that you and I can continue to engage in discussion, and I promise to do my best on my end to keep it respectful and substantive.
SIWL
Samantha, you had said something to Nagarjuna, but I cannot find it to quote it. It was worded something like he tries to MAKE people feel sorry, or something to that effect. But I wanted to say, that I do not see him trying to force any belief on anyone. Rather, I see it as him trying to PRESENT an idea to everyone. And maybe we cannot see past our outraged fits of anger at the moment to try to accept anything opposite of maiming the Garridos.
I have said this before, that perhaps if Nagarjuna were presenting these ideas and theories to us in a different setting, like a classroom, we could listen and think about it better.
I believe that the death penalty is the surest and most effective way of keeping criminals from striking twice, and possibly deterring crimes also. But I agree with Nagarjuna, that no SANE person could commit a heinous crime. But I think Nagarjuna wants us to walk away from the pieces of our chopped up child, and go give the guilty person a hug and tell them how sad we are that they were struck with "rabies".
I am not going to feel sorry for Tara the zombie, after she rips my child to shreds. Nag. SIWL I will feel sorry for Tara the zombie, BEFORE she hurts my child or anyone else. But not after.
Sorry Tara, still using you as an example, lol. Love ya girl. But only until you try to eat my babies' brains. lol
lol Samantha, I might have to think about 'working the system". I, for one, will be a professional at it, and probably can get checks sent to all of you in here, and I do not even know you guys. lol
In Nag's defense, I have seen him say this several times. I always notice people ignoring these sentences of his also.
"I myself have said that I don't necessarily oppose the death penalty in Garrido's case,"
"I forgot to add, I didn't see anywhere in here that anyone at all said that "JESUS HATES". So when I see comments like this, I do see you not only trying to malign Christians, but I see you maligning Jesus."
Samantha, I'm sorry, but I'm afraid I don't understand what you're talking about here. However, I can honestly and unequivocally say that I'm not seeking to malign Christians or Jesus.
Denise. Before deciding what you think Nag is doing, maybe you should read your last message before Nag responded with this:
"...what Christianity teaches. After all, whom would you believe? A "Christian" who says that Jesus approves of lying, cheating, and stealing, or a non-Christian who says that these are sins? A Christian who says that Jesus hates those who commit sins and crimes and wants you to hate them too, or a non-Christian who says that Jesus loves everyone and wants you to do the same?".
You have to ask yourself what did I say as that led anyone to believe that lying, cheating, and stealing was a Christian thing to do; and what did I say that would lead Nag to believe that I represented "I hated". You then have to ask yourself, if you did make a statement of hate, which you did not, does that mean that GOD/Jesus taught you to hate.
The fact is, you did not say any of these things in your message that he was responding to.
Why would he do that? You have to ask yourself why would he do that. Why would he change the meaning of your words?
Nag. Why would you say:
"But if you truly believe that Jesus regards and would want you to regard Philip Garrido as a "vile creature" to be hatefully slaughtered,"
What did I say, and when did I say that P. Garrido should be "hatefully slaughtered"?
Again, you put words in my mouth. WHY?
Let us not forget, we are talking about P. Garrido and N. Garrido also.
Nagarjuna:" but they also shouldn't be proud of their hatred and contempt or argue that Jesus approves of it."
Nagarjuna, the very reason that I started to post here initially was to try to stop the people from posting their vile hatred here. And I have never said what Jesus thinks or feels, because I do not have any idea. I said before, even if I studied the Bible 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, I would still not know what Jesus is thinking. I only know what it is that I THINK Jesus wants from me. And I do not even live up to that for Him. I most likely will never set eyes on the Pearly Gates. I accept that. I do not love God to try to reach Heaven. I do not praise Him to reach Heaven. I praise Him because He is so Great and Awesome. I wish I would have realized and appreciated that earlier. I now try to live my life the way He would want me to live, by doing right. I am trying to make amends for many mistakes I have made, not for Heaven, but to try to show Him how sorry I am for being so bad in my past.
I have "ran over" Gods children a time or two in my past. There is no death penalty for me here on Earth, as nobody caught me, except for God. I will accept my punishment from Him when the time comes.
"Nagarjuna, when you ask would someone prefer to listen to a Christian that says Jesus lies. Or a non Christian that says Jesus does not lie. I do not understand where that comes from."
SIWL
Thank you for this question, Denise. It also sheds light on one of Samantha's previous comments.
I was not implying that any Christian here said that Jesus wants people to lie or that he hates or wants people to hate. I was simply trying to make the point that if someone who professed to be Christian did claim this about Jesus, we should no more believe him than we should disbelieve someone who claims not to be Christian if he says that Jesus loves everyone and wants us to as well. A Christian can make false claims about the faith, and a non-Christian can make true ones.
In other words, don't judge a proverbial book by its cover but by its content. Don't judge an argument by the person who makes it but by the merits of the argument itself.
Nag: You also said:
"...and you justify this belief with biblical passages such as the one you cited from Exodus, then maybe I understand at least some aspects of Christianity better than you do.
For instance, you still seem to think I was telling Denise that she and all Christians should oppose the death penalty."
Again, if you understand being a Christian better than I do, you need to prove this. Because where I sit, you do as God warns us Satan will do by turning words around to benefit your argument. Right here. You say that we say we should hatefully slaughter Garrido, when we did not say this. I can only assume that this is why I think you are telling Denise that she and all Christians should oppose the death penalty.
If you want to argue using words we didn't say, you must be doing it for a reason. So, now we have the "why" you are doing this down to two possible reasons. Because you want to misrepresent Christ and Christians, or because you want to save Pedophiles from the death penalty.
Nag:
You wrote here: "They shouldn't feel ashamed if they find it difficult or even impossible to do this, but they also shouldn't be proud of their hatred and contempt or argue that Jesus approves of it."
They meaning Christians I suppose. You neglect to read upon my words. God says that these pedophile/kidnappers should be put to death. There must be a reason. Hmmmm, so they can't hurt anyone else, in any way, physically, or by taking food, shelter, clothing, housing from the innocent.
Christians are human to. You can push them to limits, they will sin, and they will come around. As you can see, many stopped posting their comments. But you cannot ask us to have any more compassion on these pedophiles/rapists/kidnappers. They are condemned to death by God. It is only man that keeps them alive.
As a Christian, you should know, Satan is amongst us every where. You cannot tell me he does not have a hand in keeping his demons alive amongst us.
Nagarjuna, I feel this way. I love the Lord very much. I think I take Him for granted alot. I love God as much as I can love God, for now, I guess. What I am trying to say is that, when I cuss my kids, I still love God as much as I loved Him before the yelling started. I am not being very Christian like when I cuss and yell at my boys. But I am still loving God the same as I did the entire day.
Maybe one day when I am closer to the Lord, I will accept your views more. But for now, I cannot. But I still will pray each day and night, and I will speak of my love and faith for the Lord, and I will still Praise His Greatness. I will do all of these things, with a beer in my hand, or a needle hanging out my arm. I do not feel it will matter my sins when I praise Him, it is my love for Him that matters. And that love can never be denied.
"What did I say, and when did I say that P. Garrido should be "hatefully slaughtered"?
Again, you put words in my mouth. WHY?"
SIWL
Samantha, if you read further down that same paragraph, you saw that I realized that you may not be saying this. But I thought you might be saying it, since you did call him a "vile creature," you did advocate his execution, and it's difficult for me to imagine executing a "vile creature" who has committed "disgusting" crimes against women and children except "hatefully."
Samantha, I have the unfortunate impression that you've formed such an unfavorable impression of me and my motives that you are seeing everything I write here through the distorting prism of that, in my opinion, misperception.
Nag: You wrote:
"You say I want to "belittle and malign" Christianity and "beat up on it" so that I can make Christians angry and then attack them for getting angry. I respectfully suggest that unless you're a mind reader or you're the good Lord himself, you don't know what my motives are here."
Stop changing the words or adding words to others writings and I will stop believing this. But you continue to twist your words, and I believe there is a reason to that.
Nag: You wrote: "Samantha, if you're afraid that my words may somehow turn you or anyone else away from the faith, I have to wonder just how strong and well-grounded your faith is in the first place. But it's your and everyone else's prerogative as to whether or not you want to dialogue with me."
I am about at that point where GOD does allow me to walk away from your comments, just have many have done with you up to this point.
"I suggest you try this if there is any of the tiniest belief left in you. You will be missing out by turning your back to him."
SIWL
Samantha, at the risk of your forming an even bleaker impression of me than you seem to have already, I still must ask, What will I be "missing out" on if I don't do as you suggest?
Nagarjuna said...
"I forgot to add, I didn't see anywhere in here that anyone at all said that "JESUS HATES". So when I see comments like this, I do see you not only trying to malign Christians, but I see you maligning Jesus."
Samantha, I'm sorry, but I'm afraid I don't understand what you're talking about here. However, I can honestly and unequivocally say that I'm not seeking to malign Christians or Jesus.
September 28, 2009 3:08 PM
Then you need to go back to your comment left at 1:26 p.m. where you wrote:
" Hi BrendaStar. I can totally understand your cause and energy. The battle is to big for me, and I have seen untruths on both sides of this issue. I do not see it as a lost cause, but the battle is going to be long and likely fruitless given the control the citizens have given to the government and the innate way the government keeps the citizens so busy, tired and withdrawn. So much so, that many do not have the ability to get involved and stay involved.
I can see this with Denise, and I definitely feel it.
The government has such a strong hold and the media censorship, what a laugh. When it suits them, they use it, but when they do not like what others have to say, they don't allow it to be printed. A perfect example is CNN. When they offer the viewers to post comments to their stories on their website, when they don't like it, they won't post it. It is going to happen, there are not enough hours in the day for people to do what it will take to shout loud enough. You will need one hell of an organizer to put an end to it.
Part of what the government is doing since 9/11, didn't really start on then, but has been the plan for many many years. To make the earth, all one people, as they made the many races in America one people. I like the idea of this. The money thing hurts, but it is what is going to have to happen in order to accomplish this. The way they are going about it, is a disgusting shame, and those involved should be brought up on charges no matter what office they hold, just as any other murderer.
September 28, 2009 12:40 PM
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Blogger Nagarjuna said...
SIWL
Samantha, you're right. I'm not a practicing Christian. But I don't believe that this, in and of itself, invalidates my claims concerning what Christianity teaches. After all, whom would you believe? A "Christian" who says that Jesus approves of lying, cheating, and stealing, or a non-Christian who says that these are sins? A Christian who says that Jesus hates those who commit sins and crimes and wants you to hate them too, or a non-Christian who says that Jesus loves everyone and wants you to do the same?"
See the words: "A Christian who says that Jesus hates"
Samantha, at the beginning of this blog, I was also disturbed at some of the comments left here for the Garridos. Comments such as: God is going to get you, I hope your ass gets ripped in 9 different directions.
lol. Comments such as these make what Nagarjuna was saying about Christians not being very Christian like make more sense, maybe. And if I am here professing my love for the Lord and stating that my reasons that stop me from committing heinous crimes are because I think about the Lord, then I start calling Nagarjuna "Em Effers" because he got me riled, then I would fit into the description he was making about Christians also. But at the same time, my reasons for being a good person, ARE DUE TO THE LORD. But at the same time, I sin each and every day.
Nag. you wrote:
"
Samantha, if you read further down that same paragraph, you saw that I realized that you may not be saying this. But I thought you might be saying it, since you did call him a "vile creature," you did advocate his execution, and it's difficult for me to imagine executing a "vile creature" who has committed "disgusting" crimes against women and children except "hatefully.""
As a Christian, I can rightfully see him as a vile creature. I don't have to have love for him. I am not saying I do not have hate for him, I am saying I DID NOT SAY I HAVE HATE FOR HIM. Whether I have hate for him is between me, time to heal and GOD. I DO BELIEVE HE SHOULD DIE FOR HIS CRIMES, I DO NOT BELIEVE HE SHOULD BE AMONGST THE LIVING TODAY.
But, I am a governed citizen, and I have to abide by law, just as I enforce it. THIS DOES ADD TO MY NEGATIVE FEELINGS AND THE ABILITY TO LET GO OF ANY ADVERSE FEELINGS I HAVE FOR THESE TWO PEOPLE.
I think it is perfectly justifiable for any Christian to struggle through this.
Nag. You wrote: "I suggest you try this if there is any of the tiniest belief left in you. You will be missing out by turning your back to him."
SIWL
Samantha, at the risk of your forming an even bleaker impression of me than you seem to have already, I still must ask, What will I be "missing out" on if I don't do as you suggest?"
Nag. You said you were a Christian at one time. You profess to know Christianity better than I do, (which I deny could be possible within your words themselves), so, if truly know this you do not have to ask. But, since you asked, I am obligated to tell you. Eternal life, free from the pains of this earthly life, and in Heaven with our Father.
Denise, you wrotes: "Samantha, at the beginning of this blog, I was also disturbed at some of the comments left here for the Garridos. Comments such as: God is going to get you, I hope your ass gets ripped in 9 different directions.
lol. Comments such as these make what Nagarjuna was saying about Christians not being very Christian like make more sense, maybe."
Denise, very few of those comments have been posted in weeks. Nag continues on with this, but addresses his comments to you and others who are not saying these things. He has not responded to the last few people who have posted these comments. So, I am under the impression it is something a lot deeper than this on the surface.
Nagarjuna, if we all claimed that God does not exist, but we still wanted to see the Garridos executed. Where would your argument be then? Just curious.
SIWL
And for someone that has broken the numero uno Commandment, you sure seem to use God to your advantage alot. lol Just seems a bit comical to me that you use Him even though you do not have enough proof that He exists, so you turned your back, until it is to your benefit.
Also, on a more significant note. I do not see a lot of these people who post those comments of pain being inflicted upon the Garridos saying anything but this.
So, if they didn't say they are Christians, why is Nag just assuming they are and telling them it is not a Christian way to act?
None of this is intended to be an argument. If you care to read my comments again, you will see, it is factual copies of comments posted. Many of my whys have not been addressed. Many perceptions/accusations were made as to what or how I feel about Nag, but are not only untrue, but have nothing to do with this. Addressing the questions do.
Not so. Just want to bring this down to reality.
Yes, Samantha, I have noticed that Nagarjuna does seem to be directing his comments of Ungodly people at me, as well as the other "regulars". I tried to respond to this when I wrote my initial intentions when first posting here. But at the same time, he is pointing out to me and others, that if we are going to love God and use God in our arguments (which I do not believe I have done), maybe we should remember to be more Christian like. But when he tells me that I am not being Christian like because of my feelings about criminals, I do not agree with him.
If he tells me that I am a huge sinner because I cuss at times, or I lie sometimes, or I do not go to Church, then I will pay attention to him. lol SIWL
Denise. Did you see my post at 10:05?
You have every right as a Christian to feel the death penalty is suitable here.
Every comment I have posted since testifies to that God given directive.
Yes, good idea. Back to reality.
The things I say here are with good intent. The things I say here are real, and how I honestly feel. If I am not being a good Christian, I am sorry. I do what I can to live for the Lord. I can only pray for Him to lead me in the right direction, and to clear my mind of evil thoughts, and give me strength. Who I am, is who I am. I never try to hurt anyone. Physically or otherwise. I try to avoid arguments and fights. I try as much as I possibly can to go out of my way to help others.
I cannot change the way I feel about criminals, because I think the way I feel about them only makes sense. You, of all people, know how ridiculous some laws are, when, for example, you would have to remove a child from a perfect person that has had physical custody of a child for months because the baby got dumped on them, just to return that child to its natural and obvious strung out mother, on a whim.
I respect all religions, but I truly believe that if everyone believed in God the way I do, and lived their lives by my beliefs, there would never be crimes. Crime would not be possible. Not to say that others, even Nagarjuna, are bad people. There are many religious and non religious people out there that are caring and law abiding.
I think that laws should MAKE SENSE. With or without the Lord. They should make sense.
"You neglect to read upon my words. God says that these pedophile/kidnappers should be put to death. There must be a reason. Hmmmm, so they can't hurt anyone else, in any way, physically, or by taking food, shelter, clothing, housing from the innocent."
SIWL
Samantha, with all due respect, I think it is YOU who haven't "read upon" MY words very carefully. I have said again and again, to you as well as to others before you appeared here, that I am NOT claiming that Christians should necessarily oppose the death penalty for the Garridos. I have only said that they should not revel in their HATRED of them and other criminals. Even if they believe that the Garridos should be executed for their crimes, they should still try, with God's help, to regard and treat the Garridos with compassion
As for using biblical passages to support capital punishment of those who kidnap or molest, you can also find passages that command such things as killing your children if they badmouth you. But I hope you would never do that to your children, if you have any, and then cite the Bible as your defense. :-)
"Christians are human too. You can push them to limits, they will sin, and they will come around."
Samantha, I realize that even Christians are humans with a plethora of human weaknesses. But when they do wrong, this can be legitimately brought to their attention. And when they contradict the teachings of their faith, this too can be pointed out, even by non-Christians.
But what is really unfortunate is that many Christians do wrong and then, instead of contritely admitting their mistake or sin and apologizing for it, they continue to commit and defend it long after the fact. This is far less defensible than a momentary manifestation of human weakness.
What's more, Samantha, one of the biggest problems people like me have with Christianity is understanding what good it is to people if those Christians who claim to be "born again" or filled with the Holy Spirit generally act no better than the rest of us and, in many cases, worse than the rest of us. If Christians are supposed to be infused with the Holy Spirit, why are they as "weak" as the rest of us and "sin" just as much?
When I see this, I have to wonder if Christianity isn't a crock of nonsense. Sure, some people may find their lives uplifted by their belief and by a supportive community of fellow believers. But believers in other religions and ideologies and in communities of fellow believers can find their lives just as uplifted, suggesting that it isn't Christ or Christianity per se that's doing the uplifting but belief in SOMETHING and SOCIAL CONNECTEDNESS and SUPPORT.
"As a Christian, you should know, Satan is amongst us every where. You cannot tell me he does not have a hand in keeping his demons alive amongst us."
As I asked long before you appeared here, why does an all-knowing, all-powerful, and supremely loving God allow Satan and his demons to exist and roam free to seduce us mere humans with their supernatural cleverness and powers?
Again, you distort the meaning of the words of the bible.
"You have every right as a Christian to feel the death penalty is suitable here."
SIWL
Samantha, my dear. I'd like to get clear on something, if you'd be so kind as to help me do it. Do you still believe, despite my explicit statements to the contrary, that I told Denise that she doesn't have the Christian right to favor the death penalty for the Garridos?
Samantha, I do not worry about my "Christianityness" when I feel the way I feel about things. I know that God knows my heart. I feel that if I do anything that He is against, He also knows I do it with good intentions. I commit sins every day that I do not even realize I have committed. The same as I receive blessings that I will never know about.
Nag wrote:
"As a Christian, you should know, Satan is amongst us every where. You cannot tell me he does not have a hand in keeping his demons alive amongst us."
As I asked long before you appeared here, why does an all-knowing, all-powerful, and supremely loving God allow Satan and his demons to exist and roam free to seduce us mere humans with their supernatural cleverness and powers?"
ANSWER: FREEDOM OF CHOICE - Satan or God through Jesus. God offers eternity of peace and beauty. Satan offers pedophiles, murder, pain, etc. MAKE YOUR CHOICE
you can also find passages that command such things as killing your children if they badmouth you.
Nagarjuna, are you sure? Do you promise? Pinky swear!! Just kidding. Sorry.
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