During the month of July 2009 JM's Enterprises, 1215 Willow Pass Road * Pittsburg CA,(925) 439-8118 was the host to a powerful demonstration, the Creator has given me the ability to speak in the tongue of angels in order to provide a wake-up call that will in time include the salvation of the entire world.
You too can witness what the world believe's is impossible to produce! email: godsdesire@rocketmail.com. DON'T MISS OUT!
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12,462 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 4001 – 4200 of 12462 Newer› Newest»Nag wrote:
"You have every right as a Christian to feel the death penalty is suitable here."
SIWL
Samantha, my dear. I'd like to get clear on something, if you'd be so kind as to help me do it. Do you still believe, despite my explicit statements to the contrary, that I told Denise that she doesn't have the Christian right to favor the death penalty for the Garridos?"
Was I talking to you in my statement here Nag, or was I talking to Denise? I am sure I addressed that to Denise, if you would just take a look.
"Stop changing the words or adding words to others writings and I will stop believing this. But you continue to twist your words, and I believe there is a reason to that."
SIWL
Samantha, could you kindly tell me where I have "twisted" your or anyone else's words in a suspicious way? You've already accused me of this today, and I've explained why I said what I did and that I wasn't deliberately "twisting" anything. If you care to show me where I've "twisted" or misrepresented anything and I haven't explained myself or done it satisfactorily, please let me know so that I can address it and we can dialogue without lingering misperceptions and corresponding suspicions.
Nag wrote:
"Samantha, could you kindly tell me where I have "twisted" your or anyone else's words in a suspicious way? You've already accused me of this today, and I've explained why I said what I did and that I wasn't deliberately "twisting" anything. If you care to show me where I've "twisted" or misrepresented anything and I haven't explained myself or done it satisfactorily, please let me know so that I can address it and we can dialogue without lingering misperceptions and corresponding suspicions."
Since 10:05, I have written of several instance you have twisted words. Why are you asking now? Why do you not answer those points instead of acting as if this request to "tell me where I have "twisted" your or anyone else's words"?
Until you do answer those previous questions, until you do recognize the fact that you turn words to benefit argument, I am done responding to you.
"But you cannot ask us to have any more compassion on these pedophiles/rapists/kidnappers. They are condemned to death by God. It is only man that keeps them alive."
SIWL
So, are you saying, Samantha, that compassion and execution are mutually exclusive? In other words, are you saying that if you feel compassion for someone, you cannot be in favor of their being executed?
My son is kicked off of the football team. :(
We fight with the school over his $8.00 pair of jeans that do not fit snugly on the absence of a derriere repeatedly, for all last year and now this one. His stomach is like a beer belly, and his butt is non existent. If I find him jeans that do not "sag', he will not be able to fasten them!!!!
I realize we live in an age that kids have to pass airport security to get an education. And even then they are not safe. But my son is an Honor Student!!! Yes, Sir, No, Sir!! He was invited to Duke University for the Math Program!! Tested for the gifted program!!
He is not wearing $150.00 gangster jeans. They are WalMarts. And he had to get them from my brother, anyhow.
Oh, how I wish you all lived near me so I could bring your bright and intelligent arguments to this school with me, to fight for what is right.
I just do not understand. One size does not fit all. When a poverty stricken geek is wearing $8.00 WalMart jeans that he got from his 40 year old uncle, you can pretty much assess that he is no part of a gang. LAWS THAT MAKE SENSE!!! PLEASE!!!
Just because the crackhead mommas will claim discrimination because their son throws up gang signs and carries a gun to school, and his pants are belted at the knees, does not mean that ALL kids should have to suffer. It is utterly ridiculous and I hate this country sometimes.
whats the latest on the Garrido case?
". You say that we say we should hatefully slaughter Garrido, when we did not say this."
SIWL
Samantha, I guess that I'm still not making myself as clear as I'd like. I stated lower in the same paragraph to which you refer that you might not have been saying that it's okay for Christians should support "hatefully slaughtering" the Garridos. But I also explained to you why it sounded to me as though you were saying this. In short, can you execute WITHOUT HATRED someone you see as a "vile creature" who has committed "disgusting" acts against women and children? I guess it's possible, but it seems to me that it would be monumentally difficult.
The latest I heard was that Jaycee will testify against the Garridos if necessary.
No, you just make the suggestion that we say "hatefully slaughter".
Just for the hell of it right.
I think not.
Greetings, all! And an especial hello to Nagarjuna, Denise, BrendStar, Coonhound, and Tara (if she is still around).
I have not been posting much lately, but I have been reading when I can. I am caught up. But tomorrow I leave for a week of beach camping in S. California with my 84-year-old mother and a few other family members. I will have no computer or internet access for a whole week!
I wonder how many messages I will come back to. Right now there are 4164!
I hope the judge in the Garrido case is not as much of an apologist at Nagarjuna is lol.
Me too Dr. Webb.
I think it is a shoe in that he will not be. The public will be screaming and any judge would not have a job for much longer if he let these two pedophiles slip through any cracks more than they already have.
"I am not saying I do not have hate for him, I am saying I DID NOT SAY I HAVE HATE FOR HIM. "
SIWL
I didn't claim that you explicitly "said" this, I even conceded that you may not have meant to imply it, and I also explained why it seemed to me that you did hate him and saw nothing wrong with a Christian executing him or desiring his execution with a hateful heart. And, when we get right down to brass tacks, was I wrong about how you feel and what you think?
Again, I acknowledge that you didn't say it outright. Now will you acknowledge that I didn't say you did? :-)
Not until you acknowledge my full statement here, not just a partial segment of my statement. (as well as all my others.)
Hello, denise, nagarjuna,dr webb, goblinbee, samatha!
Nice to see you all this evening.
"Eternal life, free from the pains of this earthly life, and in Heaven with our Father."
SIWL
I asked the question I did because I didn't know what specific faith you subscribe to or what you personally understand the unpardoned "wages of sin" to be after this life. For instance, I understand that Jehovah's Witnesses don't believe in hell, whereas most Christians do appear to believe in some kind of hell of eternal suffering.
Do you believe that if I don't worship Jesus I will go to hell, or that I just won't go to heaven?
"I think it is perfectly justifiable for any Christian to struggle through this."
SIWL
And if you have read and understood my comments today and previously, you know or should know that I am in total agreement with you on this.
Goblinbee!!! Have a wonderful and safe trip. I think all beaches have electrical plugs now, lol so you can bring your laptop with you.
No. Just go and enjoy. God bless you and your family. I will miss you much. :) peace
Hello Coonhound. I hope you had a good day. And I hope you have some optimism to bring to the blog this evening. lol
I am having a migraine right now. Samantha has forbid me a pity party already,lol. She warns that things will only get worse if I do not stay strong, I guess. SIWL :)
I hope nobody got offended by my comments, as I am trying to make light of everything tonight, to avoid more wrinkles. :)
Wow. I can see how people get sucked into this, so after this I am done.
Nag wrote:
"Do you believe that if I don't worship Jesus I will go to hell, or that I just won't go to heaven?"
Defining your understanding for the term "worship" would be easier to address. My understanding is that worship means to be thankful for the world and stars and all of creation to the God that created and gave it to us. I worship God, as he request through Jesus, who is part of God, who God sent to save us and clarify his word to us. The word we had until then was many many many years old, written in a language difficult to understand to those living in the later days. They spoke differently.
So, my belief in God, through Jesus, is that I must obey his commandments and instruction. It is not my place to judge you, your sins, or anything about your choices as it relates to "going to Heaven or Hell". He instructs us not to make those decisions or accusations, but that it is His and his alone. He instructs us to share His word with others. You have that word, it is yours to do as you wish with it.
Oh Denise.... I did not. I understand the pity party LOL. I just said don't stay to long at the party. LOL
Hi Coonhound.
"Nagarjuna, if we all claimed that God does not exist, but we still wanted to see the Garridos executed. Where would your argument be then? Just curious."
SIWL
Denise, I would still be arguing that people who commit these kinds of crimes do so because they can't help it at the time, and that they should, therefore, be regarded and treated with the same compassion that we would regard and treat any blamelessly sick person who endangers others, even if we decide that their condition is so bad and so dangerous that we have to end their lives.
"And for someone that has broken the numero uno Commandment, you sure seem to use God to your advantage alot. lol Just seems a bit comical to me that you use Him even though you do not have enough proof that He exists, so you turned your back, until it is to your benefit."
It's true that I don't believe in the God of the Bible. But if others claim to but they don't act the way they're faith teaches, I see nothing "comical" in my pointing out the inconsistency. Not in order to bash Christians for not living up to their faith, but to simply show them their inconsistency. Having said that, you and Samantha seem to think that the inconsistency that I allege exists between Christianity and hating criminals is the crux of my argument against hating criminals and for feeling compassion for them. But it's NOT the crux of my argument, but a mere sideline.
SIWL
Denise, you said something in a comment I addressed previously about my "turning my back" on God. I think this is a misrepresentation. Why? Because how can I "turn my back" on something that honestly doesn't seem to me to even exist?
Samantha, I hope that when you said you are finished, you meant only with the Nagarjuna conversations. And not with the entire blog. I, for one, and believe many others here, will miss you. And besides that, we need you here. :) peace
Ok, guys, I have been officially allotted a wee bit of pity party time. And you are all invited!! lol
Thanks Denise. I did mean the conversing with Nag. I said what was required of me to say.
It is hard to say when the economy is so tough right now Denise, but, I always felt, when one door closes another opens. Maybe, with the experience you have gained as a sales representative, and if you do not like the position or pay of the new assignment, you can use the experience you have as a sales rep to apply for other positions, at other places for better pay than what you were getting.
One thing people usually don't realize, is that, most employers start you at a lower pay, and do not raise you significant enough to compare to the average rate at a later date. So, if you worked for them for five years, you may have been getting paid less than someone in the same position just hired. The best way to get fair pay sometimes is to change jobs after gaining experience.
ANSWER: FREEDOM OF CHOICE - Satan or God through Jesus. God offers eternity of peace and beauty. Satan offers pedophiles, murder, pain, etc. MAKE YOUR CHOICE
SIWL
Samantha, I'm afraid I don't understand how your words quoted above answer my question of why God allows Satan and his demons to use their superiorly supernatural powers to seduce humans to "the dark side."
You say it's God giving us "freedom of choice." But it's a "freedom" compromised by some pretty serious factors, not the least of which are that Satan and his demons are said to be cleverer and more powerful than we are and, hence, have a big advantage over us, AND we're asked to chose between two beings (God and Satan) and posthumous realities (heaven and hell) of which many of us have very good reasons for doubting so much that telling us we must choose between one or the other is like telling us that we must choose between Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairy and and love and serve one or the other with all our heart, soul, and strength for the rest of our lives.
In other words, there's no real "freedom" to choose what you lack good reason to believe in.
"Since 10:05, I have written of several instance you have twisted words. Why are you asking now? Why do you not answer those points instead of acting as if this request to "tell me where I have "twisted" your or anyone else's words"?"
SIWL
And which of those allegations of nefarious as opposed to inadvertent "twisting" have I not already addressed satisfactorily or at all?
Example(s) please.
Well, Nagarjuna, I think maybe you pictured me, in the beginning, as a woman in a long skirt with her hair pulled up into a bun? I do not know. All I know is that I do love God with all of my heart. And my love and faith for God, keeps me going each and every day. And I am thankful that I have finally overcome my shame of being able to be a Jesus Freak. It feels great.
I never claim to be a perfect Christian. Far from it, as a matter of fact. I wish I could be a better Christian than I am. But I do feel that I cannot be a better person than I am right now.
I guess when I say that you turned your back on the Lord. I probably got that from the fact that if I personally rejected Him, I would consider it turning my back on Him. Also, I think I said it because you said you were once a Christian. So, to me, the fact that you once believed in God, but now do not, you were basically turning your back on Him. Get it?
But if you do not believe He doesnt exist, then you cannot feel that you are turning your back on anything. I do believe in God, so for me, you have turned your back on God.
"Again, you distort the meaning of the words of the bible."
SIWL
"Again"? How have I done this? Where have I done this?
Man, this guy doesn't read very well. I am going to take a break, go work out for a while until there is something else, with someone else to discuss something of significance with.
I take my leave. Goodbye all.
Darn it, I have never had a laptop.
But the bathrooms at the beach we're going to (Carlsbad) do have outlets, and have for as far back as I can remember.
For homework, I will bring up the topic of free will vs. determinism with my Mormon mother and sister while there. I'm afraid it will be a very short conversation.
Denise, did all go well with selling the camaro?
"Was I talking to you in my statement here Nag, or was I talking to Denise? I am sure I addressed that to Denise, if you would just take a look."
SIWL
Is there some law that forbids me commenting on something you say to someone else here, especially if it seems as though it could be implying that I said something to
Denise that I never said? Did you not assure her that it's okay for a Christian to support Garrido's execution because you thought that I said otherwise to her and that she might feel unsure or distressed by this?
Oh Samantha, I know perfectly well what you mean about the lower pay by staying at one job for a long time. When I started my job at the Secretary of State's office in Sacramento, the starting rate was at, I believe, something like $1100 per month. (This was in the 80's) There was a lady that had worked there for 10 years. And when she started, in the 70's, the cost of living starting pay was much less. By the time she worked and received her raises throughout the ten years, she had worked her way up to the same rate of pay that we had started out with. She was so angry. I felt bad and thought she hated me for it. But now, I understand.
Today I thought I might lose my job. I told Goblinbee a few days ago in an email that if I lost my job, it would be somewhat of a blessing. My job was not a sales job, so much, as the services were paid 100% by medicaid. But I had a quota, and many circumstances made it impossible for me to reach that quota. It was very stressful for me. My bosses were very understanding of it. But I felt like a failure, and I want to be the best of what I do, not less than expected of me.
Also, I have learned from experience, that when I lose a job, and I think it is going to be devastating, something better eventually comes along. Somehow I make it through rough times, even if I have to lose some things in the process. Things are just things. My children and family are safe and healthy so far. So I need not worry. Some people say theres always welfare, but I say, I HAVE JESUS!
"No, you just make the suggestion that we say "hatefully slaughter".
Just for the hell of it right.
I think not."
SIWL
Samantha, I made no suggestion that you "said" "hatefully slaughtered." I suggested that I perceived you to see nothing wrong with this, and I amply explained why I had this perception. I also admitted that it could be a misperception.
I have "twisted" nothing here with nefarious intent.
I have to choose Santa Claus. I need my teeth. If I chose the tooth fairy, it would only be so I could put money under my pillow and hope she will leave me some teeth. HAHA! Sorry, again, for my silliness. :) peace (I have my own teeth by the way)
Santa Rules!! The tooth fairy robs. And...she always forgets. Sometimes a kid has to wait FOR DAYS to get paid. uff!
"Not until you acknowledge my full statement here, not just a partial segment of my statement. (as well as all my others.)"
SIWL
Which "full statement(s)" do you want me to acknowledge? There has been a blizzard of comments here over the past few hours, and it seems to me that you have accused me of so many deliberate distortions and other misdeeds that I've lost track of them.
Could you give me an example of something that you think is important that I have not yet addressed?
Nagarjuna:" not the least of which are that Satan and his demons are said to be cleverer and more powerful than we are and, hence, have a big advantage over us,"
While it is truth that Satan is far more powerful than we are, he does NOT have the advantage over us.
We have the biggest advantage when we have Jesus. Satan cannot touch us, as long as we have Jesus.
"So, to me, the fact that you once believed in God, but now do not, you were basically turning your back on Him. Get it?"
SIWL
Yes, I get it, Denise. :-) I stopped believing in the Christian God when I was a kid, because this God, as understood by my Nazarene church and by mainstream Christian churches in general no longer seemed plausible to me. And the older I've gotten and the more I've reflected on Christian teachings and learned of other religions along with philosophy, science, and other disciplines, and the more I've simply experienced of life, the less plausible the Christian God seems.
"But if you do not believe He doesnt exist, then you cannot feel that you are turning your back on anything."
I'm glad you understand this, Denise.
"I do believe in God, so for me, you have turned your back on God."
At least, I thought you understood it. :-) I think it's more accurate to say not that I've turned my back on the God in which you believe, but that I simply don't believe in that God. I'm not claiming that he doesn't exist, just that I'm not aware of any compelling reason to believe in him.
Coonhound, this is what happened, and I do not understand it. About a month ago, a friend of mine had given me $1000.00 down on the Camaro. He said he would give me 1500 more in 2 weeks, then pay the rest later. When the 2 weeks arrived, he said he was giving me 1000 that weekend, then 500 more the next weekend. I told him that he plays too many games, and I would rather just sell the car for the full amount that I am asking, get it all in full from someone else, then return his $1000 to him and be finished with him.
Well, I never sold the car, never even really tried for the next couple of weeks after that. And he came this weekend, and said he had the money, but it was in checks that he couldnt cash. I know him very well, so I told him I will take the checks, and whatever cash for the leftover amount. He told me to ride with him to get a trailer or drive the car to his house for him. I told him No, on both requests. He said he would go get the trailer and return. He never did return. lol
He works in a different state, and he had to be back there that day, it takes 9 hours to get to his place of employment. I do not know why he didnt follow through, but I have his money. lol He is strange. He will not answer my calls or return them either.
"We have the biggest advantage when we have Jesus. Satan cannot touch us, as long as we have Jesus."
SIWL
What if Satan "touches" us BEFORE we have Jesus to keep him away?
"Man, this guy doesn't read very well. "
SIWL
Samantha, be fair now. :-) You made the comment that I distorted the words of the Bible, but you didn't quote or provide any indication in your comment of what or where this distortion was.
I have just been informed with all seriousness, that if my son has to call the police because his puffles die on Club Penguin, it will be my fault, and he will tell on me!!! I better go now for the good of an entire penguin and puffle community.
Have a great night everyone. God bless each and every one of you. Take care and stay safe :)
Nagarjuna, if there is no God. Where is the harm in believing? Especially, just in case. peace
Denise, have you considered listing it on EBay?
I don't use Ebay, but my husband does. We bought a F250 from TX over 5 yrs ago. And my husband buys whatever we need for our vehicles off of ebay, too.
(LOL, the coyotes are howling tonight, sounds like a busy night for our local wild life around here. Its kinda cool to hear the the coyotes hootin n hollerin!)
Goodnight Denise, Coonhound, Goblinbee, Samantha, and everyone else. I have to eat and get ready for my bowling league.
Take care, everyone.
LOL. Samantha, I am sorry I am not laughing at you, but hopefully with you, by the time you are done with your work-out. It seems you fell into the same trap as everyone else. You answer his complete post and in complete detail, and he picks one tiny little parts of it, paying no attention to the rest of your post or meaning of that little part he responds to. Notice how he doesn't answer any of your questions, but then asks his same questions over again, after you have spilled your guts in complete detail? "Please tell me what you are referring to" as if you didn't already tell him the answer to his question.
A very convenient response so nothing ever has to be addressed.
I wish we (YouAreSuchAFreak and I) could have been here Sunday and earlier today, but time has been limited. We have volunteered to do some shopping and collecting funds for the traumatic flooding in Manilla, Philippines. Our friend Teresa is over there on vacation so we have been working with them with what is needed and can't be purchased there instead of hanging out so much. But we will be around tonight and tomorrow if you come back. We will be looking for you.
Good night Nagarjuna. Good luck on your game. God bless you. stay safe.
Coonhound,
I know nothing about Ebay, but that people are looking for great deals there. I am not trying to give my Camaro away. lol
Anyhow, I think I can easily sell it if I put it on the corner. I just havent, because I was trying to save it for this man. For one thing, then I wouldnt have to give him his money back. And another thing, he was going to pay me more than the car is probably worth. lol I will probably have to lower the price when I sell it. You know how that goes.
My best friend buys things off of Ebay. But mostly clothes. Anyhow, I am sure I can sell it, but now with my new job position, I probably will not need my new G6 anymore, and can get rid of it and its payments instead. The camaro is paid for, the G6 isnt. I needed it to drive 5 counties for my job. I will not do that with my new position.
The coyotes sound great. We listen to sirens hootin n hollerin. We do have some foxes in the fields around here, though. And I never seen a real possum until I moved here. And there was one living in my dryer for 2 weeks. I seen it in my kitchen one night, and I called the police. They tried to get it out of the dryer, but couldnt. So we took the dryer outside for 3 days. I brought it back in thinking the possum was gone, but it was in my kitchen a week later. I had never seen lightning bugs before moving here either. They are amazing.
I have been thinking about what annoys me about Nagarjuna. It has been bothering me that I agree with him on so much, yet we still continue to disagree on so many things.
And what I came to think about is that what Nagarjuna wants us all to do is to really think. ALOT. He wants us to give deeper and deeper thought to his questions, and to our questions, and our ideas, and our thoughts. I do not think that he wants us to do that so everyone will just agree with him. I think he would be proud of any one of us that thought about something so hard, that we popped up with such a bright idea, that he would see the light and be able to understand better some ideas of his own.
I thought about this, because so many times when he is asking over and over again, WHY WHY WHY, THINK THINK THINK. I understand what it is that he is asking of me and of us. But,,,I am just too lazy to do all of that thinking and soul searching. Also, I do not have the time for that.
I would love to be in an actual classroom with Nagarjuna. A 2 hour class, that way I would have set 2 hours aside for the sole purpose of thinking and thinking. No kids, no phones ringing, no other responsibilities. And I think that I would be able to concentrate enough to learn very much from Our Nag. Regardless if I agreed with him or not. I believe I would learn much, even I could learn more about myself.
But as he said earlier, the govt keeps our lives so busy, I do not have the time or energy to spend nitpicking away at the why's and how's.
Also, it doesnt feel good when someone tells you that what you feel is not good enough because you havent given enough thought into why you feel that way. But with Nagarjuna, there would never be an end to asking yourself why.
Why do you think rapists rape? Because they are sick. Why are they sick? Because they were abused. Why were they abused? Because their abusers were sick. Why were there abusers sick? Because they were abused. Why were their etc. etc. etc. into infinity.
What is that saying? Something like for every reaction there is a cause? I do not remember the saying, I wish my boys were awake now to help me. lol Infinite answers. That is just far too much thinking.
Hi TheBoogieManHater (Boogie). Thanks. I am LOL now. I am not sure why I have spent time in here the last few days, except for those types of comments damning those that are so obviously stunned, hurt and lost with the actions of Garrido. I guess I just see such horrible things to often that when I see how others react, I kind of place it back into the perspective that used to be for me.
I know it is senseless to try to make sense to someone so closed as Nag, but, I did it more or less for everyone else who reads his condemnation of them and their feelings. A Christian should never question their faith due to comments of Nags because they feel the way they do about this entire situation.
Hi Samantha:
Glad you came back, and totally understand.
Denise and Samantha, I totally understand how you feel about Nag Denise. That he is only trying to get people to show compassion and love rather than spiteful angry thoughts for Garrido. I just don't agree that it is appropriate to call others out on the carpet expecting that they should or that they are even obligated to do so.
I agree with most of everything Samantha said, and I find it terribly unsettling that someone can say on one hand we should love them and give compassion to them, and then give them the death sentence if we want. Obviously, we want him and his kind away from us. I do not think is possible to give this man or his wife love and compassion after what they did.
If Nag wants to pretend he is a bigger man for being able to do this, then let him feel he is, but to continue responding to his nonsense, is absurd when he doesn't respond to you, as he should. It's a damn joke to him.
Denise, I do not think he does this so we will just think about how we feel. I find his attitude negligent with an attempt to control how others feel. Otherwise he would earnestly respond.
LOL, this is what I was pondering. But there is something else to. I had it at the tip of my tongue when I was working out, but cannot think right now.
Anyway, I'll think about it and maybe come back and post it tomorrow. For right now, I just don't even want to think about that guy anymore.
Denise, people don't abuse because they are sick. They abuse because they chose to do so, and sometimes because abuse is how they learned to handle situtations as they grew from childhood. We all have a choice to change our ways when we know they are wrong.
Agreed.
I think I am going to take a shower and curl up on the couch now. It was nice ending my conversation in here this way. Take Care.
Real quick Samantha. I said earlier we would be here tomorrow. We won't be here until tomorrow evening. Have to work tomorrow. Bye Samantha
okay. I'll try to drop in tomorrow night. ciao
okay. I'll try to drop in tomorrow night. ciao
Denise, you are so often a breath of fresh air. I know I've said it before, but you just DO have a way of clearing the cobwebs away.
I do interpret Nagarjuna slightly differently than you do. I don't think the questions WOULD go on forever. I think Nagarjuna has a particular answer in mind. From a deterministic point of view, the answer to why something happened is that it couldn't have happened any other way. Yes, there can be many factors leading up to an event, but all of them came together in that precise moment to bring about that particular action. You could decide you wanted to explore what the various factors WERE for a particular event, but that wouldn't change that it couldn't have happened any other way. Each moment begets every other moment. In the same way that the past couldn't have happened differently than it did, so too the present.
This is my interpretation only. It is what I have absorbed from Nagarjuna's questions and explanations. But I don't know how closely it actually approximates his philosophy. I've been wrong before!
I think it's an interesting philosphy; I've been spending quite a bit of time looking at life through this lens the past few weeks. It follows its own logic; it is a plausible explanation of the way things work. But, as is the way with most things, it is not provable or disprovable. But, who knows? Maybe the first person who thought of it did strike gold!
The way that I see Nagarjuna applying a deterministic philosphy to the Garrido case is that, yes, many factors came together to cause Garrido's individual actions, but Garrido did not CAUSE those factors. Garrido is a product of his own unique nature, and of how that nature was affected by his own unique environment. In any given moment, all of his actions were based on the unique (and tragic) blend of nature and nurture that he brought to that moment.
And it is the same for all of us. We bring our exact self to each moment, we have an experience, our exact self changes, we bring our new exact self to the next moment. On and on like a river that never stops.
Goblinbee,
Please pass that p*e*a*c*e pipe over here!
The question is, what is being smoked in that peace pipe?
What? Nature made him do it? Other factors were the cause? Garrido did not cause this? It could not have happened any other way? Garrido did not have a choice to kidnap and keep this girl for sexual purposes for 18 years, it was just in the cards? What are you smoking in that peace pipe?
What a complete moronic way to look at life. No charge, it was just meant to be.
lol Coonhound. That was great! I loved that, pass the peace pipe. Excellent. :)
Goblinbee, you are so extremely intelligent. Explore. That is an excellent word.
My son is sick again today. The school will not let him in. I think I will actually try to think of a perfect situation that I can explore the Why's of it all day. It will not be the Garridos, as I do not know them. I want to try to EXPLORE all of the Why's for something that I do that is bad. Maybe I will try to figure out, Why I yell at my kids so much. Well, that one is easy. Im stressed, It is in my nature, they are boys and they are brothers, and I do not pay enough attention to them. But why am I stressed? Why do I not pay enough attention to them? Oh my gosh. So many Whys and Becauses.
I hope that if I present all of the answers that I dig up from such deep thought, Nagarjuna is going to offer the solution. lol It will seem kind of useless for me to do so much EXPLORING just to decide that I am justified to have compassion and empathy for myself and my sons. Or not.
Realizing I do not have anything in common (nor wish to) with those that hang out in this room (with the exception of a few Christians), I have decided this is not a place I would hang out, so, I will take leave. But, before I do, I will write a letter to Phillip Garrido and another to Nancy Garrido and I will copy and post them here as my last words, and close the cell door.
I do agree with Dr Webb in this sense that I too feel that the judge in this case sentences PG and NG to the fullest degree... It seems to me that he has already had enough sympathy from law enforcement over the years as to why he was ALLOWED to keep harming people because of the sympathy he was given and faith that he would not do it again.. Seems to me he was a master manipulator shocking when almost every pedophile IS A manipulator!!!!
Samantha,
Bummer I thought your thoughts and feelings were great and added things to this discussion... I feel that it is good for people to interject their opinions and talk about issues of this nature... I am sorry that you feel this is not somewhere you'd hang out and that you do not want to frequent this blog any further...Your presence will be missed.. I liked reading your comments.. Just thought id let you know that.. Take care... and I was going to respond to the comment you wrote to me before all the debate on Jesus... I would like to respond to you but if you will not be here to read it then I am hesitate on putting in that energy.. lol.. :)
I am glad you are aware of things in the world Samantha stay safe and God Bless you.
A special hello to you too goblinbee I have missed you...
Thanks BrendaStar. I am still here, still writing my letters, only on the first to Garrido. I will be sending these letters.
I will read what you have to respond to my earlier post to you. I just do not see a point to discussing sympathy and compassion for these two people. They have not asked for it, they have not acknowledged it. Yes, P. Garrido admitted it, but that was only due to his stupidity and not realizing he was sealing his own fate in doing so. He would never have admitted it, if he wasn't so daft. Obviously, his plea of not guilty says so. Just in case he was reading the bible, I thought I would give him his chance at salvation, and a few words of advice to be given that salvation, so that is what I am doing.
Samantha,
I understand how you feel.. It has frustrated many about the compassion.. it has been an ongoing debate for quite some time now..
I have to go to work today for a little bit after I take my daughter to school but was very intent on responding to your comment to me from yesterday so I will do so this afternoon...I am glad you will read it and maybe if you feel like it you can respond to me.. :)
I look forward to reading your letters to the PG and NG... I am sure they will be very good... I hope you have a good day and I will talk to you later hopefully :)
I will also say I do feel that when you feel you are hitting a brick wall the smartest thing to do is to walk away... at least from that wall.. :)
Samantha,
I am also sad to see you go. I wanted to say that we do not only speak about compassion for criminals here. Since this has been turned more into a chatroom, I think we have discussed so many different important issues. I love to read the comments here. There are so many interesting and caring people that comment here.
I wish you the best. Stay safe, take care, and May God bless you always. We are going to miss your input. You are like a ray of light here, speaking so clearly and with such knowledge. Good luck in all you do, and peace.
"Please pass that p*e*a*c*e pipe over here!"
Ha!
Good morning everyone!
Good morning, Goblinbee. When will you be leaving for the beach?
Hi Denise. My flight is at 5:45 this evening. I'll spend the first night at my sister's place in San Diego; tomorrow we head to the beach!
We, as a society, are in a huge debt to the poor girl and her two children FOR ALLOWING the criminal justice system (including that parole officer and the parole board itself) to fail her by:
1) First cutting the Garrido creature loose when IT was supposed to stay incarcirated for another 40 years or death, whichever comes first;
2) Not supervising the creature properly after it was cut loose
I am afraid we will never be able to repay this debt.
MadOne, that debt is far bigger than the national deficit.
Goblinbee, are you going to have enough sun? Here in Missouri, the weather is changing and although the sun still shines, it is so chilly here. I miss California's weather. :(
San Diego is so beautiful. You are going to have such a great time. Have fun and do not think about any of us or this blog. lol
SIWL
Hi, Samantha and everyone.
I have some errands to run this afternoon, so I won't be back until later to address some recent comments. But I just want to say now to you, Samantha, that I'm sorry you don't want to have any further discussion with me. I can honestly tell you that I think you're a good person and that I've been trying to have a respectful and substantive discussion with you, and I find it unfortunate that you see it and me the way you appear to.
But I nevertheless thank you for taking the time and trouble yesterday to talk with me at length and to share your understanding of your faith with me to the extent that you did.
I'd like to repeat that our discussion yesterday of Christianity was not, to me, central to how I think we should regard people like the Garridos. And, contrary to what you appear to think, I wasn't "condemning" Christians who hate Garrido and want to see him executed. I was questioning whether Christians should be content to hate such individuals or whether they are enjoined by Jesus' example and the overall teachings of their faith to at least try to feel a measure of compassion for them.
If I don't hear back from you, I want you to know that I wish you all the best, and, in the benedictory words of a famous character from one of the greatest police dramas ("Hill Street Blues") ever on TV, "[Let's] be careful out there."
Samatha, I too will miss you and your thoughts, I very much admired your response to Nagarjuna about Jesus. I thought your words stood with much grace and conviction regarded your faith. I was impressed and it was kinda relieving and comforting to me to have read it. So, I thank you for that.
Be safe.
SIWL
Oh, and Goblinbee, I hope you're able to read this before you leave and to know that I think you've articulated my "determinisim" or, as I prefer to call it, "inevitablism" position more clearly and beautifully than I could ever hope to. Thanks.
Take care, and have loads of fun.
I dreamed about coyotes last night. Actually, there were coyotes, many of them, on the other side of this fence. I was in a tall truck and could see over the top of the fence. There were coyotes everywhere and a huge bear. I was hoping they wouldnt see me. And had to sneak past them. The truck was super slow and I just knew they would spot me.
Thank you very much, Coonhound. lol
Hello Nagarjuna and Coonhound.
I cant wait to read Samanthas letters to the Garridos. I hope your day is going well for both of you.
Goblinbee,
I wanted to wish you a wonderful and safe journey to the west coast!
I've never been, but have been considering it the past year for a vacation destination.
Enjoy!!!!
Hi denise.
Shall we analyze that dream of yours? Lol
Yes, Coonhound, lets explore it, shall we? Now WHY, my dear coonhound, do you suppose I HAD THAT DREAM?? lol
Denise, let me ask u this... Have you recently watched the wizard of oz?
You know..."Lions, and tigers, and bears. Oh No!"
Nope, Coonhound. Pretty sure I have been getting all of my recent influences from this blog somehow. lol
(Giggling)
(Giggling)
"Have fun and do not think about any of us or this blog."
(Denise)
Impossible! I wonder if I will sneak away to my sister's computer tonight...
Thanks to all for the warm wishes and bon voyages.
I do think we'll get a mix of fog, rain, and sun while I'm there. My family has camped for many years at Carlsbad or San Elijo during the summer, but it has gotten next to impossible to reserve a site during the busy season. So the first week of October it is!
I'm bringing books to read, cards to play, and warm sweaters and jackets to bundle up in. But just the sound of the waves crashing, lulling me to sleep each night, will have made the trip worth it.
Nagarjuna, glad I got it right. :) And I think I like the word inevitablism better too.
TheBoogieManHater and youaresuchafreak,
That is so nice of you to try to help those people... right on... I am glad your time away from here has been spent partly there..I really think thats awesome.. thought id tell you both that.
Samantha,
I hear you about society keeping us tuned out to whats important in more ways then on with TV with everything basically video games, with lots of B.S. basically. I for one think the battle is very big also but I can not look away... Now id like to clarify that I am not huge conspiracy person.. It was only when I was presented with the TRUTH of what REALLY happened on 9/11 and I did my own research I could not look away the scientific facts are there and they fully support this... But once i got involved with this 5 years ago I started to realize as you were ever so witty to point out as well that this did not start there that it was something that had been planned for years and years and years.. Now I only believe what I have researched and proven in my mind without a shadow of a doubt that these things are factual.. I fond it so sad that Americans are so tuned out to what is really happening and as well as I hate to say this but NON educated about issues and our government and how our monetary system works, frankly nothing. Have you ever seen that movie Idiocracy?? Well That's where we are heading and we are half way there already... They spew out what these news people say and their ignorance and cover ups of the truth are heinous and you all have to know the reason is that ALL of out TV show are owned by the government and or corp involved with the government. The sad part to me is that people just sit here like they are sheep and are told what they should be buying, wearing, thinking, feeling, acting, our lives are a walking TV tube...
But I too agree that if you have tried and tried over and over again to get someone to see something that is there and they dont want to see it or make excuses not yo see it, well then I have yo quote Jesus on this and dust the feet off my shoes and Keep on walking but ill be here if you ever seek any information when you realize the truth... :) and i dont mean you like (you Samantha) I am talking in general to everyone out else out there. I can tell by a small paragraph that Samantha is educated on this subject to what degree I dont know but she knows what is up.. Thank you for you reply to my passion Samantha it means a lot to me.. I have been habitually ignored on this topic besides (Boogie) and Denise replying.. Also again I hope that you and I can carry on more discussion if youd like to.. I have gotten frustrated here too and walked away, but when I see it going in that direction I start not replying.. and wade it out :)
I interject here and there and of course I think its very witty lol... I end up laughing at myself.. hahaha :) Its been a pleasure Samantha.. I could go on forever with this topic...
oh by the way i have some great news to share for the 911 victims they have presented their case and have gooten over 80,000.00 signatures needed to go to the supreme court for the CITY OF NEW YORK to open up a REAL investigation into 9/11, building 7, and thermite explosives being used thats right people!!! It is being heard by the supreme court today and a decision will be made tomorrow Wednesday... and if you read this and you have NO idea what I am talking about you need to research this...
there are lots of people in this fight right now one group alone if over 7,000.00 members thats just one group .. this is growing and every year there are more people awakened to what really happening in our country...
has anyone ever seen the movie Red Dawn??? Well thats where we are heading... Its an Americans responsibility to ask questions to think and use your brains and be free... Funny so many people claim to be an American and so patriotic yet they are turning their cheek to the very thing that is destroying America as we speak... Id take a long hard look at patriotism..Is lying to the American public all the time very patriotic??? No.
Samantha you rule.. thank you for watching and protecting our society... and being aware :)
SIWL
"You answer his complete post and in complete detail, and he picks one tiny little parts of it, paying no attention to the rest of your post or meaning of that little part he responds to."
My dear Boogieman, you've accused me of this several times. But when I ask you to provide examples, you don't give me any. I don't believe that I'm doing what you say, but if I am, I'd like to know it so that I can stop doing it. So, once again, I ask you to provide one or more specific examples of where I've done what you say. Please cite one of Samantha's posts (date and time) and my response that illustrates your criticism of my conduct. Thanks in advance.
"Notice how he doesn't answer any of your questions, but then asks his same questions over again, after you have spilled your guts in complete detail? "Please tell me what you are referring to" as if you didn't already tell him the answer to his question."
Specific example(s) please?
I recall one instance where Samantha said that I "distorted" the words of the Bible. She didn't say where or how I did this. I asked her to tell me. She refused to. Is THIS what you're referring to? if you are, it seems to me like you have an awfully weak case. If you have an example that can pass muster, could you present it?
SIWL
"And what I came to think about is that what Nagarjuna wants us all to do is to really think. ALOT...I do not think that he wants us to do that so everyone will just agree with him. I think he would be proud of any one of us that thought about something so hard, that we popped up with such a bright idea, that he would see the light and be able to understand better some ideas of his own."
Exactly, Denise! Certainly I have a perspective that I've been trying to make as clear and persuasive as I can. But, more importantly, I've been trying to encourage everyone to think more deeply about what THEY believe and why they believe it. I guess you could call me an extremely inferior version of Socrates trying to dialogue with people in the public square about deeper issues. Of course, Socrates ended up being forced to drink hemlock for his efforts. I hope a similar fate doesn't befall me for mine. :-)
"But with Nagarjuna, there would never be an end to asking yourself why."
I don't think that's true, Denise. When you've asked yourself "Why?" enough to grasp the essential point that there's always a why or blameless cause for people committing crimes, and your emotions have fallen in line with this insight, you may not need to keep asking why. You've got the point.
I am sorry for the typos I got a little excited i usually proof read but nope didnt this time....
THE REVOLUTION IS NOW..
SIWL
"I am not sure why I have spent time in here the last few days, except for those types of comments damning those that are so obviously stunned, hurt and lost with the actions of Garrido."
My dear Samantha, I'm not "damning" anyone, Christians or otherwise, for expressing their outrage against Garrido. But I have questioned the way some have done it and defended it. There's a big difference between criticizing THE BEHAVIOR and "damning" the person who commits it.
"I know it is senseless to try to make sense to someone so closed as Nag, but, I did it more or less for everyone else who reads his condemnation of them and their feelings."
You know what they say about opinions. They're like a certain part of our anatomy. Everybody has one. :-) So, naturally, when we come to a place like this, we tend to champion our own opinion and resist those that differ from our own. I think most or all of us have done that, including you and I. But when you talk about me being "closed," I don't understand what you mean. I have been willing to engage everyone here in substantive, thoughtful discussion of our differing views and to reflect upon what you and others share with me. You, on the other hand, say that you don't care to continue discussion with anyone here except your fellow Christians, because no one else has anything to say that you care to hear and consider. With all due respect, THAT sounds like an ostensive definition of "closed."
"A Christian should never question their faith due to comments of Nags because they feel the way they do about this entire situation."
I disagree. I believe that anyone who carefully reads scripture and studies Christian teachings about the life and spirit of Jesus with an open, rather than "closed" mind and heart, can hardly disagree with what I've been posting about trying to discard hatred and feel compassion for the Garridos. And I have a very difficult time believing that you, in your heart of hearts, disagree with me on this. Do you REALLY think Jesus would hate the Garridos? Do you REALLY think he would want YOU to hate the Garridos or anyone else? Do you REALLY think he would want you not to ask him to help you try to overcome your hatred and replace it with compassion if not love? If you answer in the negative to any of these questions, I think you do a disservice to yourself and to your faith.
SIWL
"I just don't agree that it is appropriate to call others out on the carpet expecting that they should or that they are even obligated to do so."
So, what I hear you saying, Boogieman, is that you don't think it's "appropriate" for someone to speak THE TRUTH here about your Christian faith or to question feelings about the Garridos that do not seem warranted by the facts.
"I find it terribly unsettling that someone can say on one hand we should love them and give compassion to them, and then give them the death sentence if we want."
I find it "unsettling" too, Boogieman. Compassionate execution seems almost oxymoronic. But not completely so. I believe that one can see the Garridos also as victims of their mental malfunction and regard them with the appropriate compassion, and, yet, still believe that executing them for their crimes as humanely as possible can serve useful purposes that justify their executions.
"If Nag wants to pretend he is a bigger man for being able to do this, then let him feel he is, but to continue responding to his nonsense, is absurd when he doesn't respond to you, as he should. It's a damn joke to him."
I don't think myself "bigger" or "better" than any of the rest of you. And if you call what I've been saying here about the appropriate way to try to feel and act toward the Garridos "nonsense," then I respectfully suggest that you are calling the fundamental teachings and spirit of your Christian faith "nonsense" as well.
" I find his attitude negligent with an attempt to control how others feel. Otherwise he would earnestly respond."
To what have I not "earnestly" responded? I doubt that anyone here has been more meticulous and earnest in his responses to others here than I have.
"Denise, people don't abuse because they are sick. They abuse because they chose to do so,"
How is this different than saying "the wind doesn't blow because of barometric pressure gradients. It just blows because it blows."? In other words, my dear friend, doesn't something CAUSE the wind to blow and a person to choose to commit a terrible crime.
"We all have a choice to change our ways when we know they are wrong."
And when we choose not to change our ways, doesn't something CAUSE this choice?
SIWL
"But, as is the way with most things, it is not provable or disprovable."
Goblinbee, as I think I said before, it may not be possible to conclusively prove my thesis, just as it's all but impossible to prove anything about the empirical world absolutely. But if we discover more and more plausible causal explanations for phenomena such as choices, wouldn't that certainly make my thesis appear more and more plausible?
Nagarjuna,
With ALL due respect that is your version of THE TRUTH!!!
as well is that is their version of the TRUTH...
let bygones be bygones.. drop it..
I could better relate with nag's reasoning if PG/NG failed to make productive choices in others aspects of their lives.
Truth is, their choices served to fulfill what they wanted to do and continue doing.
Intent...there.
Lying when necessary to conceal...there.
Manipulation...there.
Knowledge of their crimes...there.
Ability/means to otherwise live...there.
Many, many people have a few screws loose, but still don't justify stealing, raping, and keeping another human being.
I'll be asked "why?".
Bc many, many choices presented themselves to this man and he decided on choosing the "many malicious means" that would serve solely himself without regard to human descency.
Why would he purpose himself to make such choices...lacking egard to human descency when he saw fit to do so?
Bc some people put themselves first, above the law and the well-being of other humans, every nano-second of the day. Making a "twisted" or illegal or hateful or malign choice does not logically conclude one to believe that the person could not do any differently due to "causation."
Its completely not logical to juggle determinism and free-will based on what you deem to be most plausible or realistic or possible.
Denise ate the cake and got fat.
Coonhound ate the cake and didn't.
Freak didn't eat the cake and still got fat!
Goblinbee didn't eat the cake and didn't get fat.
And on and on like a raging river it goes...
As a human being I will do my best to objectively understand those that do what is wrong and criminal.
But to ENABLE a situation with pity and compassion?
At this point, PG and NG need the Lord's compassion.
Forgiveness? Its not my place to forgive or not forgive PG or NG. The people that they wronged and God can only do that...
Does PG have a dilusional disorder? Possibly and one can drive themselves there to that point. But the events that drove him there appear to be self-inflicted and self-motivated to me.
If his doctors say he's "SICK" I'm sure tax payer dollars will be hard at work to get him fit for trial.
Have pity or compassion for him if he ends up in general population? So be it. Things like that happen, and garrido knows all about that. It sounds sick to me, but evidently that's how it goes when you are a molester of children and get sent to jail.
There is no Utopia here and now. Doesn't matter if you believe in free-will or determinism.
Utopia is an ideal, not reality.
BrendaStar, I was thinking the exact same that you said, yesterday while driving around on my job. I have asked several people of various statures about Obama's Health Reform. And every one of them said they didnt know much about it. Actually, nobody really knew. Nagarjuna may have known, but he directed me to a link with information on it. I was lazy and did not go to the link, because I already have a constant headache. But either nobody knows what is going on in our country, or it is too complicated for anyone to want to explain.
Red Dawn is one of my favorite movies. I was surprised that not many people had seen it. But then, I am old.
I think that everyone just feels so hopeless, and like Nag said, the govt keeps us all far too busy and financially strapped to venture into fighting the government.
SIWL
"What? Nature made him do it? Other factors were the cause? Garrido did not cause this?"
Samantha, how can you ultimately separate Garrido from "nature"? How can you say that the buck stopped with Garrido and that something didn't CAUSE him to do what he did?
"It could not have happened any other way?"
How could he have acted other than how we was CAUSED to act? Isn't that a little like saying that when you bring gasoline and a flame together, they don't have to ignite?
"Garrido did not have a choice to kidnap and keep this girl for sexual purposes for 18 years, it was just in the cards?"
He had a choice, but wasn't the choice he made CAUSED by conditions he didn't cause?
Samantha, you said something about how "moronic" my view is. Well, if that's true, there are probably many more "moronic" determinists or inevitablists in the world than you even begin to realize.
And, in fact, I'd go so far as to say that my perspective accords with science. For doesn't science, whether physical or psychological, rest on the bedrock assumption that all phenomena, including falling rain and human choices, have causes that extend far beyond the isolated phenomena themselves? There may be some question about this with regard to quantum phenomena, such as radioactive decay, in the microcosmos, but little or no question about it at the level of human choices and behavior in the macrocosmos.
Denise,
I agree with you but then that is where the government wants us to be is too busy and desensitized to care.. we have to break that mold and care... I too am very busy but I find the time.. its like saying "im over weight" but " I have no time to work out!" thats a cop out too you have no time to take care for your health??? its like make the time for the things that are important and start to evaluate the things you do that are of NO importance.. ya know.
Nagarjuna,,
I stand by my previous statement but I do have to say that science has NOT proven God to be false thats why this will always be a mystery because it is not a fact...Its only a theory...
Coonhound said:
"I'll be asked "why?"."
I laughed at this. Funny. True, and funny. That was cute.
SIWL
"With ALL due respect that is your version of THE TRUTH!!!"
But how have I not presented my "version" more convincingly than anyone else has presented a different version?
"as well is that is their version of the TRUTH..."
Are you saying that no version is better presented or, ultimately, truer than any other?
let bygones be bygones.. drop it.."
"Bygones"? Brenda, my dear, I'm not lashing out in vindictive anger to anyone. I'm just respectfully responding to the comments addressing my points and conduct here.
Coonhound:"Bc some people put themselves first, above the law and the well-being of other humans, every nano-second of the day. Making a "twisted" or illegal or hateful or malign choice does not logically conclude one to believe that the person could not do any differently due to "causation."
This makes me think about people who step on others illegally and ruthlessly to become rich. Do they also have a sickness? Greed cannot be classified as a legitimate illness.
Denise,
I dont think they have a sickness they have given up their spirit and decided a long time ago that wealth was not enough that power is what is... Once you have enough wealth in the world in so much abundance it doesnt matter anymore.. then what can please you then..... power and control. Its the same mentality as a pedophile... just a different goal...
SIWL
"I do have to say that science has NOT proven God to be false thats why this will always be a mystery because it is not a fact...Its only a theory..."
Brenda, my comment about science pertained not to the existence of the Christian God but to the legitimacy of my "deterministic" perspective.
However, I must parenthetically say that if my perspective is true, it seems less likely that certain key Christian teachings are. And this, in turn, would cast the whole Christian faith in serious doubt.
Nagarjuna,
Id say all parties involved not just you my dear :) stated their side appropriately and very passionate and truthful to their knowledge and belief.... Both sides fought for what they believed in and pat yourself on the back for that.. All im saying is i think your beating a dead horse is that blunt enough?.. thats why i say let bygones be bygones...
Nag:How could he have acted other than how we was CAUSED to act?
I had to get up this morning. I had a choice to sleep or get up. I had to choose to get up. We all have choices we have to make each and every minute of our days.
Nag:"He had a choice, but wasn't the choice he made CAUSED by conditions he didn't cause?"
I actually think he caused these conditions by using drugs, honestly. You have to be in a drug environment for a few weeks, Nag, in order to really see what happens in conversations, actions, etc. You do not get these ideas at the family dinner table.
Anyhow, I really do not see the importance to you, Nagarjuna, how other people consider the Garridos. If they have hatred, as many people have here, I skip over those conversations. I do not understand why you feel it is so important to try to change the way people conduct themselves anyhow, good or bad. SIWL
Brenda, that was the exact comparison I was making.
we are on the same page :)
This is a great documentary called:
(drum beat).........................................
The Obama Deception!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAaQNACwaLw
full length movie link
Nag. You have just wasted what looks like a couple of hours writing to me. Please don't do so on my account. I am done trying to talk to you.
I did read the first part, where in you once again invoke the comments, "show me one place I did that, tell me one place I did that, Specific example(s) please?".
Again, I will say I responded, you cut and paste a section, not the entire thought. You avoid what you cannot address or attack.
If you don't feel you do this, you are kidding yourself. If you want to know where you do this, GO DO YOUR OWN RESEARCH, GO BACK AND REREAD, and the REREAD IT AGAIN until you can SEE. It is there, black and white.
I thank BrendaStar, who you so conveniently ignored and wrote anyway. You have your views, I have mine. Drop it. Otherwise, you may continue to write and waste your time, but I realize there is and never will be value to responding to you.
I will rather spend my time writing my letters, but responding to BrendaStar first. I'm working a response next BrendaStar.
Samantha,
I look forward to your response.. Thank you.
I miss Tara wish she was still around to talk to :(
Samantha I bet you were proud of those women at the campus who ultimately busted Garrido... impressive instinct's. I was.
I think greed is just greed. A greedy person can suffer from some illness. But greed is just greed. The love of money above the Lord and his Word.And above human descency.
But...
Funny how half-truths can be damning.
Some people qoute the bible to read "money is the root of all evil."
But it actually states in full "the love of money is the root of all evil."
SIWL
"Again, I will say I responded, you cut and paste a section, not the entire thought. You avoid what you cannot address or attack."
Samantha, my dear, you "responded" my making the accusation, but not by citing specific instances of where I've done what you accused me of. Certainly, I don't habitually quote entire, long comments of others that I'm addressing. You don't either. Neither does anyone else that I'm aware of. We all quote what we deem to be the main points and respond to those. Your accusation is, as usual, groundless, unless you can cite specific posts or examples that prove otherwise.
If you don't feel you do this, you are kidding yourself. If you want to know where you do this, GO DO YOUR OWN RESEARCH, GO BACK AND REREAD, and the REREAD IT AGAIN until you can SEE. It is there, black and white.
With all due respect, that's ridiculous, Samantha. You say I'm doing something I don't see myself doing, and then you ask ME to find where I'm doing it. :-)No, Samantha, YOU made the accusation. YOU do the decent thing and show me WHERE I've done what you accuse me of so that I can take a good, hard look at it, or wimp out and run away like you appear intent on doing. :-)
BrendaStar, you are one of America's heros. I am not just saying this, it is true. It is one of the most worthy causes to confront the injustices of our government, however, peacefully as possibly can be done. I realize this movement has been very peaceful considering all the heat they are confronted with and steadfastly denied.
Very insightful: Jesus did keep dusting his feet off and did keep on walking, and remained steadfast in his path, and continued to remain there for whoever excepted him while he was here on earth and even after God took him home, through to today he remains here for us.
Jesus also had insight of his future. He knew he was going to be forsaken, and he still walked his path.
I was unaware that the request for investigation was presented to the Supreme Court today. (I expect to decision to take several weeks to come (?)) I am happy that it made it. I truly did not know that the various groups managed to grow to these numbers you report in order to do this. Not that I believe the media so much anymore, or lack there of. I didn't believe they would get there because I had to learn about this by seeking information. Nothing has ever reached me to advise me. With that being said, I did not have faith that this would go anywhere. I sadly and erroneously underestimated that people are doing more than sitting back and letting the government have free reign.
I hope the facts represented are addressed by the Supreme Court, and an investigation is granted. But I still have fears BrendaStar. I do not know the future, except Revelations, and I only have ideas of when these things will take place, but, I do know the government's reaches. Even if the Supreme Court was not thwarted by other government and granted an investigation, who do you think will investigate, and what responses do you think you will hear. The fight will go on for centuries this way.
The cover-ups are plenty in our history. It is going to take huge public involvement to beat them at their game. How will this get accomplished?
"I had to get up this morning. I had a choice to sleep or get up. I had to choose to get up. We all have choices we have to make each and every minute of our days."
(Denise)
I think Nagarjuna is saying that you made the choice you did because of the exact person you were at that exact moment in time.
Brendastar...so true about those women at UCLA!
"Woman's Intuition"
"I think Nagarjuna is saying that you made the choice you did because of the exact person you were at that exact moment in time."
BINGO! :-)
Coonhound, re: quoting the bible to read, the root of all evil is money. This is always funny to me.
While it is true, people will do more for money than love, when the bible was written, there was no such thing as money. They traded. This is just ignorance and lack of knowledge.
The bible was rewritten so many times in words/terms/phrases we can understand. Much of it is taken out of context by readers because of this. Which also includes the fact that, still the last rewrite was written at a far difference from where we are with language today.
SIWL
"Nag. You have just wasted what looks like a couple of hours writing to me."
I don't think it's a "waste of time" to expose the falsehoods and dubious assertions of others, whether they read and respond to what I've exposed or not. If you don't want to read and respond to it, that's on YOU. And the way I see it, you couldn't refute what I've written anyway, so you really ARE taking wisest, if also most cowardly, course. Which, I unfortunately suspect, is PAR for YOUR course.
I guess what I am saying BrendaStar, is that these groups need to find a way to reach out to everyone. Whether by television commercials, e-mails, mail, whatever. More people need to know, and understand how important it is that they get involved.
If one thing is found truthful in this investigation that our government and bankers were involved in 9/11 and for the reasons so many believe are true, the support will go 100 fold.
Definitely agree with you. If some Christians only knew how much has been reworded, resorted, and so on.
On that specific quote I view money to mean anything of earthly value.
My last comment to Samantha wasn't as "lovingkind" as it might have been, but I happen to think it's true.
Yes. I am very proud of and thankful for these women at the university. Doesn't it always take a woman for instinct like this? LOL Uncanny in comparison to what a man picks up on.
Samatha, I was trying to make is that money or earthly things aren't evil, but its the love of such things that can drive one to evil and sin...such as theft and fraud...or greed.
Its all in the path.
Coonhound. You are on the ball :)
I do too, but just wish others had the understanding before they make such negative assumptions on the face of the words.
going fast again, Coonhound my response was in regards to this statement you posted.
On that specific quote I view money to mean anything of earthly value.
September 29, 2009 3:24 PM
Samantha,
Thank you. I do not consider myself a hero but thank you very much! It makes me happy that people like you think the way that you do i think you are a hero too. You are a police officer and you have opened your mind to the bigger picture for that you need to be praised. You do good things for us and people and you are aware. I do consider myself definitely an active activist! Wherever I am and whom ever I talk to I bring this up..I have to I can not stop, and I will not stop...
yes unbenounced to many this has gotten a lot of attention.. Italy released its first documentary about the subject last year and it was played on main TV in Italy
for everyone to see and it was about 9/11 truth and what happened that day and the New World Order... The numbers I speak are true and we are getting bigger... You are correct though to underestimate the fight we have ahead of us would be stupid... It is going to be hard, it is going to take a lot of people, and it is going to take an awakening upon society... I agree it must be peaceful.. we mean no harm that is what we are fighting for is the harm that is being done to us everyday under our noses and what is to come... and its coming fast...The thing is is that these government terrorist and bankers are respected as being Authority for truth and it is quite the opposite. when we speak out they are becoming violent against us.. So what do we do we video tape, and we stay strong, and collected..and man together.. I have not lost my faith in the human race or society as a whole, and I know that people have brains so use them!!! How will this be accomplished? With active people staying involved.. and talking to everyone we can and reaching everyone as possible and recording any government unjust and broadcasting it no matter how you can, do it...We have to keep the word out there especially right now while there are so many people screaming inside for the truth and to be awakened and desire change a real change not this crap change thats being fed to us on TV REAL CHANGE.. we are not idiots people you see the B.S. just start asking questions and researching it!!!! But thats the thing you have to do that one things and start to seek the truth! The truth is a virus...
I will be very involved with the 9/11 issue I will keep you informed if youd like me to. I heard Wednesday tomorrow they will have a decision but yes what kind of investigation will it be... hmmm... well all i can say is its a big step and a start, if they expose the truth then the last 8 years will be unjustified truly world wide for everyone to know and that would throw the public into outrage.. So i know that it will not be that easy and it definitely will not go down like that..But i think we all know that...so I am prepared...
Geez...
Refute:
1. To prove to be false or erroneous;disprove.
2. To deny the accuracy or truth of.
She has refuted.
Samatha, your a breath of fresh air to me.
You might as well say I live in the backwoods. (Ugh)
BrendaStar: A lot of police officers and government employees are knowledgeable and believers in your cause. Don't count their goodwill out, but, do you know how much control the government has? Seriously, City, State, & County and Federal employees, including courthouse employees are not allowed to have any government (such as voting candidates) or public movement bumper stickers on their vehicles. There is a lot of regulation to control what government employees can do and cannot do which may influence any citizen in any way. You have to ask permission when you want to do anything involving public awareness of any political issue. What is not political these days?
SIWL
I wish we could all get along in here really. It is depressing to me. I realize that this may not be possible. But it would be nice if we could. Please do not reply to this comment of mine. peace
Thanks Coonhound. The backwoods is a great place to be when you consider the turmoil all around us out here in the open.
BrendaStar,
how well has the Euro served the europeans since its release in the early 90's; for example, in terms of economic stabilty of participating countries? Or how about Italy...were they better off with the lira compared to the euro?
Just wondering if you knew bc I haven't kept up with all that...
I must go pick up my daughter from her after school program but I will be on later tonight. i wanted to respond to you Samantha but I am out of time..but I am intent on responding. I hope we can chat later on this evening or tomorrow am and I hope you have a good afternoon. I do look forward to talking again.take care and ta ta for now :) Thank you again also. I have thoroughly enjoyed our conversation.
I hope everyone else has a wonderful afternoon as well and I will be on later tonight or in the am...tonight hopefully but one can never be to sure with a child.. :)
What needs to be so every citizen can have a say about it, is let us vote. This the government employees can do too. While the police force is at the rallys, etc., they are there being told what to do, how to handle the crowds, keep it civil, keep the peace. Because they are there, does not mean they do not have their own opinion.... they are just not allowed to give it.
Ta Ta. :)
SIWL
"I could better relate with nag's reasoning if PG/NG failed to make productive choices in others aspects of their lives."
What does that have to do with my reasoning, Coohhound? Where have I ever argued that the same individuals can't be caused to make "productive" as well as criminal choices? How would that even follow from what I HAVE argued?
"Truth is, their choices served to fulfill what they wanted to do and continue doing.
Intent...there."
And nothing caused this "intent"?
"Many, many people have a few screws loose, but still don't justify stealing, raping, and keeping another human being."
If by "justify," you mean saying it's okay to commit these crimes, nobody has argued that. How can you suggest that I'm "justifying" it when I advocate the Garridos' lifetime incarceration or even execution for their crimes? But one can EXPLAIN (rather than justify) their crimes in a way that leads to compassion rather than contempt and hatred.
"Bc many, many choices presented themselves to this man and he decided on choosing the "many malicious means" that would serve solely himself without regard to human descency."
And nothing CAUSED him to do these things?
"Why would he purpose himself to make such choices...lacking egard to human descency when he saw fit to do so?
Bc some people put themselves first, above the law and the well-being of other humans, every nano-second of the day."
Again, nothing CAUSED them to do these things?
"Making a "twisted" or illegal or hateful or malign choice does not logically conclude one to believe that the person could not do any differently due to "causation."
If they AREN'T caused to do these things, why do they do them? Doesn't the very question imply a cause? And if they ARE caused to do these things, how could they have done other than what they were caused to do?
"Its completely not logical to juggle determinism and free-will based on what you deem to be most plausible or realistic or possible."
I agree. Choose one or the other on the basis of what seems to be the most realistic or plausible perspective.
"As a human being I will do my best to objectively understand those that do what is wrong and criminal.
But to ENABLE a situation with pity and compassion?"
So, what I hear you saying, Coonhound, is that even if you were to "objectively" see things the way I do, you wouldn't admit it to anyone or try to act in harmony with your perspective because you'd be afraid that showing compassion to criminals might encourage more criminality.
"At this point, PG and NG need the Lord's compassion."
But not the compassion of someone who loves and tries to follow the example of the Lord as best she can with the Lord's help--i.e., a Christian? :-)
"Forgiveness? Its not my place to forgive or not forgive PG or NG. The people that they wronged and God can only do that..."
Humans can't and aren't supposed to forgive? Christians can't and aren't supposed to forgive?
"But the events that drove him there appear to be self-inflicted and self-motivated to me."
This self-infliction comes out of a causeless vacuum? Motivation comes entirely from a self cut off from all the genetic, biological, psychological, social, and other factors comprising the person?
"There is no Utopia here and now. Doesn't matter if you believe in free-will or determinism."
But if you believe in either, can't you try to make the world as fair and just as possible for everyone?
Yes BrendaStar. Keep us informed.
Samatha,
Re backwoods...True in some aspects, but NOT so in others. Lol
I like this passage, too
"Beware lest any man spoil you through philospohy, and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after christ." Col2:8
This is not pointed towards nag. This passage opening my eyes to some things about myself about 10 yrs ago or so. (Just thought I'd clarify that)
SIWL
"Geez...
Refute:
1. To prove to be false or erroneous;disprove.
2. To deny the accuracy or truth of.
She has refuted."
She has "refuted" WHAT in the first sense? :-)
And denise said...
SIWL
I wish we could all get along in here really. It is depressing to me. I realize that this may not be possible. But it would be nice if we could. Please do not reply to this comment of mine. peace
It's been great, everyone. Thank you for everything. peace and God bless.
Coonhound, You said something I forgot to respond to earlier in the day. Something about admiring my responses. Thank you for that, but I have to admit, they are not just my responses. I sit here and I ask Him to be with me. To help me say what he wants me to say, how I should respond. To be a Christian is to walk with him. Sometimes I stray, but when I refer to Him, I certainly keep in mind that I do not want to blasphemy Him. So, it is Him that really should be admired.
This is what takes me so long to finish my letter to the first, P. Garrido. I know what I want to say, and I know I have read the passages many times, but I cannot find them. I get frustrated, and then I realize. I forgot to ask Him. So I put it down, I reflect and I pray. I am angry about this subject, and He understands that. But He does have a message to the Garridos much more important than mine.
I often wonder if anyone else has written these things to them.
SIWL
""Beware lest any man spoil you through philospohy, "
I suspect that more may be "spoiled" by too little philosophy than by too much. That is, too many people go through life mindlessly following the crowd and accepting its beliefs and customs without adequate reflection and getting swept up in hysterical mob frenzies of fear and hatred.
MORE philosophy, not less! :-)
EXACTLY: "Beware lest any man spoil you through philospohy, and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after christ." Col2:8
Clearly he (PG) has twisted the Word beyond comprehension of truth. He has indoctrinated himself to serve self.
Continue in humble prayer, and no doubt you'll receive direction in His time.
SIWL
"Clearly he (PG) has twisted the Word beyond comprehension of truth. He has indoctrinated himself to serve self."
WHY did he indoctrinate himself? :-)
Actually, I compared this to my study bible, which compares to the original in a more up to date language. It says:
See to it that no one makes a prey of you by philosophy and empty deceit, according to human tradition, according to the elemental spirits of the universe and not according to Christ.
Coonhound, now who is speaking with the Lord? Amen. He does have his wit as well. Amen
What ever you say Nagarjuna.
Lest means for fear that.
But to each there own.
SIWL
"This is what takes me so long to finish my letter to the first, P. Garrido. "
What is the PURPOSE of your letter, Samantha? To vent your spleen at Garrido over his evildoing? To vent God's spleen through you? To explain to Garrido the error and harm of his ways? If so, to WHAT end? To HELP him in some way? Why would you do THAT except out of some measure of COMPASSION? :-)
Humble yourself to the Lord nag and ask. I have no exclusive line to Him.
I am going to take a break for a bit, so I can chat more later. Ciao
SIWL
"Humble yourself to the Lord nag and ask. I have no exclusive line to Him."
What is THAT in response to, Coonhound? Where did I say or imply that you had this "line"?
ICor1:21
For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe."
Verse 19
For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent."
Nag, I used to be head deep in philiophy and understanding. These passages served be well over time.
Just food for thought.
SIWL
You asked me "why did he indoctrinate himself." Only garrido and God know that, nag.
SIWL
"Coonhound, You said something I forgot to respond to earlier in the day. Something about admiring my responses. Thank you for that, but I have to admit, they are not just my responses. I sit here and I ask Him to be with me. To help me say what he wants me to say, how I should respond."
That's very interesting, Samantha. When you falsely accuse me of ill will, of deliberately "twisting" words, and of "condemning" Christians, and you argue that Jesus is okay with Christians hating Garrido and that I'm wrong to say otherwise, "He" is speaking through you and guiding you. :-) What a wonderful Lord you worship! :-)
With a Lord like that, who needs Satan? :-)
Coonhound, I have a question for you. Sometimes when I can't find things I want to find in the bible, it is just because I cannot find them. Sometimes it is because the good lord does not want me to see or use that at this time, maybe it does not apply.
I have been looking for a few scripture, but the one that seems so obvious, and seen, read, so many times I cannot find is where Jesus was teaching and someone disgraced a prostitute, and Jesus taught them that every person, no matter what the sin can be forgiven.
Kind of a test here on why I cannot find this. Can you find it?
SIWL
"You asked me "why did he indoctrinate himself." Only garrido and God know that, nag."
No, apparently YOU do too, Coonhound. You know that he did it because he simply and blamefully chose to do it. Nothing made him do it. There's nothing more to understand about it that requires the Lord's or anyone else's elucidation. :-)
SIWL
Look nag. I studied at a private liberal arts college ran be Jesuits.
I, too, studied pyschology, philosophy...a lot of philosophy, religion, the philosophy of religion, LOGIC and so on and so.
Whippty Doo Doo!
Give the superior wisdom a break already.
You are so thick in it you're either lost in it or blinded by it.
not a test on you... I may have said that wrong. After a serious look or memory, can you find this?
SIWL
"Nag, I used to be head deep in philiophy and understanding. These passages served be well over time.
Just food for thought."
What kind of "philosophy," Coonhound? How did it lead you astray?
Samatha,
When I can't find or recall what I want. In the Word, I let it rest for a bit. Sometimes I've had to wait minutes, sometimes months. I never force through my own will.
And I always pray for understanding and guidance when I read the Word.
(Sounds cooky, but has served me well)
Samatha...it should be in mathew mark luke or john.
You'll find it in mathew.
I don't have my bible with me right now.
No, it's not cooky, He will give us his word when He sees we need it. It is why I am thinking He does not want this in this letter. But he gave me the follow-up scripture, that goes with what repentance involves, so I am not sure why I cannot find it. My letter to him is about done except for this. Maybe I will take a break from it, and try again tomorrow.
See, I read Matthew about 10 times. It is my favorite, and I was positive it was there, but I have not found it searching through it still.
Nag,
It didn't lead me astray, but I allowed it to be a major stumbling block.
LOL, I was also trying to find just now a message I read just after I decided not to communicate with Nag, which I know he put before me as the pages just opened to it. It was relating to what someone else in here relayed, that He instructs us not to argue with those blaspheming Him and his word.
SIWL
"Give the superior wisdom a break already.
You are so thick in it you're either lost in it or blinded by it."
Look, Coonhound, I don't know if my "wisdom" is superior or not. Maybe it's abjectly inferior to yours and Samantha's and other people's here. Maybe individuals make the choices they do for no reason or cause that compels them to do it. Maybe it's perfectly fine and good to hate Garrido's guts and even to want him sodomized to death in prison. before he burns in screaming agony beyond comprehension in hell forever. Maybe philosophy and science and all other rational disciplines and all religious traditions other than Christianity are deluded and will lead their practitioners straight down the wide road to perdition.
But if I'm "blinded" by my delusions and don't see the "Way, the Truth, and the Life" that you see, WHY is that, and what can I, who am blind, do to see?
I cannot find that right now, but I will.
I distinctly remember someone also saying that if they didn't like something taking place or being discussed, they could leave, any place at any time.
SIWL
"He instructs us not to argue with those blaspheming Him and his word."
Samantha, so God is saying through you that I "blaspheme" Him and His word?
HOW am I doing this, Oh Lord?
Nag, you are troubled and you hide behind what you believe to be superior wisdom and truths.
I understand.
Nag, you are troubled and you hide behind what you believe to be superior wisdom and truths.
I understand.
Samantha, is this it?
Luke 7:36
No Denise. Thank you. I did find this one this a.m. The one I am looking for was powerful, in re: prostitutes.
right now I am looking for Chinese restaurants that deliver, I am starving and it has been a lazy day, I am trying to keep with my practices today.
Hi everyone.
I heard BrendaStar mention my name earlier.
I haven't gone anywhere.
Just an interested silent observer in the corner of the room (grin)
Try some Thai food instead, Samantha. :-) Live dangerously. :-)
"I haven't gone anywhere.
Just an interested silent observer in the corner of the room (grin)"
Tara, so you haven't been turned into one of Denise's zombies after all. :-)
nag
"Tara, so you haven't been turned into one of Denise's zombies after all"
No I don't think so, not yet lol
Was it not John 8:7? He who is without sin, throw the first stone?
I have a migraine and I did not read exactly what it was that you were searching for. But I am trying to find it. That doesnt even make sense.
Gosh Samantha,
I hope you find it in here somewhere.
Proverbs 23:26-28 and 29:3 advise the (male) reader to avoid prostitutes. Deuteronomy 23:18 states the principle that a prostitute's wages cannot be brought to the Sanctuary. A father cannot market his (legitimate) daughter (Lev 19:29) and a Priest's daughter who becomes a prostitute is to be executed by burning (Lev 21:7-9). 1 Kings 22:38 identifies a disreputable place as the place where prostitutes go to wash. Jepthah is thrown out by his half-brothers because his mother is a prostitute (Jud11:1-2), and Simeon and Levi excuse their slaughter of the Shechemites because their sister was being treated "like a prostitute" (Gen 34:31). Also in 1 Kings 3:16 the two mothers are first identified as prostitutes before they are identified as mothers.
Samantha,
U there stll, get ur chinese?
Coonhound LOVES potstickers! Yum yum
"Was it not John 8:7? He who is without sin, throw the first stone?"
It's probably not the passage she's searching for, but it's a great one anyway, Denise. I may not agree with Christianity overall, but one can't deny that it packs its share of wisdom.
Matthew 1:1-16 places four women -- all questionable women -- in the genealogy of Jesus. They are Tamar, Rahab, Ruth and Bathsheba (the wife of Uriah). Tamar was a Canaanite woman who pretended to be a prostitute to seduce her father-in-law in order to bear him heirs (Genesis 38).
Tara, I hope you did not miss Goblinbee asking about you today. She said she misses you dearly. She is leaving for a week for the beach. Just thought I would let you know, in case you missed it and since she might not be here for awhile to tell you.
That's the difference bw a child of god and an unbeliever, nag.
For us its not about agreeing vs disagreeing in God's Word, who mind you was Christ in the flesh.
We live by Word and Faith; grow through His grace.
Thanks Denise, I am almost positive it was in Matthew, but I'll look at these in a bit.
Coonhound. LOL - I would ship you some if I had thought about getting some pot stickers. Truth is, placing my order was a nightmare again. LOL. I don't speak Chineze and they do not speak very good English... I didn't have a menu so, it was quite difficult for them. I ended up ordering War Wonton Soup and Shrimp Chop Suey.
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