During the month of July 2009 JM's Enterprises, 1215 Willow Pass Road * Pittsburg CA,(925) 439-8118 was the host to a powerful demonstration, the Creator has given me the ability to speak in the tongue of angels in order to provide a wake-up call that will in time include the salvation of the entire world.
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«Oldest ‹Older 3401 – 3600 of 12462 Newer› Newest»There really hasn't been anythin new has there on the garrido story? We've had a lot of flooding in the SE, so. I've been pre-occupied with all that.
Everything in, on, and the credenza itself is JJ's. Remember Jack was suppose to be on vacation, and just doesn't do what he his suppose to do. JJ's office is on the list as one to be painted.
Sorry to hear that Coonhound. I haven't read up on all the news yet tonight, but I heard something about flooding there today. And yesterday another flood due to a broken water main was suppose to cause a lot of damage also. How is your home holding up?
There has been news, just not the news the world wants to use to put this creep away for good! :( We'll find it though.... If Boogie and I have to volunteer to help! Right Boogie?
Be back..I'm gonna google something.
I know you are joking, but actually, I was thinking about it. If there is a log for his little ankle bracelet... I truly wouldn't mind studying it. Think they would let me.
It is times like these I wish knew more about criminal law.
Coonhound, me too, I am sorry about the flooding. It happens every year down there. How do you manage it?
Boogie, I am going to get out of here.... yawning, can't think anymore. Yak at ya later.
Take care Coonhound. Good to read ya.
P.S. Don't you have enough to do? You are going to age way before your time!!!!
We're fine, thankfully no problems for us. Estimated damage thus far in GA is 250 million.
LOL, I figure if I have time to blog, I have time for other stuff too. (I do not think they will let me do it for them anyway... I am sure they are already on top of it). Have a good night.
WOW... Wonder how that all gets covered each year.
Goodnight freak.
Boogie, this one is being called a once in a century flood, evidently.
News is reporting that only a small fraction of those filing claims has flood coverage. But that the home repairs will help boost the economy. (So sad)
that is terribly sad.... hurting the homeowners will not help the economy..... they are the economy
I shouldn't have been so definitive in that comment, but it really does not make sense to me.
Lowes and Home Depot may benefit, but I can't imagine to many others benefitting
Home repair companies, builders. Plus, replacing everything that was lost. Homes and buildings were completely covered.
Don't you get some of that hurricane business there too?
it doesn't make sense to me either since very few had flood coverage (according to news reports) and I'm sure very few have equity available to do repairs not covered.
Yeah. And just gettin out of a severe drought too.
This news and the rest of the news is very very depressing tonight and I haven't even read it all yet.
I think I am going to just kick back and watch a movie tonight.... No more of this.
Here's to hoping they find another lead on this freak with something new taking place!
Have a good night Coonhound. Glad you came back.
You too, enjoy ur movie.
(All that is depressing)
Yuck.
Hello everyone
Boogie/freak
Earlier in the week the news showed his "black box" and it reminded me about a book I read about 15 yrs ago or so, and for the life of me I can't remember the name of the book.
But its about this guy (TRUE STORY), named Jeffrey Lundgren. He had a cult up in Kirkland, Ohio.
Anyway, his dealings were perverse and he manipulated his followers into killing an entire family who were also part of the cult. I believe he's still on death row, but not certain.
This Lundgren story very much reminds me of the garridos.
Hi Coonhound. Not sure how this relates. The black box? There was no family murder here or suspicion of it, was there?
I'll have to come back and see what you meant.... getting ready for another day at work.
Ok, lundgren's death penalty was carried out in 2006.
Here's some background info if interested and not already aware of this one...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeffrey_Lundgren
The book was interesting bc it gives you an inside view of how these perverse finatics work. I do remember that it was very disturbing though.
Give me time and I'll find out the name of the book, it might be up in the attic. I'll check on it later.
I just remembered about this guy(lundgren) as they were showing garrido's black box on the news...but lundren also believed that god or some higher being spoke to him. And his followers believed it and trusted in it.
The book is called "The Prophet of Death" by Pete Early.
I feel I should caution anyone before reading though bc it was very graphic.
Freak, I would say it relates bc its another example of a self professed prophet, an oppurtunist, abusing religion to to satisfy and justify is perverse desires.
Hope I did a better job clarifying my thoughts on that, freak. (Giggle)
TheBoogieManHater,
Good morning and hello!!I didnt read your message until today (this am, giggling) i liked your comment:
"No thanks to the Yahoo blog. I have enough on my plate with this interest, work, and the work assigned to me by BrendaStar, LOL."
:)
Yes I am aware of the CIA, very aware... and of other things regarding them also..I am so glad you find all of this stuff as interesting as i did... its unreal. I, like yourself started a fact quest and just became engulfed in it all...What movie are you watching?? I watched things over and over again too.It is very interesting and time consuming stuff I think as well hence 5 years now LOL.....Oh i can relate to the turtle. But I like you (I think) research things first before coming to a conclusion about information. I must admit i did miss chatting with you guys/gals yesterday...
Tara,
I think the UK and the USA are a lot more alike then we all think... on a government level..
did anyone watch that video link yesterday of actual audio of a women's home being seized by the bank illegally?? besides Tara...
YouAreSuchAFreak,
How are you doing today? I found your comment about living in the same are as Ted Bundy all those years eerie, yet very interesting... I am surprised you did not know about his history... That guy coonhound was talking about yesterday that said he talked to god and he brainwashed people like in a cult that was interesting too I had never heard about that before...
i meant.....area sorry for the typos... I hate typos...
Hey brendastar. Hope ur well. I'm just checking on updates right now. Have a good day.
Coonhound,
Why hello there.... Good morning... Thank you! I hope your doing well also... Me too. Not much to report on my side. lol.. I read all about that Lundgren guy and his wife and them murdering the Avery family.. Poor children and parents how terrifying...
Garrido kind of reminds me of rev. Jones you know Jones Town...
Coonhound,
I hope you have a good day too..
Jones Town...what a horrible tragedy that was to learn about! I've watched documentries about that. Just horrible, horrible! I wouldn't mind reading about that one. Its amazing the power these people are able to hold over those that are vunerable and desperate for something! Geez.
Nagarjuna, I am still having trouble registering. It will not accept any postal code I can think of (Los Angeles, New York, etc.), and it won't let me leave it blank.
Also, I emailed you yesterday. Did you get it? I'll try again.
goblinbee, my server is being crazy today and yesterday. There will be a tech here tonight between 5 and 7. I made the appointment late so I could have time, finally, to get caught up on cleaning. Plus, lol, I needed to clean before anyone enters my home. I am packing all of my things today that I would want to take with me to wherever I go. I think there is no more Peru now. I am so depressed and sad about it, that I feel that I have to leave and go somewhere now. I can speak with you about that in email, if you care to know. lol I feel so lost right now. Have a nice day, I will not be writing in here today. I can only get online sometimes, and I can only go to certain sites. If I tried email right now, I think it wouldnt work. When I log out of here, I wont be able to get back in.
Also, I wanted to tell you that maybe I can make you a Yahoo Account. It worked for me, but after I (think) I found the site, I was lost. peace
Boogie,
Here's another documentary for you... its 2 hours long this link...
its called Truth rising.
opps Boogie heres the link sorry:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-yscpNIxjI
Anyone know the latest in the Garrido case?
Alleged Jaycee abductor did not register
ANTIOCH, Calif., Sept. 23 (UPI) -- A California man suspected of kidnapping an 11-year-old girl and holding her for 18 years wasn't registered as sex offender for much of that time, records show.
Despite a 1976 kidnapping and rape conviction in Nevada, Phillip Garrido apparently didn't register as a sex offender in California until 1999, eight years after police allege he abducted Jaycee Dugard and held her as a sex slave in his Antioch, Calif., home, the Bay Area News Group reported Wednesday.
"He came to us in 1999, when he was in that Antioch address, and since then for 10 years he has registered as required," Contra Costa County sheriff's spokesman Jimmy Lee told the news service. "I can't account for what happened before that, or even where he was."
Other authorities say Garrido had been living at the Antioch house since at least 1991, when police allege he plucked Dugard from a South Lake Tahoe, Calif., street.
Deputy California Attorney General Janet Neeley, who oversees the state's sex offender registry, said it was very possible for Garrido to slip through the cracks in the state due because state laws were different at the time, the news group said.
Oh Coonhound!!!! I thought I would be coming home from work today to read about Garrido being under suspicion for killing a family now. In fact before walking out the door this morning I did a search on his name to see if any news was out there regarding this. When I first read your post, and the cult aspect, I also thought of Charles Manson.
Hello"professional. I didn't see your post this a.m.
Lol. You're too funny freak! (Still giggling)
Things have calmed down around here a good bit. Kinda odd not being nipped at the heels by Nagarjuna.
...Like a blue-heeler dog trying to heard the cows.
Hi BrendaStar:
I don't recall knowing a lot about any violent crimes when I was a child or teenager. I slightly remember my parents shutting down and refusing to answer questions or changing the subject when asking what they were talking about, after they watched something about Manson and his "family" on the news. I do not think any of the outside world through the news started to hit me until I was in college. After reading Wiki documentation on Bundy, because of that movie, I did the math and guestimated the times I lived in the same places he was. (I think some of their dates are wrong, or my math was wrong and I plan to go back to that article another day) It just struck me odd that day that I could have been one of his victims, anyone in my family could have been, but when I think about it, most of us could be any one of this rapist/pedophile's victims at any time.
While most people detest them, cops face them every day and have to hold back throttling them (and everyone is down on cops these days, how much restraint does this show they really have), even their co-prisoners hate and despise them. What I do not get is why the government can only give a rapist of any child or woman 1 to 6 years (the average penal code for sentences in the states). This is where I am going to apply my time and attention in the future. Something is wrong with our lawmakers. People like Nag just don't get it. These pedophiles destroy life... permanently, forever, and force people to relive events time and time again. Pedophiles do nothing less than murder people whether they cause them to stop breathing or not. While there are very few men who get raped, I truly think it is the women who know and understand this better and I think it is going to take women lawmakers to change these laws/sentences.
Coonhound, Don't say that too loud :) Just enjoy LOL
BrendaStar, your comment on typos gets me at heart too. I also hate them. If I wanted my secretary in my personal life, I would have her edit first. I get kind of messy sometimes and send it through without proofing thanks to having her around for so long to do these things for me.
But, it is a blog, not work, don't have to be professional. I also love being able to use contractions in casual writing to. I had to remind myself that I can do that on lots of occasions in here.
Dr. Webb, Garrido has been living at that address since 1988 when he was first released from the NV prison. After doing his federal sentence, he was sent to NV to his time there, after only a few months, they released him and he went straight to his mommy.
I could not find any articles today regarding Garrido not registering for so long. Once I have more time, unless anyone already knows, I do want to look up when the law went into effect that all sex offenders must register. What I am really interested in at this time, is the ankle braclet that Garrido had to wear. Did he have to wear that since he was released from prison in 1988, or when did that start. My recollection is that this electronic equipment was no available except within the past 10 to 15 years, but I may be incorrect. I did a liberal search for this information, but really to tired to stay focused today.
Freak, here's an informative article that may have addressed your questions:
http://www.mercurynews.com/ci_13401460?source=most_viewed&nclick_check=1
(Sorry if it doesn't and wastes your time...I only skimmed)
It's okay Coonhound. Nothing is a waste of time trying to make sense of this and trying to figure out the best ways to put an end to its rapid growth.
There is one more thing that really bothers me about this case. Every single time someone tries to find out why Garrido was put back in jail (some reporters say home confinement) for four months in 1993 due to "FEDERAL" PAROLE VIOLATION, this answer is dodged. EVERYONE WHO SHOULD KNOW WHY says, "I DON'T KNOW" what law he broke. So far, the people, the media just take that for the answer.
This denial easily leads me to believe that it was some sort of sexual attempt or something that would have led them to Jaycee so much sooner.
Not that it will change anything, what is done is done. Not that I am trying to embarrass the FBI, but you know, nothing can be corrected when it is not confronted and dealt with. Our children and women cannot be properly protected until things like this are addressed. When the community knows, it puts the pressure on, then things become improved, the authorities remember the mistakes and are able to do a better job for the work required, for a better outcome.
Boogie, if you ever get here, I will probably not be here... Going to catch a few zzz's before the party.
Take care Coonhound, Doc, and BrendaStar.
Happy Zzzzz's to you, freak. Be safe.
Hi Coonhound. Nice to see you again and thanks for all the website and book info.
YouAreSuchAFreak. I am hoping I don't get to comfortable so I can make the party. Dog Day Again! I know I have to go, but do not plan to stay long at all.
Good afternoon BrendaStar. My attempt last night to watch a movie was to get away from all this for a bit. It gets to be to much sometimes, so I didn't watch or read anymore news or documentaries, but picked a nice, funny family movie.... Adam Sandler's Bed Time Stories. I actually fell asleep watching it, and watched the ending this morning with my breakfast instead.
Boogie,
Thanks and your welcome.
(The warm welcomes are much appreciated from this end)
Freak,
New article questioning the '93 parole violation.
http://www.rgj.com/article/20090923/NEWS01/909230430
Thanks Coonhound. Well, if this doesn't tell you the parole board knows they screwed up. From the Reno Gazette article: "The parole document was among 19 pages released by the U.S. Parole Commission in response to a Freedom of Information Act request filed by the Reno Gazette-Journal. Portions of the 19 pages were redacted, and the department refused to release another 92 pages of parole documents, claiming they are exempt from FOIA requests.
The Reno Gazette-Journal is appealing that decision."
I downloaded the parole papers. I would not be surprised if the Reno Gazzetted does not file a motion with the Courts to force the Parole Board to provide the remaining documents, if their appeal does not work. It is all to convenient for the Parole Board to say that only these 19 pages are subject to the Freedom of Information Act. The arrest information is suppose to be available to the public and who knows what else is within those papers.
In any event, it does appear the violation had to have been a drug charge. The time spent (a short 3 3/4 months) in jail for the offense, the fact that he was ordered to attend drug aftercare, and the 120 electronic home monitoring. It appears that this 120 days was all the ankle monitoring he had so far, otherwise it would not be noted 120 days. But, who knows what the truth really is when the Parole Board appears to be hard at work hiding their screw up. So, Boogie, you will not be able to find his whereabouts when he first got out of prison in '88.
Go get them RGJ!
"Kinda odd not being nipped at the heels by Nagarjuna."
Do you miss me, Coonhound?
I am really proud of the Reno Gazette right now... I love how they are appealing this.. release those 92 pages of information we are allowed to have access to.... thank you for the information... Good morning Boogie, Freak, Tara and everyone else...
I am curious about Nags depart....
I signed up for his yahoo thing but its not very eye friendly.. I have yet to use it..
So I myself have tossed with this to. Is this the proper place to be having an ongoing discussion with others?I asked myself questions like "am I being respectful" of my old friend Jaycee. After about a week of pondering those very thoughts I came to the conclusion that I am not doing anything inappropriate and I actually now take pleasure in the fact that this blog is NO longer ran by Phillip Garrido that it has indeed been taken over... I like that...and seized per say by the public... I like the fact that if anyone ever frequents this that they will see all these post and will know who P.G. and N.G. really are....Before this was just a blog of crap...Now it actually has intellect. I dont know, it was my thought for the day...
Nag,
I appreciate you difference of opinion.....
i meant 'your'
"People like Nag just don't get it. These pedophiles destroy life... permanently, forever, and force people to relive events time and time again."
Freak, I DO get the fact that lives are often ruined by sexual abuse. I get it so well that I have always agreed with you in advocating lifetime quarantine if not execution for especially serious crimes of this kind, and Garrido's crimes would certainly fall into that category.
All I have been saying in disagreement with you is that people who commit these crimes do it because they're sick, disordered, or defective and are, therefore, despite the grievous harm they've done, entitled to our compassion and to as humane a treatment as we can give them within the context of lifetime incarceration or capital punishment.
ya he does spark resemblances as well to Charlie Manson the manipulation with LSD and also the need to do these things while on this drug..
TheBoogieManHater,
I am glad you got to watch a movie and take a break... I watched "inglorious bastards" in the theater yesterday.. i liked it a lot.
YouAreSuchAFreak ,
So funny you say that about our shared typo hate... LOL.. Well you see my new friend I am a Pencil pusher lol, so I have NO excuses... We are supposed to correct those things... Here I am typing so fast I just dont care.. then i read it back and cringe.... LOL...
Nag,
I was hoping you'd comment on my thought for the day... :)
"I was hoping you'd comment on my thought for the day... :)"
To what are you referring, Brenda?
I agree that we've taken this blog and turned it into something better than the incoherent rambling it started out being, and I don't believe that you're betraying Jaycee and her family by posting here.
I also agree that Yahoo Groups forums aren't the most "eye-friendly" places, but they're easy to use, and I've had some very good discussions in other such groups.
Frankly, I don't expect anything to come of the group I set up on a whim, but it's there if and when any of us want to say something there.
By the way, Brenda, my wife and I were in South Tahoe in mid-August for our anniversary, and we had a nice time there. The weather was almost perfect, and the lake was as beautiful as ever.
Freak, I DO get the fact that lives are often ruined by sexual abuse. I get it so well that I have always agreed with you in advocating lifetime quarantine if not execution for especially serious crimes of this kind, and Garrido's crimes would certainly fall into that category. All I have been saying in disagreement with you is that people who commit these crimes do it because they're sick, disordered, or defective and are, therefore, despite the grievous harm they've done, entitled to our compassion and to as humane a treatment as we can give them within the context of lifetime incarceration or capital punishment.September 24, 2009 8:36 AM
Coonhound can respect that and I believe we can all work together on it.
Perhaps we need to talk about changing a "broken system" specifically in regards to sex offenders.
That's just an example I'm throwing out there.
Together let's define our objective, discuss what works and what doesn't, and discuss rational solutions...
Sorry, I meant to place quotes around my last post...it was nag addressing freak.
Oops, dang typos!
BrendaStar, are you brendadaly in the Yahoo group? I'm reddmoonrising (goblinbee was taken). Y'all can call me Moon.
Freak, BrendaStar...
I read today that its the prosecution not allowing all the parole info/records to be released bc it could hinder their case against PG.
I'll try to find that article and post it here.
goblinbee,
yes that is me...lol.. busted.. ha ha. j/k :)
lol, Can someone please post here again how to find the correct location in the Yahoo Group?
Nag:"I also agree that Yahoo Groups forums aren't the most "eye-friendly" places, but they're easy to use,"
easy to use. lol I must be too dense. I need to ask my 7 year old to help me.
BrendaStar,
My mother is moving back to California next month. To South Lake Tahoe. My uncles live there. I almost died when I thought she was moving back to California. I was worried for her, but I feel better that she is moving to Tahoe instead.
Nagarjuna,
Really?? I love hearing about people enjoying themselves here in Lake Tahoe. I too live on the South side... born and raised... but i love it here....i can not explain the beauty...
Nagarjuna,
Thank you for your reply to my question. I was curious as your presence has been little as of late which has been quite the opposite previously. So I wanted to know if it had something to do with you setting up that other site and if you felt it was not morally correct.
Coonhound, I'd like to see rapists and child molestaters not stigmatized the way they are now. I'd like the general public encouraged to see these acts as crimes of sickness rather than of blameful malevolence, somewhat the way we look at drug addiction, alcoholism, and domestic abuse now.
Actually, an even better comparison might be drunk driving. Drunk driving, like rape and child molestation, is viewed and treated as a serious crime, especially if anyone is injured or killed in an accident involving drunk driving, but I don't get the impression that society stigmatizes and vilifies a drunk driver the way it does rapists and child molesters.
People who rape adults and molest children should face severe sanctions for acting out their desires, but they should receive a lot more social and therapeutic support than they do now for being victimized by these tendencies and desires so that they're better able to resist acting them out.
And, if they do act them out, sentences should be imposed based on the severity of the offense. For example, abducting someone to repeatedly rape or molest them should receive a more severe sentence than one instance of unforced sex between two people close in age, even if one is an ault and the other a minor.
denise,
Tahoe is beautiful, sadly the economy is really bad up here though... really bad! quite the opposite of what our city trys to reflect.... Nag if youve been up here recently i dont know if you noticed that big whole in the ground by the casinos when they forced our local shop owners out to build a complex that they ended up going bankrupt and now its been sitting there for 4 years untouched blocked off by a fence? just curious... I love it here I have seen this town change though and any true local will tell you the same thing... if they are still here, many cant afford to live here and have left...
denise,
P.s. Hello welcome back missed ya.
Nag,
That was a lot of info. I will say this, me personally, I deteste people who drink and drive. Often those that do it aren't necessarily alcoholics, too. Too many precious lives have been lost and permanently damaged to careless behavior. Alcoholism is a sickness, DUI is a crime no matter the circumstances.I have no tolerance for those that DUI, wether it be from alcohol, illegal or prescription drugs.
(Just my thoughts on that)
Nag said:
"People who rape adults and molest children should face severe sanctions for acting out their desires,..."
I agree, there must be severe consequences to these crimes. And I will add "swift" consequences.
Nag said:
"...but they should receive a lot more social and therapeutic support than they do now for being victimized by these tendencies and desires so that they're better able to resist acting them out."
I have a very difficult time viewing sex offenders as victims of their own desires and tendancies.
Also Nag...we share understanding in differentiating when it comes to unforced sex bw two people "close in age," even when one is a minor.
Coonhound, I understand your feelings toward those who DUI, and I tend to share them. But I still don't think society as a whole stigmatizes and vilifies them as much as it does those who rape adults or sexually abuse children, even when the harm they do while driving drunk is as grave.
However, I do try to distinguish between the act and the person, and "despise" the act and not the person who commits it.
As for the difficulty you say you have in seeing someone who molests children as a "victim" of his desire to molest, I can't see it any other way. I can't imagine someone "freely" choosing to have this desire; I can't see how it's anything but a manifestation of pathology. And I can't imagine anyone molesting children without being involuntarily victimized by the aberrent desire to do it and also by the inability to refrain from acting it out.
Imagine that you were consumed with as great of a sexual desire for children as you had for pretty girls or handsome guys (depending on your gender and sexual preference) when you were at the hormonal height of your teenaged years, and multiply that several times over. Then imagine that you are told that these desires are forbidden and monstrous and that only the most horribly vile, evil, and dusgusting people harbor them and that they deserve to be condemned, tortured, and even killed for acting on them. Wouldn't it be terrible to find yourself in this predicament? Where would you go for help? To whom would you confess your "vile" secret? Would you freely wish this upon yourself?
Then imagine that you lacked the conscience of most of your peers as well as a normal sense of empathy for the sufferings of others. You didn't choose to be this way. This is just how you turned out. What would stop you from acting out your all-consuming sexual desire for children?
This is how I've heard those who molest children describe themselves and their struggles, and it sure sounds to me like they're victims too.
Sexual offenders stigmatize their victims.
Society partakes in labels and stigmas of all kinds.
For example,
often the victims of sex crimes must contend with a stigma of being "damaged goods."
The desires you speak of in themselves are not a crime. The crime is when one acts on upon them.
There is choice involved here, nagarjuna.
Sexual offenders stigmatize their victims.
Society partakes in labels and stigmas of all kinds.
For example,
often the victims of sex crimes must contend with a stigma of being "damaged goods."
The desires you speak of in themselves are not a crime. The crime is when one acts on upon them.
There is choice and free-will involved here, nagarjuna.
Sexual offenders stigmatize their victims.
Society partakes in labels and stigmas of all kinds.
For example,
often the victims of sex crimes must contend with a stigma of being "damaged goods."
The desires you speak of in themselves are not a crime. The crime is when one acts on upon them.
There is choice and free-will involved here, nagarjuna.
"There is choice involved here, nagarjuna."
Coonhound, would you not agree with me that if one were not victimized by the abnormal desire to molest children, one would not have to grapple with the "choice" of whether or not to act out that desire?
And why, given the grievous harm that molesting can do to the child and to the perpetrator if he's caught, would someone "choose" to act out this desire?
"Society partakes in labels and stigmas of all kinds.
For example,
often the victims of sex crimes must contend with a stigma of being "damaged goods."
I believe that society is misguided to impose these stigmas on child victims, and that rather than using this misguided conduct as an excuse to stigmatize offenders, we should, instead, concentrate on ending the stigmatization of child and adult victims of sexual abuse.
Also on stigmas...
Victims of sexual offenses will stimatize their ownselves, its part of the psychological damage that is inflicted on them by the sexual predator.
Fyi...
I am female.
"Victims of sexual offenses will stimatize their ownselves, its part of the psychological damage that is inflicted on them by the sexual predator."
I'm sure you're right, Coonhound. But I'm not sure how this relates to my argument that we shouldn't stigmatize sexual abusers just because the victims of that abuse are also stigmatized. That is, if it's wrong or misguided, as I believe it is, for victims of sexual abuse to either stigmatize themselves or to be stigmatized by society, it is also wrong for society to stigmatize those who inflict this abuse because of their sickness, disorder, or defect.
What's more, I would like to propose the radical thesis that children would not be as badly harmed by sexual abuse if society took a more objective view of the offense and reacted to it with less irrational emotion.
This is not for one second to suggest that it isn't a serious offense that should be dealth with in serious ways by the legal system. However, it IS to say that the harm of childhood sexual abuse may well be needlessly exacerbated by the overblown ways in which society often reacts to this kind of thing, including its unfortunate tendency to stigmatize the child as "damaged goods" in a way that may often turn out to be a self-fulfilling prophecy.
“often the victims of sex crimes must contend with a stigma of being "damaged goods."”
I do not see that in society in the least bit. I often wonder where you get these crazy ideas. These words are nothing less than a child's words, or actions on a school ground. It is most certainly not society's view. What I see is everyone feeling the pain of that child and righteously so! All parents and most other adults feel a sense of responsibility to children. These things should not have happened. How did we fail them? They are able to put their hearts along side that childs pain, but at the same time, these same adults have the experience in life to KNOW THE EFFECTS OF THESE RAPES AND OTHER CRIMES WILL ADVERSELY AFFECT A CHILD AS THEY GROW. It is called compassion nag, not a stigma of “damaged goods”.
In my eye, and apparently the majority of the public’s eyes, there is no compassion for pedophiles that knowingly cause these lifelong damages.
“often the victims of sex crimes must contend with a stigma of being "damaged goods."”
I do not see that in society in the least bit. I often wonder where you get these crazy ideas. These words are nothing less than a child's words, or actions on a school ground. It is most certainly not society's view. What I see is everyone feeling the pain of that child and righteously so! All parents and most other adults feel a sense of responsibility to children. These things should not have happened. How did we fail them? They are able to put their hearts along side that childs pain, but at the same time, these same adults have the experience in life to KNOW THE EFFECTS OF THESE RAPES AND OTHER CRIMES WILL ADVERSELY AFFECT A CHILD AS THEY GROW. It is called compassion nag, not a stigma of “damaged goods”.
In my eye, and apparently the majority of the public’s eyes, there is no compassion for pedophiles that knowingly cause these lifelong damages.
“often the victims of sex crimes must contend with a stigma of being "damaged goods."”
I do not see that in society in the least bit. Sometimes I wonder where you get these ideas. These are not "societies stigmas" but maybe that of a child on the school ground. One who has no experience to understand. What I see is the adult society feeling the pain of that child and righteously so! All parents and most other adults feel a sense of responsibility to children. These things should not have happened. How did we fail them? They are able to put their hearts along side that childs pain, but at the same time, these same adults have the experience in life to KNOW THE EFFECTS OF THESE RAPES AND OTHER CRIMES WILL ADVERSELY AFFECT A CHILD AS THEY GROW. It is called compassion nag, not a stigma of “damaged goods”.
In my eye, and apparently the majority of the public’s eyes, there is no compassion for pedophiles that knowingly cause these lifelong damages.
"It is called compassion nag, not a stigma of “damaged goods”."
First of all, someone else suggested that this is how society often regards the child victims of sexual abuse. But I happen to agree with her. It may not be phrased as "damaged goods," but this is the general sense of it.
Now I do believe that society's greater willingness to discuss these matters openly--far more openly than when I was growing up--is a positive thing that probably causes less stigmatization of the victim and consequently less self- stigmatization by the victim than was previously the case.
Yet, I still suspect that many, especially lesser educated people, continue to stigmatize not only the perpetrator but the perpetratee unncessarily and that this has lastingly damaging effects on those who have been abused.
You know nag, I think really need to put your thoughts and your views into perspective. Realize where they come from and deal with that yourself. You have this deep desire to defend rapists and pedophiles with the excuse of mind sickness. You in some way have some sort of crossing with this to come to such strong conclusions. I do not think it truly is a psychological study that brings this out in you as many times you have stated that placing these pedophiles in prison rather than ending their lives would be more suitable for all involved. There are no psychologists that I know that prefer prison life for any mind for life or death. There are no psychologists that I know that would give an excuse for illness in Garrido’s actions, nor drug problems, to gain “sympathy or understanding” for the perpetrator, without fact as to an sickness of any sort. This in fact goes against the grain of psychology and the purpose of studying the mind. FACTS and treatment are the goal, not sympathy. The simple fact is, there is no fact that rapists are mentally sick.
“If one were not victimized by the “abnormal desire” to molest children one would not have to grapple with the "choice" of whether or not to act out that desire?
… and why, given the grievous harm that molesting can do to the child and to the perpetrator if he's caught, would someone "choose" to act out this desire?”
I am not sure where you come up with the fact that a man desiring sex with anyone younger, much less a child is abnormal. Sex is a man’s release of stress and heartache. Their desire is 10 fold to a woman’s desire. Men do not speak of their troubles as women do, and there is in fact much psychological study on this of which you may want to go refresh yourself in knowledge. It is something that most men “think” about regularly or daily. They often desire young flesh, a child in their eyes pushes the limits of abnormal, but it is not out of the norm. I do not think it is abnormal, but rather normal to THINK these thoughts. So, if they act on those “thoughts”, “why knowing the grievious harm it will cost the child and themselves if they get caught?” Because the ones that choose to go so far as beyond their thoughts are selfish. “If they get caught” is also key here. Most criminals do not get caught, they take pride in this. “VICTORY” Which again is most certainly most criminals’ downfall, because doing their crime over and over again will eventually catch up to them.
There is no validation to your assessment of illness here. Even if Garrido had some sort of delusion or schizophrenia, this is not a disorder that causes one to plan out a kidnapping and 18 year long entrapment. Schizophrenia voices are not a constant. These were a personal want of a man. Drug abuse was a personal want of a man.
“often the victims of sex crimes must contend with a stigma of being "damaged goods."”
I do not see that in society in the least bit. What I see is everyone feeling the pain of that child and righteously so! All parents and most other adults feel a sense of responsibility to children. These things should not have happened. How did we fail them? They are able to put their hearts along side that childs pain, but at the same time, these same adults have the experience in life to KNOW THE EFFECTS OF THESE RAPES AND OTHER CRIMES WILL ADVERSELY AFFECT A CHILD AS THEY GROW. It is called compassion nag, not a stigma of “damaged goods”.
In my eye, and apparently the majority of the public’s eyes, there is no compassion for pedophiles that knowingly cause these lifelong damages.
"In my eye, and apparently the majority of the public’s eyes, there is no compassion for pedophiles that knowingly cause these lifelong damages."
And in my eye, you are like someone who feels no compassion for a person who involuntarily contracts a dangerous infectious disease and transmits it to others because the disease made him too sick to realize what the harm he was causing. It's so easy to scorn those who are afflicted with illnesses or defects that you have the great good fortune not to suffer.
Of course, you'll want to say that pedophiles molest intentionally. That is, they know that it's illegal, yet they often (although not always) elaborately premeditate and plan their crimes anyway. But my rejoinder to that is that they don't understand the harm their planned actions will have the way you or I understand it. They are lacking in this area, and because they are defective in this way, they can't restrain themselves from acting out their desire. Either that, or their desire is so strong that it overpowers any inhibitions they might have from acting it out.
I rather enjoyed the topic of DUI’s in comparison to the Drugs that some believe caused Garrido to do this. (I do not, and never will – I have taken many drugs in my time, I did not make a habit out of it, because I knew the consequences of addiction and I knew I had responsibilities in life. I was curious as to the effects and I it was nothing other than going to a legal alcohol party with other effects.) Alcoholism and drug addiction are not the cause of these actions.
In Nevada, we have a rather inhumane law. If anyone is driving, even when there are no drugs or alcohol involved, and if they have an “accident” which causes death, and it was due to their “error” they are automatically indicted for manslauter. I also believe the DA has the opportunity of indicting that driver who inadvertantly caused this “accident” for murder. I do no longer believe it is socially okay to tell a child not to cry over spilt milk, but rather important to enforce the idea that there are no excuse for accidents, you must be on your guard at all times, less you pay dearly. While that is a bit off topic, it is a great comparison to DUIs, whether by alcohol, drugs, alcoholics or drug addicts.
The alcohol and drugs in a man or woman’s body are not the cause of the accident. It is the act of the man or woman to get behind the wheel after drinking or doing drugs. No matter how limited their mind capacity at that moment, they were not drugged or filled with alcohol before they started partying. They do have a responsibility to plan ahead if they are going to drink and do drugs. Don’t drive to the party, take a cab, carpool with a non-drinker, don’t get so polluted you don’t know what you are doing, etc., etc., etc. When they do consume drugs or alcohol and drive, it is no longer an accident, but there are their own actions that caused the result when someone gets injured or dies. These people need to be punished. It is like going back to childhood, when a child would be punished for anything they did of which they were told or warned not to do. When something is unacceptable, and not wanted in society, not only are we now telling them it is not acceptable, but we are removing them from society and preventing that person from doing so again, but we are also honoring those damaged by the lawlessness.
When the issue is to protect society from selfish, sexually deviant, scum bags such as Garrido, and how do we honor those damaged. There is no room for the use of false and unfounded excuses of sickness and illness for them.
I rather enjoyed the topic of DUI’s in comparison to the Drugs that some believe caused Garrido to do this. (I do not, and never will – I have taken many drugs in my time, I did not make a habit out of it, because I knew the consequences of addiction and I knew I had responsibilities in life. I was curious as to the effects and I it was nothing other than going to a legal alcohol party with other effects.) Alcoholism and drug addiction are not the cause of these actions.
In Nevada, we have a rather inhumane law. If anyone is driving, even when there are no drugs or alcohol involved, and if they have an “accident” which causes death, and it was due to their “error” they are automatically indicted for manslauter. I also believe the DA has the opportunity of indicting that driver who inadvertantly caused this “accident” for murder. I do no longer believe it is socially okay to tell a child not to cry over spilt milk, but rather important to enforce the idea that there are no excuse for accidents, you must be on your guard at all times, less you pay dearly. While that is a bit off topic, it is a great comparison to DUIs, whether by alcohol, drugs, alcoholics or drug addicts.
The alcohol and drugs in a man or woman’s body are not the cause of the accident. It is the act of the man or woman to get behind the wheel after drinking or doing drugs. No matter how limited their mind capacity at that moment, they were not drugged or filled with alcohol before they started partying. They do have a responsibility to plan ahead if they are going to drink and do drugs. Don’t drive to the party, take a cab, carpool with a non-drinker, don’t get so polluted you don’t know what you are doing, etc., etc., etc. When they do consume drugs or alcohol and drive, it is no longer an accident, but there are their own actions that caused the result when someone gets injured or dies. These people need to be punished. It is like going back to childhood, when a child would be punished for anything they did of which they were told or warned not to do. When something is unacceptable, and not wanted in society, not only are we now telling them it is not acceptable, but we are removing them from society and preventing that person from doing so again, but we are also honoring those damaged by the lawlessness.
When the issue is to protect society from selfish, sexually deviant, scum bags such as Garrido, and how do we honor those damaged. There is no room for the use of false and unfounded excuses of sickness and illness for them.
Nag:"And in my eye, you are like someone who feels no compassion for a person who involuntarily contracts a dangerous infectious disease"
I am so sorry, but here we are playing make-believe again. No disrespect, Nagarjuna. You should know that I have tried for many days to try to understand your perspectives. I understand that yes, child molesters are sick. But now we have to compare them to people with the flu that sneezed on you in the shopping mall? Jack the Ripper had a very sick mind. I cannot feel sorry for him. I think it has been said that many famous artists had sick minds also. They didnt destroy lives.
Nagarjuna, they have illnesses, that is true. They cause horrible damages to their victims and literally destroy the rest of the victims life, or at least parts of it. Nobody should have compassion for the monster that destroys the life of a young child. Period. Illness or not.
Nagarjuna, I think you should feel compassion for this person. But for you to try to convince others to have compassion would be the same as if I tried to make you believe in God, or for me to convince you to think Chris Rock is hilarious. I think he is funny. You may not. I can sit here all day and tell you reasons why he is funny. You will not change your opinion of his humor if you do not feel the same as I do.
"You have this deep desire to defend rapists and pedophiles with the excuse of mind sickness."
Or I'm making a reasonable, albeit unpopular, argument that grossly aberrent and harmful acts like Garrido's are the product of mental illness and/or defect, and I have a "deep desire" to see real justice tempered with mercy for EVERYONE.
"FACTS and treatment are the goal, not sympathy. The simple fact is, there is no fact that rapists are mentally sick."
You know, Freak, I've never understood any psychologist who gets up on the witness stand and testifies that someone like a Phillip Garrido freely chose to do what he did. This flies in the face of the very SCIENCE of psychology that, after all, studies the CAUSES of mental and behavioral effects. In other words, when someone "chooses" to molest, any psychologist worth his salt should realize that this behavior has causes, most of which are unconscious, that go way back behind and beyond the actor's control. To say otherwise is to suggest that human mentation and behavior are uncaused and, therefore, cannot be studied and explained scientifically.
But if a psychologist does understand that these harmful behaviors are caused, then symapthy and compassion should be the natural outgrowth of this understanding. Sympathy and compassion may not be scientific responses, but they're HUMAN responses to the scientific understanding that people who molest were caused by factors outside their control to do it and are now suffering the consequences of their psychologically determined choices.
"{I am not sure where you come up with the fact that a man desiring sex with anyone younger, much less a child is abnormal."
I don't desire to have sex with prepubescent females or males, and I suspect that most adults don't. That's where I "come up" with the idea. If you DO have desires for prepubescents, then I suppose I can understand your perplexity over my calling it abnormal in a sick way.
"Sex is a man’s release of stress and heartache. Their desire is 10 fold to a woman’s desire."
Says WHO, besides YOU? :-)
I wholeheartedly agree BrendaStar. What better place to put his freakish writings into proper perspective, and dismiss them as self imposed egocentric trash. I have always felt this. If everyone ignored this, and Google just left this on the internet for the world to see, and they would have, it could and would be damaging to someone at one time or another. If even one person was gullible enough to put some sound reason to the writings of Garrido, then we as the public failed that one person.
The ongoing argument is a great place to vent the frustrations of the public and the outcry for stricter and more viable solutions that what the government has so far accomplished.
Amen, YouAreSuchAFreak!!
BrendaStar, I lived in Tahoe when I was 16. I worked in the Deli at Harveys Casino. lol I hated living there. I would probably love living there now, but as a teenager, I hated it. I lived somewhere near the 7-11. And I think there was a small motel across from the 7-11.
this is always where my discussion or words to nag ends. Always cutting and pasting portions of my words. Always and forever trying to change the meaning so that he can contradict and slam a few words without the meaning. The purpose is obviously to slam and "win and argument", without intent of learning and growing or to come to reality.
Hi Freak. Hope ur well.
I take responsibility for the stigma stmt .
Nag stated that society stigmatizes sexual offenders, and I wanted him to understand that the VICTIM must contend with stigmas, too.
No, society as a whole does not stigmatize victims of sexual abuse as "damaged goods," BUT it is not an uncommon stigma (disgraceful label) often used by heartless people and felt by innocent victims.
I have witnessed that label coming out of the mouth of what would otherwise appear to be a fine, upstanding and productive member of society.
Plus, things like incest and rape are often hid in the closet bc it will "shame" the family...bring disgrace to the family or the family member. So, yes that further brings shame and disgrace onto the victim.
Nagarjuna:" and I have a "deep desire" to see real justice tempered with mercy for EVERYONE."
Each time I read this coming from Nagarjuna, it makes me think about the old days when there were guillotines, and burnings at the stake. I believe that todays methods of execution is humane. Dying is not fun in any circumstance. But the criminals on death row get euthanized even far more humanely than those in the ICU when they "pull the plug". They took no mercy when torturing their victims. And if I was this sick, I would pray to be executed for the horrendous crimes I had committed against others.
And as they have already spoken with many rapists and child molesters, they also feel they are monsters. It would only be their survival instincts that would make them not admit that they need the death penalty. But I bet before they were caught doing their crime, if you would have asked them about another pedophile, they would have said something to the effect that "THAT MONSTER NEEDS TO DIE!"
"I do not think it is abnormal, but rather normal to THINK these thoughts."
I agree that more adults probably think them than society readily acknowledges, but I would disagree that most adults are obsessed with them and experience as strong a pull from them as people like Garrido seem to.
"Because the ones that choose to go so far as beyond their thoughts are selfish."
I've addressed this before. Merely "selfish" is grabbing the last popsickle from the refrigerator and eating it before your kid comes home from school to eat it. But sick selfishness is placing yourself and another at grave and unecessary risk because of an overpowering desire to have power over others in the context of "getting off." This is selfishness raised to a pathological level.
What's more, WHY is the person selfish enough to do it? If you desire to molest kids but you don't do it because you're not selfish enough to do it, why aren't you selfish enough but others are?
This is a very sensible question that most people don't bother to ask themselves or each other. But I AM asking it.
Coonhound, I do not work in the arena of criminal law, I do find it interesting and sometimes I wish I knew more about it, but as I go round and round with your post earlier:
"I read today that its the prosecution not allowing all the parole info/records to be released bc it could hinder their case against PG."
I cannot think of one simple thing in the parole documents could have any effect on the trial. At least as it pertains to Garrido. What is in those papers are a written history, which is in relation to facts of Garridos crimes and punishments. Any part of them are, "I believe", accessible to prosecution and defense. Again, I do not do criminal law, so I am not certain.
It just seems to me, if they are available to any party in the trial, then there is likely another cause to attempt keeping them from the public, and one must present a reason to do so.
"No, society as a whole does not stigmatize victims of sexual abuse as "damaged goods," BUT it is not an uncommon stigma (disgraceful label) often used by heartless people and felt by innocent victims. "
If you have ever seen the movie "My name is Steven". It is about a real life boy that was kidnapped. He came forward, after many years of being held by his captor, having many homosexual acts with the man, and eventually bonding with him and feeling close to the man even to the point that he loved him.
After the man kidnapped a second boy later on, Steven ran to the police and told them who he is.
The story mainly focused on the difficulties of being back with his natural family. Steven did not act in the manner that a normal boy would have, had he been raised his entire life by this family. He did some disturbing things, that in his past life had been normal in his circumstance. Neighbors and kids called him Faggot, and spoke about what a freak he was for loving the monster that stole him.
Anyhow, you should see the movie. It is very good, and I think it relates to the above quote.
Some years after the movie, Steven had married a girl from his neighborhood. They had a son. Steven was riding his motorcycle and crashed and died at the age of 21.
Freak,
I was perplexed too by the stmt in the article.
I could kick myself for not posting right away.
"Always and forever trying to change the meaning so that he can contradict and slam a few words without the meaning. The purpose is obviously to slam and "win and argument", without intent of learning and growing or to come to reality."
Freak, I tell you sincerely, whether you believe me or not, that I'm not trying to misrepresent you. No, I don't always repost your entire comment in order to respond to it, but I quote what I see as your essential point and then address THAT. If I'm inadvertently 'changing your meaning' before I address it, I apologize. Furthermore, I respectfully ask you to show me where I've done this so that I can correct my error and respond to exactly what you meant to say instead of to some misleadingly expurgated version of it.
Nagarjuna, can you, yourself, answer these questions? If so, I would love to hear your answers.
What's more, WHY is the person selfish enough to do it? If you desire to molest kids but you don't do it because you're not selfish enough to do it, why aren't you selfish enough but others are?
Hi Coonhound. Yes, incest, etc. will shame the families. And that is my entire point to standing by my believe that pedophiles do the things they do by choice, not illness. They hide it, they do it secretly, knowing that it is "wrong", knowing they need to keep it from the public because it is NOT ACCEPTABLE.
Maybe my response, should have included nag's response to his quoting your words for others to get the message out properly, as he used your words to convert stigmatizm back to the offenders, which are in no way related. In a sense using your words for his cause to once again protect a pedophile, when the words you used were once again turned around in meaning by nag. Well it may come out as a stigmatism of the people to feel what they feel of rapists and pedophiles, it is nonetheless nonacceptance of them, and totally unrelated to how people view the victims by stigmatism. If nag's views had any credence, he would not have to twist words to try to get his points across, yet he continues.
"I am so sorry, but here we are playing make-believe again."
I think YOU are the one "playing make-believe" in your thinking that anyone freely and blamefully chooses to abduct and sexually enslave young children.
"No disrespect, Nagarjuna."
None taken, Denise.
I understand that yes, child molesters are sick. But now we have to compare them to people with the flu that sneezed on you in the shopping mall?
That's not the comparison I'm making. A better, albeit imperfect, comparison would be someone with rabies attacking another because his condition made him unable to appreciate the wrongness of what he was doing. Yes, his disease made him inflict terrible harm on another, but we should still feel compassion for him even if we have to quarantine him or we decide to execute him because he's just too dangerous or expensive to keep around.
Denise, the story of Steven was not so much that he bonded, but that he did what any child would do to stay alive. He had no choice but to submit himself. In my eyes, he did not have homosexual relations or acts, but was subjected to them. He knew in his heart it was wrong... the end result of him removing the young boy later kidnapped before the same was done to him tells you, Steven knew it was wrong. He placed his own life in crucial danger of retaliation by doing this. He was a young man thinking his actions would end his life, and it was such an ugly life, he didn't really care anymore at that time. I truly hope God gave him one of his most special places in Heaven. There is no one person more deserving of the everlasting peace and love in Heaven that I have met or heard about yet.
"Nagarjuna, can you, yourself, answer these questions? If so, I would love to hear your answers.
What's more, WHY is the person selfish enough to do it? If you desire to molest kids but you don't do it because you're not selfish enough to do it, why aren't you selfish enough but others are?"
Denise, I would begin with the eminently reasonable supposition that there ARE reasons or causes for this abnormal and destructive selfishness whether or not we can discover a clear cut explanation. But I would surmise, for instance, that someone's upbringing combined with a genetic predisposition could make him more likely to act out destructive selfish desires than you or I would be. What doesn't make any sense to me is to simply say, "He did it because he was selfish." It seems to me, and I can't understand why it doesn't seem to everyone else, that there had to be some cause for that selfishness that we can't legitimately blame the person for.
Actually, that is wrong, Jaycee, no matter what results from her after this, is also deserving of everlasting peace and love of Heaven. I hope and pray she finds life on earth more peaceful and loving than what Steven did after his abduction.
"That's not the comparison I'm making. A better, albeit imperfect, comparison would be someone with rabies attacking another"
Nagarjuna, I just have to say this again. These persons do not make a habit of their crimes. And also, they would not pre-plan what they have done. Neither would they take steps to cover up their crimes, in order to carry them out for long periods of times. I do not even believe they would take the steps to cover their tracks at all. Even for the one time incident.
"I hope and pray she finds life on earth more peaceful and loving than what Steven did after his abduction."
As do we call, Freak. Not only that, but there may well have been another victim of Steven Stayner's abduction. There was his brother who became a killer of innocent women. It's possible that Steven's abduction helped to warp his brother's psyche to the point where he ended up doing the awful things he did.
Nag,
U still there.
"Nagarjuna, I just have to say this again. These persons do not make a habit of their crimes."
That's true. But the point of my comparison is that people can be caused by pathology or defect to commit premeditated crimes. If you have sick desires and no normal inhibitions stopping you from carrying them out, you will use whatever intelligence you have at your disposal to carry them out. But you did not freely and blamefully choose to have these desires or to lack the normal human inhibitions from acting them out. In other words, you don't wake up one morning with no sexual desires for children, a normal conscience, and a normal capacity to empathize with the suffering of others and say to yourself, "I choose sexually desire children and not to have a conscience or sense of empathy anymore," and voila!sexual desire for children and no more conscience or empathy.
"I do not think it is abnormal, but rather normal to THINK these thoughts."
I agree that more adults probably think them than society readily acknowledges, but I would disagree that most adults are obsessed with them and experience as strong a pull from them as people like Garrido seem to.
"as strong a pull". This statement above clearly means you believe it was harder for Garrido to refuse to follow than anyone else. Where do you get these understandings that Garrido had a stronger pull than any other person who had these thoughts cross their mind? This is your excuse of sickness? It is no stronger for one than the other, it is the will and the heart of each individual. Why is it that you have this understanding so much stronger than everyone else here Nag?
Nag wrote: "I hope and pray she finds life on earth more peaceful and loving than what Steven did after his abduction."
As do we call, Freak. Not only that, but there may well have been another victim of Steven Stayner's abduction. There was his brother who became a killer of innocent women. It's possible that Steven's abduction helped to warp his brother's psyche to the point where he ended up doing the awful things he did."
It is quite possible that any event in his life caused him to kill, or that he was just more prone to winning, getting even, being selfish. Once again, there is no proof of illness here either. I certainly do not see all families that have had children or siblings abducted and taken from them becoming killers. Do you ever use facts?
Nagarjuna,
Society stigmatizes sexual offenders bc their sexual crimes (incest, rape) are disgraceful.
A person that exploites another person, especially a minor, in order to FULFILL THEIR NEEDS and DESIRES is a disgraceful person. Hence, a label is attached when truth comes to light.
Are these unjust stigmas:
Sexual deviant, sexual offender, sexual predator?
We had a conversation going and I don't know what happened. I guess I'm not too good at this blogging thing. I have never "chatted" or spoke online before this.
YouAreSuchAFreak,
"Denise, the story of Steven was not so much that he bonded, but that he did what any child would do to stay alive. He had no choice but to submit himself."
You are absolutely correct. I apologize for wording the story incorrectly. I am glad you worded it the way you did. Your version is much more the reality. Thank you. I meant to say that this is how he grew up. In this environment. Anyhow, the movie clarifies all that I am trying to say. It did relate to the quote about how a person gets stigmatized, and also stigmatizes themselves, as Steven had done.
Nagarjuna, are you saying that if I steal from my boss, or if I shoplift a candy bar, I cannot be held accountable for it? You should feel sorry for me, because Sweet Tooth is an illness?
Very nicely put Coonhound.
I will only add, when these labels are placed on those deserving of them, it implies selfishness/those without compassion. They in turn are not deserving of the compassion of the compassionate public.
I am out of here. Need to catch up on work I didn't get done yet today. Have a nice evening Coonhound.
Sorry Denise. I meant no implication otherwise. I know your heart was in the right place, I always just think of the families of these predators may be lurking and reading.
Nag said: There was his brother who became a killer of innocent women
Whose brother? I did not know of this part.
Nagarjuna,
I can tell you first hand that "their" desires are very controlled. ..many, many choices they must make in order to succeed in victimizing their target. Its almost like a game to them.
They don't just pick anybody out of a crowd or a family.
Much thought is put into who they approach...and grooming comes first. It is a very controlled, manipulative, thought out process by the predator. There is some hit or miss at first while the offender learns how to gain the victims trust.
They prey on their target's, the victim, vulnerabilities to gain trust and then to gain control.
These people have more of a mind than you would have us here to believe. And they have much control over their actions.
Denise. I am sorry, my hurry to get out of here and to my work made me do it.... LOL I wrote:
Sorry Denise. I meant no implication otherwise. I know your heart was in the right place, I always just think of the families of these predators may be lurking and reading.
September 24, 2009 4:56 PM
I TRULY MEANT... always just think of hte families of these VICTIMS may be lurking and reading.
Have a good night Denise.
Bye freak.
lol Freak, I didnt even notice. I took it the way you meant it, anyhow.
Also, have you guys ever considered that, although the Garridos probably cannot read these comments themselves, that their friends may. Seems strange that anyone would actually be their friend, especially after this. But that Cheyvonne lady seems so shady. And I wouldnt be surprised if she knew about some of, if not almost everything, that Garrido was involved in. She seems, in my opinion, to be trying to cover herself, by begging Jaycee to tell the truth. Then trying to dissuade her from saying the truth. She gives me the heevy jeevies, to be honest.
I, of course, could be wrong. But these are just my observations about that seemingly trashy woman. :)
A sexual offender/predator is guilty of sexual abuse.
But the victim is often the one burdened by guilt.
So sad. That's what is truely, truely unjust and worthy of compassion and understanding.
Good night everyone. I have 3 sick kids here tonight. One being my 6 month old grandson. I have to keep them all in separate rooms, and I am running like crazy. The biggest demander is the tiniest of all 3. lol
Take care, stay safe, and God bless you all. Good night.
"Where do you get these understandings that Garrido had a stronger pull than any other person who had these thoughts cross their mind? This is your excuse of sickness? It is no stronger for one than the other,"
Freak, do you REALLY mean to suggest that YOU have a desire to abduct and sexually enslave young children of the opposite sex that is as strong as Phillip Garrido had? I don't think you mean to suggest that, do you? :-)
And do you REALLY mean to suggest that EVERYONE has the same degree of sexual desire for whatever they desire as everyone else does? You REALLY think there is no variation from one individual to the next? I've read that Garrido was absolutely obsessed with sex and pleasured himself compulsively. Do you REALLY think that he had the same libidinal strength as everyone else, but he simply "chose" to act his out more far more often and in much more harmful ways than most people do?
"it is the will and the heart of each individual."
And from WHERE does this "will of the heart" come? What causes someone to have it?
"Why is it that you have this understanding so much stronger than everyone else here Nag?"
Maybe it's because I have enough intelligence, although I don't claim to be any intellectual collossus, enough formal and informal education in psychology, neuropsychology, and philosophy, enough life experience observing the world around me, enough of a passion for fairness and justice, and enough of a disposition to diligently reflect upon and question what other people take for granted and find unquestionable, that I just may understand certain things that most people don't.
"It is quite possible that any event in his life caused him to kill, or that he was just more prone to winning, getting even, being selfish."
I said that his brother's abduction MAY have "helped" turn him into a murderer, I didn't categorically assert that it did. Perhaps, as you suggest, he WAS "more prone" to the things you say than most people are, and his brother's abduction was what pushed or contributed to pushing him over the edge.
And if he WAS "more prone" to this than most, WHY do you suppose he was? Do you think he woke up one morning with the same vulnerability to these qualities and behaviors as anyone else and simply "chose" to enlarge them? If so, WHY would he choose to do this?
"I certainly do not see all families that have had children or siblings abducted and taken from them becoming killers. Do you ever use facts?"
As I said once before, I see lots of people stung by bees and nothing happens except they're a little sore at the site of the sting. But some people get stung by a bee and they can die from it. Different people, depending on what genetic complement coupled with a, to use one of Denise favorite words, "bazillion" other interacting factors they bring to the table, can respond very differently to what appear to be very similar circumstances, whether it's a bee sting or an abducted sibling.
"A person that exploites another person, especially a minor, in order to FULFILL THEIR NEEDS and DESIRES is a disgraceful person. Hence, a label is attached when truth comes to light."
"I disagree, Coonhound. The way I see it, a person who does the terrible thing you describe ACTS disgracefully, but is NOT a "disgraceful person".
"Are these unjust stigmas:
Sexual deviant, sexual offender, sexual predator?"
Yes, I believe they are. HUMAN BEING who sickly commits sexual offenses or predation is more accurate.
We had a conversation going and I don't know what happened. I guess I'm not too good at this blogging thing. I have never "chatted" or spoke online before this.
What conversation did I drop the ball on, Coonhound? I didn't mean to leave anything hanging. Are you referring to your asking me about the "hole" of unfinished construction in Tahoe? I'm sorry. No, I don't remember seeing it when we were there, but I very well may have and either didn't notice it or don't remember it now.
Now I'm all mixed up. :-) Brenda asked me about Tahoe. I need to get something to eat and take a nap. :-) What were we talking about, Coonhound, that I inadvertently let drop?
"Nagarjuna, are you saying that if I steal from my boss, or if I shoplift a candy bar, I cannot be held accountable for it? You should feel sorry for me, because Sweet Tooth is an illness?"
"Held accountable"? How? I don't think you could legitimately be blamed for it? But I think it would be legitimate to reprimand or, in a serious enough case, even fire or arrest you for it. Not with vindictive malice, but out of intolerance for such untrustworthy or illegal behavior.
And, yes, i WOULD feel sorry for you for throwing away your means of livelihood or your freedom and having your employment or legal record stained by such a self-defeating act that something unfortunate must have caused.
"I will only add, when these labels are placed on those deserving of them, it implies selfishness/those without compassion. They in turn are not deserving of the compassion of the compassionate public."
That's right Freak. If someone is unfortunate enough to have a defective conscience or ability to feel compassion and they act accordingly, lets treat them in the same defective way they treated others. Let's be as unfair and unjust to them that they were to someone else.
Drop the ball? No, I wasn't meaning to suggest that, nag. We were discussing things and then the discussion really sped up. I think I dropped the ball, I have a hard time keeping up sometimes, I guess.
"Maybe my response, should have included nag's response to his quoting your words for others to get the message out properly, as he used your words to convert stigmatizm back to the offenders, which are in no way related. In a sense using your words for his cause to once again protect a pedophile, when the words you used were once again turned around in meaning by nag. Well it may come out as a stigmatism of the people to feel what they feel of rapists and pedophiles, it is nonetheless nonacceptance of them, and totally unrelated to how people view the victims by stigmatism. If nag's views had any credence, he would not have to twist words to try to get his points across, yet he continues."
What ARE you talking about, Freak? What did I improperly "twist"? My point was simply that it's wrong to unfairly stigmatize anyone for perpetrating or simply desiring to perpetrate sexual abuse they couldn't help but perpetrate or want to perpetrate at the time, or to unfairly stigmatize anyone who has been subject to such abuse. I suggested instead that we view and treat victims and perpetrators more appropriately and effectively.
There was no "twisting" going on here.
"These people have more of a mind than you would have us here to believe. And they have much control over their actions."
Coonhound, as I have tried to explain many times, I've never argued that they don't have "minds" that they use in very devious ways to get what they want. What I have repeatedly explained is that they are CAUSED to use their minds in these ways by factors that they did not control, choose, or cause.
After this, I am totally back to ignoring comments of the Nag. These are absolute rediculous comments made for the sake of antagonizing, are unresponsive and are pointless. Once again proven in his writings again here today.
As YourAreSuchAFreak made detailed factual statements and once again Nag using segments of them taking them out of context implies that YouAreSuchAFreak desires prepubecents. This one of two comments of Nag’s is very contratictory to another of his statements today and yet again clearly show his deception and “badwill”. First he writes to a partial quote:
"{I am not sure where you come up with the fact that a man desiring sex with anyone
younger, much less a child is abnormal."
Then responds:
“I don't desire to have sex with prepubescent females or males, and I suspect that
most adults don't. That's where I "come up" with the idea. If you DO have desires
for prepubescents, then I suppose I can understand your perplexity over my calling it
abnormal in a sick way.”
I think anyone can go back and read YouAreSuchAFreak’s statement and derive the intent of the “complete” statement of fact.
NOW COMES THE CONTRADICTION
Later at 3:29 p.m. Nag responds again from the same message of YouAreSuchAFreak and uses another section as a partial quote:
"I do not think it is abnormal, but rather normal to THINK these thoughts."
Then Nag responds:
“I agree that more adults probably think them than society readily acknowledges, but
I would disagree that most adults are obsessed with them and experience as strong a
pull from them as people like Garrido seem to.”
One really needs to consider, which it is Nag, is it that that YouAreSuchAFreak knowing that it is psychology studied and proven (a fact) that men have thoughts of sex with younger women is the norm and that knowledge now makes YouAreSuchAFreak one who desires prepubescents. A slanderous accusation of being a pedophile derived by simple fact giving.
Truthfully your next statement shows your callous slander to be nothing less when you later agreed that “more adults probably think them than society readily acknowledges” in relation to the fact that men thinking these thoughts were not abnormal, or out of the norm.
Albeit proposterous that YouAreSuchAFreak is in your contention is a pedophile. I think your constant partial quotes, turning and twisting the intent, and convenient attacks are pathetic way to stay in hiding. I do think you get to upset when people reach the truth with you, about yourself, why you defend these acts the way you do, and why you are here at all.
Hi boogie.
Hi boogie.
I think what I mean to say Nag is that you are so busy twisting words and defending pedophilia as a sickness, and attacking others when they come close to hitting home with you is because, you don't want to happen to you what many in here want when you are caught. I believe you know the ultimate day will come that you will be caught and you want to use the excuse of sickness made you do it so you are not sentenced to death.
Boogie, this is the reason I decided to leave. There is nothing more to discuss with such lame argument and comments.
How's your headache. LOL
You sure seem a lot stronger this evening.
Oh wow! My headache is much better. But I sure feel wore out. I will never again feel obligated to go to another party like that again. Why during the middle of the week when they know we all have business the next day. I am so glad James took my hearing this a.m.
I am working from home or S.B's tomorrow. Call my cell if you want to go.
Going back to read the Reno Gazette article and the Parole docs you sent me. BRB
Hi Coonhound. Sorry, missed that.
"I think anyone can go back and read YouAreSuchAFreak’s statement and derive the intent of the “complete” statement of fact."
Your point is well taken, Boogie. I should have said something like this instead, "I don't have desires for prepubescents, but I interpret you to be saying it's common for men to have them. And if you were to have them, I could understand your thinking they are more common than I think they are. On the other hand, if I don't have them and you don't either, on what basis do you conclude that they're as common as you suggest?" THAT would have been a better response.
"One really needs to consider, which it is Nag, is it that that YouAreSuchAFreak knowing that it is psychology studied and proven (a fact) that men have thoughts of sex with younger women is the norm and that knowledge now makes YouAreSuchAFreak one who desires prepubescents. A slanderous accusation of being a pedophile derived by simple fact giving."
Once again, Boogie, I did not accuse Freak of being a pedophile, unlike what Teresa and others have pointedly done to me with no complaints from you that I can recall. Second, I interpreted Freak to be saying that it's common for men to desire not only "younger women" but also little girls. If I misinterpreted him, he was and still is free to correct me. But it seems to me that this is what he must have meant when he seemed to be arguing that Garrido wassn't sick to desire Jaycee, because, after all, it's common for men to have these desires.
"Truthfully your next statement shows your callous slander to be nothing less when you later agreed that “more adults probably think them than society readily acknowledges” in relation to the fact that men thinking these thoughts were not abnormal, or out of the norm."
I don't see a "contradiction." One can agree that more men probably have these desires than society would like to admit and still believe, as I do, that having this desire and, especially, having it to the pronounced degree that Garrido appears to have had it, IS sickly abnormal.
"I think your constant partial quotes, turning and twisting the intent, and convenient attacks are pathetic way to stay in hiding. I do think you get to upset when people reach the truth with you, about yourself, why you defend these acts the way you do, and why you are here at all."
I have "twisted" nothing, Boogie, and I haven't accused anyone, including Freak, of being a pedophile. If he or you got the impression that I was, let me say very clearly here and now that I did not mean to imply it, and I do not believe that he's a pedophile. The only one I now see accusing anyone of being one, if one discounts Freak's seeming implication that I must be in order to argue what I have here on their behalf, is YOU accusing ME in no uncertain terms of being one. And you are wrong, sir, mam, or whatever you are.
I have a problem with this parole business. At the very end of the 19 pages, I believe are orders of the Parole Board upon his release from Federal Prison. Not sure, because he was in State Prison afterwards, but, the last order is:
"You shall reside and participate in a program of the Community Treatment Center as instructed until discharge by the Center Director, but no later than 120 days from admission"
Well, we know that didn't happen after his Federal time, because he went straight to the State prison, we know that didn't happen after State prison because he went straight to his mother's house, and we know he didn't do this after his 1993 sentence because he went back home with the ankle bracelet for 120 days per other pages of these parole documents. So, who then is making sure these pedophiles are doing as ordered by the Parole Board upon release?
I am not sure which sentence this order came down from either. I think it will only be known when all pages of this parole record are given to the public. I just feel like the ball has been dropped with this pedophile in so many ways, it is really scary to think about how many others are not held in obeyance and overseen properly.
"I believe you know the ultimate day will come that you will be caught and you want to use the excuse of sickness made you do it so you are not sentenced to death."
I am not a pedophile, Boogie, and your very blunt assertion to the contrary is not only false but reprehensible. I realize that someone as filled with venemous condemnation as you have expressed here for so many people just can't wrap your head and heart around the fact that someone who is not a pedophile or rapist could come to a place like this and consistently present strong arguments against hating and condemning sexual offenders, but that sadly reflects YOUR limitations and not mine, my friend.
I do have to go into the office tomorrow, but also plan to leave early and work from home. I'll give you a call just before I leave the office. For now, I have to get back to work. Talk to you tomorrow.
I think you scream to loud after making such abominable statements of others who were actually making sense, and who you purposely turned the words around on. You have your little game plan. Whatever it is, is dishonest and calculating to say the least. Why is left in view of the readers.
"I think you scream to loud after making such abominable statements of others who were actually making sense, and who you purposely turned the words around on.
Boogie, I'm not "screaming," and I have made no "abominable statements" about anyone, unlike you and others here. And any objective reader can see that for themselves.
Okay, YouAreSuchAFreak I am caught up on all the comments about the Parole docs, and all. I know it is not likely, due to when tracking bracelets or ankle bracelets came out, but I am hoping if and when the complete parole documents are given to the public, that they will be easier to make sense of, and I am hoping that he was ordered to wear these bracelets at earlier dates than in 1993. There is just know way a man with these wants and actions can do 11 years in prison and then hold off from 1988 when he was released to 1991 when he kidnapped Jaycee. He had to have been involved in other rapes and abductions. This just does not add up.
On one hand I am so sorry to even mention the other two girls met this fate, but on the other, I think it is so likely he had something to do with their disappearance and just know there has to be a way to catch him for these or anything else. It cannot just end here with the possibility that he may get out of prison yet again.
BrendaStar: I just wanted to say hello tonight. It has been a really busy week and again tonight I will not be watching anymore 9/11 documentaries or researching. Tonight I will just watch another relaxing movie and hope tomorrow night produces more time to get back to studying what happened on 9/11.
Take care and goodnight to all.
"It cannot just end here with the possibility that he may get out of prison yet again."
How can you seriously fear that Garrido is going to get back out again after what he's obviously done, even if he isn't charged with anything else?
Ooops, couldn't help from posting one bit of good news I just learned.
On CNN, Jaycee's attorney McGregor gave a statement explaining something not on the face of the CA Penal Codes for kidnapping. Rather than the highest proposed sentence of 11 years for kidnapping: McGregor says: McGregor also said that because of Phillip Garrido's previous criminal history, which includes a kidnapping and rape charge for which he was registered as a sex offender, Garrido would automatically receive a sentence of 25 years to life if he were found guilty on only one felony charge."
This sounds much more promising. Now, Mike, if you are still researching this, maybe we can find out if as many as 25 years can be given for each of the 29 charges, Garrido is so sure to be found guilty of. (still don't know if all 29 are federal charges).
Here's a very interesting article I just read:
http://www.mentalhealthamerica.net/go/position-statements/55
This article addresses much of what has been discussed here today.
Thank you Coonhound. This article is exactly what I have been expressing. It comes from psychologists who have been saying for years exactly what I and YouAreSuchAFreak have been expressing.
To no avail at the twisting of our words by Nag. Psychologists do not get up on witness stands and excuse pedophiles by sickness. They never have, not even when they are hired by defense counsel. They are hired to interview the rapist and pedophile and give an opinion as to their mental capacity, and/or truth of the pedophiles during interview by them. Never, have they got on a witness stand to say that an illness, if any found, caused them to rape and sodomize a woman or child. They do not want them in mental institutions because they are not ill. They want the lawmakers to reform the laws to keep them from the public, one way or another, and not impose upon the mental institutions to reform what is not reformable.
This next article is unbelievable. I'm speechless...
http://www.section21.m6.net/prf-activism.php
Boogie
,
Note in that first article that mental health advocates/professionals do not want mental illness stigmatized by classifying sexual predators as being mentally ill.
Again, Boogieman, what is psychology if not the scientific study of the CAUSES of human mentation and behavior, including criminal behavior? No, most who rape or molest are not mentally ill within the narrow guidelines specified by law or the DSM-IV. But there ARE causes for their behavior that extend beyond their blameful choosing or control, and any pyschologist who fails to recognize this disgraces his or her discipline, in my ever-so-humble opinion. :-)
Having said that, you seem to keep overlooking the fact that I have repeatedly advocated lifetime quarantine or even execution for the mosst egregious of sexual abuse crimes.
Yes, Coonhound, I can see how it would be disturbing to anyone. But the fact remains, these groups of pedophiles are growing more and more all the time. What amazes me, is that "supposed sick" individuals can work together as if it were a business, as thick as thieves to continue on with their selfish despicable acts. Is there truly any wonder why so many children are kidnapped and/or killed.
okay, I truly need to turn a good movie on and have some more positive thoughts flowing through my head before I fall asleep tonight. I must have said I was going to do that two hours ago. Goodnight Coonhound. It has been good reading you. :)
Boogie, I thought you said you were going to get away also. We have become possessed. See you tomorrow.
Yes, me too. I must rid my mind of this before I fall asleep.
Bye
I know, but the movie I picked was suppose to be about two sisters coming close after their mother was killed. Turns out the movie was about their mother being murdered, and the two sisters trying to understand why one would want the killer released on bail and the other not. I ended up running it to the end to see what in the heck was happening. The one who wanted to let the man out of prison was feeling guilty because she made the actual killer (there were two) chase her and she led him to his death in quick sand.
Ok. I have decided. Lets all, everyone in this room, take a moment to feel sorry for the Garridos. :( boo hoo. I feel so sorry for them to be so sick :( Such a shame for them. :(
Ok, now lets get to frying them before they have a chance to escape :)
Is this satisfactory for you, Nag, our friend? :)
Moral of the story, she was feeling guilty because she never had told anyone that she did this purposely and never discussed it with anyone, so she spent her life feeling guilty. She was only 7 or 8 when this happened, and at this time in her late 30s. So, I started reading the news instead and ended back up here.
I meant everyone in this blog. Although this feels more like a chatroom to me now. Anyhow, I had to wake up with the baby. He just went back to sleep, so I am also. Good night everyone.
LOL Denise.
Goodnight everyone. I am going to sleep to good music instead tonight!
Just one more thing..... LOL
Nag, if you are in favor of lifetime incarceration. Fine, you pay to feed, shelter, clothe and guard the pedophiles. I don't want to. They do not deserve my hard earned money. I would rather take care of those who have good hearts and are unable to provide for themselves for whatever real reasons impoverished them.
.I would rather take care of those who have good hearts and are unable to provide for themselves for whatever real reasons impoverished them..
ฺIt's s shame that a lot of people never bother to ask themselves wh some people have good hearts and some don't. I also wonder how those who hate pedophiles and what to kill them rather than allow them to stay in prison reconcile this with their Christian faith.
Not very well, I'm afraid.
Goodnight, all.
And it saddens me, Denise, to see you joke about "frying" people.
That is your testament on how well you listen. Some people just don't have good hearts because they are selfish. It's all about them and what they want. I am perfectly accountable to MY CHRISTIAN faith. I do know there is a Satan, and I do know how to tell the difference, and I know I am not to subject myself to him, his wicked ways, nor his lies. I most certainly do not take the words of an atheist to tell me how to be a Christian, or guilt me into allowing people to tell me I must let them live and continually destroy innocent lives of decent people.
Denise I think you are perfectly normal to feel the way you do.
tommy, are you kidding me? you're sticking up for this guy? even if he got raped in the ass repeatedly and sent to jail for life, that would not make up in any way shape or form for what he has done. the years of life he has taken away from jaycee lee dugard are some of the most important years in a person's life and the whole time he had her he fathered her children. it's just wrong on so many levels. the fact already have came out buddy. we all know he did it.
...Nothing can withstand the power of the human will if it is willing to stake its very existence to the extent of its purpose. ~ Benjamin Disraeli
Just when I thought the blog had all but died! There are at least a hundred new messages.
Boogie, I wanted to respond to this comment of yours:
"Fine, you pay to feed, shelter, clothe and guard the pedophiles. I don't want to. They do not deserve my hard earned money."
From everything I have read, it is cheaper to pay for them than it is to give them the death penalty and go through the appeals process. The appeals process is purposefully designed to be slow and expensive in case someone is innocent. If we didn't have those checks in place, more innocent people would be executed.
On a different note, I don't have much time this weekend, so posting will be light!
P.S. Hello to everyone! Tara, are you still around? I miss you!
Goblinbee. Garrido admitted he kidnapped Jaycee, he admitted the 2 girls were his. If he were to get sentenced to death the sentence would not take long to come. After trial and sentencing, there is nothing left to appeal. The Appeals are what take so long.
Aside from this, we already know he will not get the death penalty. As the laws are now, you cannot give the death penalty for rape and kidnapping as a sentence in the United States. No, this terribly disgusting crime that most feel is as bad or worse than murder gets a sentence of one to six years in the United States. There has been much discussion regarding needing changes of the laws regarding this. From the inception, the day Garrido was busted, since the inception of the first comment on this blog, people want this man and other like him put down. This message is clear not only from discussion in this blog, but writings in response to almost every single article written about this man on the internet.
The point here is, people want the laws changed, the recidivism rate tell us nothing less than we are asking to have our women and children raped if we do nothing about the current laws.
Aside from this, I am most certainly not giving up on the idea that Jaycee was not his only victim since Garrido was released. Where are the others? Once found, the death penalty will be given. I hope and pray every single day the FBI and police find the very clues they need to put an end to this man.
Back to work. No more comments until my work is done for the day.
I have to say that I agree with the death penalty for violent rape and pedophile crimes against children here. I get so tired and frustrated that these men are arrested time and time again, and the victims are visited by us when they are released. The victims have not healed, they are scared and petrified and we can do nothing for them. It is not a pretty site to see on what is becoming nearly a daily basis. Something most certainly does need to be changed. Prison is most definitely something that has proven to change anything. What I hear is Schwartzenager (spelling?) wants to give early release to thousands of convicts right now. Anyone want to venture a guess how many of these men will be pedophiles put back out on the streets?
William Ewart Gladstone: "As Disraeli lived, so he died — all display, without reality or genuineness."
Wasn't this the same Disraeli that wrote Sybil?
Goodmorning Coonhond. The Psych article on mental health america was interesting. May I ask what key words you used to find it. Thank u.
I believe the book is called
Sybil, or the Two Nations
He wrote it in 1840. A silient movie film was made in the early 1920's called, Sybil.
The book is a novel with a political agenda to expose the horrid working conditions of the english people in his time.
Benjamin Disraeli:
http://www.britannia.com/bios/disraeli.html
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