During the month of July 2009 JM's Enterprises, 1215 Willow Pass Road * Pittsburg CA,(925) 439-8118 was the host to a powerful demonstration, the Creator has given me the ability to speak in the tongue of angels in order to provide a wake-up call that will in time include the salvation of the entire world.
You too can witness what the world believe's is impossible to produce! email: godsdesire@rocketmail.com. DON'T MISS OUT!
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Sorry, I posted your ID incorrectly
It is okay Tara. I am not affected by name calling and incomplete and unfounded statements.
"A complete mis-representation of any of the posts that I have made..."
And of mine too, Tara.
"But is it ALSO possible that you're just offering a rationalization..."
(Nagarjuna)
It could be. Although it feels more like an exploration of ideas to me.
"But I have the same compassion for him as I would have for a rabid dog."
Denise, do you not, as a Christian, believe that human beings, no matter how much they sin or do evil, are MORE than rabid dogs? And do you not also believe that even Phillip Garrido is endowed with an immortal soul that deserves as long a time as God allows to find redemption?
I'm not trying to kindle another heated argument with you or to cast any aspersions on the sincerity of your Christian faith. I don't even expect you to publicly or privately address my question. But I do hope you'll consider it. And if you attend a church, perhaps you can ask your pastor about all of this. And if you discover that your faith teaches a more merciful and compassionate outlook toward the Phillip Garridos of this world, maybe you can strive to cultivate it within yourself and share it with others.
Bullshit
boogiemanhater
"It is okay Tara. I am not affected by name calling and incomplete and unfounded statements."
Well not much different between boogiemanhater and boogiemanhunter.
One can easily morph into the other.
What "incomplete and unfounded statements." are you referring to ?
I did re-post in full one of your posts that you requested me to do.
"This is the crux of the matter right here, isn't it? This is what Nagarjuna has been arguing."
Absolutely, positively! :-)
"Nagarjuna, you mentioned bringing our emotions into line with our higher thinking. It seems like probably a very long, slow process."
Yes, Goblinbee.
I did not ever ask you to repeat something, or repost anything to me Tara. I am really not interested in playing your game. That is plain and obvious. Why would I ever ask you to repeat anything? Games people play.
boogiemanhater
Your complete post @ 12.28
"Tara, I don't have time to find that statement. If you find it, quote and read the entire statement. (Partial quotes are not a fair way to address anything in any conversation as proven time and time again in this blog). I believe my point was more to the point that if the US does not do anything about it, which does not appear that they are, I do not want to live here when the number of missing children multiplies by 3 within the next few years. There are some places that are quite nicer places to live than the USA and to which it appears will become so much worse. I prefer to live my own life, which the USA promised, but does not deliver while they allow these dangers to infiltrate us and harm us."
LOL Maybe you should learn to read. Check again.
"Maybe this contradiction even serves an evolutionary purpose."
(myself)
"Perhaps, although I confess that I see no "evolutionary" or any other kind of positive "purpose" in it."
(Nagarjuna)
I don't know that we have to see a purpose to think it must have one. It's back to your argument of the proof being in the pudding. Certain traits or characteristics give slight advantages to an organism in a particular place or time, causing it to succeed in the gene pool. Are humans that lust after revenge the norm? If so, that would seem to be be a characteristic that had conferred some advantage on us.
Traits die out when they no longer serve us as a species.
Thank you Tara for your comment Yes i think that quite a few crimes are a result of how we were treated by our mothers and fathers as children.. I think these two roles in a child's life is imperative.. As well as I thank you for your link to that other story very interesting..
"Traits die out when they no longer serve us as a species."
Now that is the smartest comment I have heard on this blog yet!
YouAreSuchAFreak, It was nowhere near sarcasm. My Gosh. It was a legitimate offer to live in beautiful Lima, Peru. Not that I truly expected you to take me up on it, though. And the wages I said, are realistic amounts. You said you would like to retire to a different country. And Peru is a beautiful place with beautiful people. Wages ARE low, but so is the cost of living. I dont think anyone ever considers Peru, when planning their vacations, and they are missing out on so much. So, basically, I was just getting a "shot out" to a country that I love so much. Some positive publicity, I guess. Sorry if you misunderstood me or I offended you.
"It could be. Although it feels more like an exploration of ideas to me."
Goblinbee, it could be one or the other, or both. But whether or not exploration was part of the original motivation, it can be the result. And may that exploration lead all who are willing to undertake it to greater wisdom and to a way of life that more fully reflects that wisdom.
YouAreSuchAFreak,
Ted Bundy Counseled victims of Rape and violent crimes and home abuse ect. That's a very scary thought. As well as is Nancy Garrido being a nurse, i think.. How can one help someone else and at the same time hurt someone else? That i just dont understand.
YouAreSuchAFreak, I did not mention anything about you working there, either, by the way. And I really do not understand why the "again" after the word sarcasm in your statement. But I will leave that in peace.
"Traits die out when they no longer serve us as a species." Goblinbee)
Like the "trait" of having an appendix? :-)
Seriously though, I understand what you're saying. Revenge probably IS a sociobiological and evolutionarily advantageous product of natural selection. The question is, Ddo we now need it or need it in the rawer forms of the past now, or have we now reached a point where we can and should transcend or at least sublimate our desire and quest for revenge?
"This is the crux of the matter right here, isn't it? This is what Nagarjuna has been arguing. It does seem so true. I wonder why it is that I believe this and yet still cannot find a drop of compassion in me."
Goblinbee, although this may not be what Nagarjuna agrees with exactly, do you think maybe you can feel the sorrow and sadness FOR Garrido, that you would feel for a rabid dog that you love?
I just had an image of all of us running from some monster that was turning everyone into zombies. As we run together, we see people all around us being caught by the monster and turning to zombies. OH MY GOSH!! THOSE POOR SOULS. HOW SAD, KEEP RUNNING, IF THEY COME NEAR YOU, STOP THEM. You turn around and OH NO! :( Nagarjuna, no not Nagarjuna, IT WAS TARA!, SHE IS A ZOMBIE NOW. :( ONE OF OUR OWN GROUP HAS BEEN TURNED INTO A MONSTER. We love her, and we hate that it happened to her, but now she is dangerous to us.
Did that make sense? Ok, Yes. Nagarjuna DID make me crazy. lol Lets blame him. lol
"And do you not also believe that even Phillip Garrido is endowed with an immortal soul that deserves as long a time as God allows to find redemption?'
I am so, so, very sorry, Nagarjuna my friend. But I cannot stray from the thoughts that my son's mother WAS NOT GRANTED the time to find redemption. I am sorry. I cannot agree.
Denise, I like your "zombie analogy." :-) I agree that if a human being were literally turned into a mindless zombie "monster" who threatened us with imminent death or zombiehood, we wouldn't have the luxury or even the need to feel compassion for her.
But I don't see Phillip Garrido as a mindless zombie monster threatening us, but as a sentient HUMAN BEING who is now a suffering victim of his own pathology and who poses no imminent threat to our well-being. He is locked away. He will never get out. So we can regard him with the same compassion we would feel for any blameless victim and treat him humanely without endangering ourselves.
Speaking of the word evolution. I have a question. If we started out as little germs, then got bigger, then sprouted tails, then skin, gills, legs, etc. Then evolved out of the sea, into monkeys, then we dropped the hair, started standing upright, etc. etc.
Those are alot of changes to steadily take place. So here is my question. Why did evolution in us stop? I would think that we should be sprouting wings by now, or beginnings of them at least, or antennaes, or something. Nagarjunas horns do not count. lol I am sorry, Nagarjuna, I am so kidding about that.
"I am so, so, very sorry, Nagarjuna my friend. But I cannot stray from the thoughts that my son's mother WAS NOT GRANTED the time to find redemption. I am sorry. I cannot agree."
So, we should do the same cosmic injustice to one who murders as he has done to the person he murdered? Two terrible wrongs DO make a right, and your Christian faith teaches this?
Actually Nagarjuna, as I read your last comment, I honestly decided that I have more compassion for Tara the zombie, than I do for Garrido.
I pictured having to catch Tara, and putting her in a cage, and the sadness in her foam covered face.
Then I look up, and I see in red, "Something Brand New Has Taken Place!" and I think about Percy sitting behind bars with other criminals, saying how he is glad he did what he did, and he would do it again.
"Let us just spend $165,000 a year to support his criminal ass, so we can keep letting individuals in our communities go hungry and without medical attention."
If someone were the innocent carrier of an incurable and virulent disease that has blamelessly infected and killed others but could be prevented from threatening anyone else if the carrier were humanely kept quarantined, are you saying that you'd want him to be put to death because you wouldn't want to spend the money required to allow him to live?
That is not a relevant question so I will not answer, but to say, there is no "disease", "illness", "sickness" involved anywhere here. Just one selfish bastard whose want in life was more important to him than anything or anyone else. Not a sickness.
As I said before, please do not question my relationship with God, or my faith. I have also asked before that you do not start a debate with me about religion. As I have never studied the Bible, and I do not even go to any particular Church. I have read the Bible from front to back once, but I did not understand it all. It was a great story though. Took me 9 months to read it. :)
As far as my religion teaching me anything, Nagarjuna. I do not really have a religion. And I also have no idea what God truly would want of any of us on certain issues. I do what I can to live my life by the Ten Commandments. I do not know what God would want in this situation, Nagarjuna. Even if I studied the Bible faithfully every day, and was in Church 5 times a week, I would not know exactly what God would want. I do not believe any human can say they know, and be 100% correct. Because how do we know what is the real truth?
"Denise, I like your "zombie analogy." :-) I agree that if a human being were literally turned into a mindless zombie "monster" who threatened us with imminent death or zombiehood, we wouldn't have the luxury or even the need to feel compassion for her."
(Nagarjuna)
Denise, great zombie analogy. Nagarjuna, I interpreted it differently than you did. I thought Denise was saying she WOULD feel compassion for a friend turned into a zombie. I thought it was one way Denise was trying to help me find a little compassion for Garrido, if I could imagine him as being someone I cared about who was completely at the mercy of their transformation or affliction.
"That is not a relevant question so I will not answer, but to say, there is no "disease", "illness", "sickness" involved anywhere here."
Let's set aside, for the moment, our consideration of whether Garrido was sick and just deal with the hypothetical I presented. Would you be willing to have society support THAT person?
ç
How many people lives there? I think I must have once a look in the internet if I found something.
Peru sounds lovely and extremely spiritual
My wish is to adopt one children from Peru, I know, you cannot save all the world, but you can save one life and this is gold!
No, I will not hypothesize this here. It is neither here nor there and I will not be drawn into this type of circus display. Gariddo and his like is the topic. It is not an illness, sickness, defect, or anything less that the person wanting for themselves. Everyone has this trait to one extent or another. To what extent a person chooses to act on it that trait, is his/her decision. In this case, Gariddo is a criminal of which is not deserving of compassion. He is not as you say "blameless", and is certainly not a "victim" in any of this.
Nagarjuna, I have asked you before about your personal experience with violent crimes. And you said thankfully, you have never had a violent crime happen to you or a loved one. That is a true blessing.
But now I want to ask you a question along those same lines.
How many violent criminals have you known? How many have you spent time with and talked to?
I am not sure if there is a difference in truly understanding a lunatic from speaking with them on a professional level and speaking to them on a personal level, and living with them and around them.
But if you have spoken to violent crazies, was it on professional, personal, or both levels.
Sunny, it is another purpose I would like to move elsewhere. People do not have to come to the USA for a better life, but the USA citizens can take a better life to others as well.
Hello Sunny, do you have your passport ready? lol
lol to the person that feels that nobody else should have the right to invade their country, but feels they would be "blessing" another country with an invasion of their own presence. HAHA!! I have tears from laughter, right now. How sad. lol
Denise: I thought you came and apologized for your lashing out at everyone last night. As a matter of fact I have applied to work at the Embassy in the Philippines so that I could help out. Do you really have a problem with this, or are you just being small and rude?
"lol to the person that feels that nobody else should have the right to invade their country, but feels they would be "blessing" another country with an invasion of their own presence."
Ohmygod, Denise, amen!
Denise--
"As I said before, please do not question my relationship with God, or my faith."
I'm sorry to say this, Denise, but if I think there is a conflict between Christianity and the opinions you express here, I will mention it, because I think it's a "relevant" consideration.
I'd guess that there are many Christians posting or lurking here who feel the way you do or far worse about Garrido, and I DO believe that this conflicts with the teachings and spirit of the Christian faith.
I don't question you in order to make you feel bad or to suggest that your faith is insincere. I believe that you believe in God and are trying to serve Him as best you can, and that you aren't necessarily even professing to be Christian. But that doesn't mean that Christians who express your or much more extreme views about Garrido are in concert with the teachings of their faith.
"I would not know exactly what God would want. I do not believe any human can say they know, and be 100% correct. Because how do we know what is the real truth?"
I hope you'll correct me if I'm wrong, Denise, but what I hear you saying is that because your efforts to understand the Bible, the teachings of Christianity, and the demands and desires of God for us human beings have met with so little success, you're not even going to try to learn more about these things.
You don't have to comment on this if you'd rather not. If I have anything further to say about a possible conflict between Christian and other religious teachings and the attitudes expressed here toward Garrido, I'll try my best not to make it a personal issue with you.
Sunny, Lima is huge and very populated. And it is a lovely place, filled with beautiful people. I do not know why your interest so much in Peru, exactly. But there are orphans in need of families everywhere.
Sunny, may I ask where you were born? And do you speak spanish? I think that if you are going to adopt a child from any country, you should have extensive knowledge of their country, their culture, their people, and also their native language. Even though you will be raising them in your lifestyle. I think it is important for them to know their background.
Also, I do not see Peru as having a large amount of orphans, although my fiance did show me a type of group home where they stayed. I believe Peruvians are very close-knit families, and take care of their own, and nursing homes for old folks do not exist as they are unnecessary. As far as I know, anyhow.
You guys are really sick. Listen to yourselves. You will defend a pedophile and then turn the thought of someone going to another country to help into this. You are really truly sorry excuses of human beings. The truth is the Philippines loves Americans. They have wanted for years to become part of America. The appreciate us when we go because when we do, we bring money, which helps their society immensely. Many live in crates and boxes on the side of the road. Have it your way. Then live with yourselves.
"Why did evolution in us stop?" (Denise)
I think biologists would say that it hasn't stopped and that we are still evolving, but in ways too slow for us to perceive over the comparatively short time that our species has been around. Check back in a few million years and see what we've become. :-)
Oops! Sorry, TheBoogieManHater. I think I just needed more context for your first comment.
Americans, sadly, are now victims who have turned into perpetrators. Indeed, since September 2001, the war on terror has claimed more innocent victims than those terrorist attacks.War and occupation create innocent victims. We count the body bags of American soldiers; there have been more than 1200 in Iraq. The rest of the world also looks at the Iraqis who get killed daily. There have been 15 times more,Some were trying to kill our soldiers; far too many were totally innocent, including many women and children
I am not being small nor rude, and I would like to ask you to THINK about what you have said, but I think that word is not very popular in here.
But honestly, can you really look at what I said, and really look at how you feel, please?
I am in no way categorizing you on the same level as Garrido, but if you think about it. Americans think they are so special, and are entitled to anything on this Earth. But nobody else should be entitled to the same freedoms that we have, because they are not as special as Americans. And to me, that seems so similar to YOUR own exact description of Garridos and criminals like him. Selfish.
I tell you what Denise, you go to LIMA, and I'll continue on with waiting for an answer to my application and process. I know I am wanted in the Philippines, so your argument is senseless. You be happy with what you choose to do, and I'll be happy with what I choose to do. There doesn't need to be a judgment. What the hell is your problem?
"Americans think they are so special, and are entitled to anything on this Earth"
Looking from the outside in, I would say that a lot of UK citizens would agree with that statement
What, does it really take chit chat gossiping in your little email ring to build up on your bitchiness. LOL. Small minds think alike. Need that support do ya!
If you're a real American that is, an American Indian you're lucky to be alive. For whether he really believed it or not, the white man has acted on the principle that "The only good Indian is a dead one". This was certainly one of the foundation stones upon which the white European invaders of North America and their descendants established and built the republic of the U.S.A
The true antidote to racism is liberty. Liberty means having a limited, constitutional government devoted to the protection of individual rights rather than group claims. Liberty means free-market capitalism, which rewards individual achievement and competence, not skin color, gender, or ethnicity.
"Like the "trait" of having an appendix?"
Just give it time, sir! These processes are S - L - O - W!
"Revenge probably IS a sociobiological and evolutionarily advantageous product of natural selection."
I don't think it works this way--that traits are the "products" of natural selection. Traits confer advantages, and so the organisms harboring those traits go on to flourish.
"The question is, do we now need it or need it in the rawer forms of the past now, or have we now reached a point where we can and should transcend or at least sublimate our desire and quest for revenge?"
This was an idea I had intended to bring up in the other comment--that this trait could quite possibly have outlived its usefulness. But that the shedding of traits is a slow one.
But, at any given time, there are always individulas who show more or less of a trait anyway -- the range can be from zero all the way to toxic levels!
Then why do you want to come to America? Maybe you should keep those kind of thoughts to yourself if you don't want Immigration to find out. That is if you are legally trying to come to the USA.
BoogieManHater, I want you to know this. My fiance is very happy in his country. Honestly, he is. He doesnt even want to live in the USA. The only reason that we would try to bring him here, is for my sons' educations. We also needed him to have a visa, in order that he could accompany me each time I wanted to return home for visits.
I have described Lima so much to Sunny already, and I do not think I gave a vision of squalor and extreme poverty. I even said before that the only danger I could see in Lima would be to get run over by a taxi.
Some countries do not need to be saved by the All Mighty America, you know. Some countries are very proud, even though an outsider could not imagine why. Peru, I believe, is a third world country. But it is in a far better situation than we are. Peruvians are very proud people, and my fiance never wants to leave his beautiful home. To me, for us to be able to step foot in anyone else's soil is a privilege.
It makes me angry that I can buy an airplane ticket 5 minutes from now, and be in Peru in about 30 or 40 hours from now. But we had to pay tons of money and beg forever, and he still has not been ALLOWED here. Has anyone heard the Tesla song "Signs"? This topic always reminds me of that song.
Sunny, please tell me where you are from. I do not recall anyone here saying they would like to come to America. Actually, me and sunny want to move to Peru. Tara is happy in the UK. Nagarjuna already lives in Paradise, lol. Goblinbee might visit me and sunny some day, but she has to educate the west coast of little people. And YouAreSuchAFreak, is not sure where to, but would also like to exit the USA, the same as you.
"No, I will not hypothesize this here."
As you wish. Would anyone else care to answer my question. Or do you all elect to take the easy way out? :-)
"It is not an illness, sickness, defect, or anything less that the person wanting for themselves."
So, if a person "wants for himself" to eat feces, have sex with corpses, or poke his eyes out, that is not an illness, sickness, or defect but just selfish desire that he freely chooses to have or can freely choose not to have?
"To what extent a person chooses to act on it that trait, is his/her decision."
But why do some choose to "act on it" and others don't?
"Gariddo is a criminal of which is not deserving of compassion. He is not as you say "blameless", and is certainly not a "victim" in any of this."
He's blameless if what I've suggested is true and he had a sick desire to sexually enslave young females and was afflicted by a defective conscience and capacity for empathy which, had they not been lacking, might have inhibited him from acting out his sick desire.
I don't expect you to keep going round and round with me on this, Boogie, or to answer the questions I've posed. I respect you even though I disagree with you and even if you don't respect me.
However, I hope that if we do continue this discussion, we can at least do it with civility rather than insults.
Denise: It is very apparent there is no goodwill in your past statements. I do not want to discuss your and your boyfriend's problems. I do not want to discuss Sunny's problem. People tried to help you yesterday on this if I remember right and you attacked them. I am not sure what goes on with you, maybe you are schizophrenic, maybe you are just gossiping and forming opinions in your emails. I don't care. You have purposely tried to offend me on several occasions. I have no use nor want to talk to you, help you, guide you, instruct you. for no other reason than, you are noone I could ever trust to be friends with and many of your comments are very off the wall abnormal.
"People tried to help you yesterday on this if I remember right and you attacked them."
They did? Help me with what? I attacked nobody.
What you did, was confused mine and sunnys conversation, told her that if SHE had any right to bring HER fiance here, he would be here. When in fact, it was ME that has the fiance. Then you went even further to twist more of what we were saying to each other, and make more inane comments that did not even make sense. And you also incorrectly stated that I am here for a pity party.
Nag, your views are insulting. I don't know how many people have told you this and argued this with you. You still want to press it. So, if you get or feel insulted, I don't know why it would even bother you. It doesn't bother you to keep trying to cram it down everyone's throat and insulting them, the majority view.
TheBoogieManHater said...
Then why do you want to come to America? Maybe you should keep those kind of thoughts to yourself if you don't want Immigration to find out. That is if you are legally trying to come to the USA.
Who are you talking to here, please?
"Nagarjuna, I interpreted it differently than you did. I thought Denise was saying she WOULD feel compassion for a friend turned into a zombie. I thought it was one way Denise was trying to help me find a little compassion for Garrido, if I could imagine him as being someone I cared about who was completely at the mercy of their transformation or affliction."
Goblinbee, I read your comment and then reread Denise's comment, and I think your take on it was better than mine. I would add only that I'd feel or try to feel even more compassion for a sentient Garrido than I would for a zombie who has been irrevocably dehumanized into a mindless monster.
"I don't think it works this way--that traits are the "products" of natural selection. Traits confer advantages, and so the organisms harboring those traits go on to flourish."
It's been decades since I studied basic biology, so correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought what you've just described IS "natural selection."
Goblinbee, "I thought it was one way Denise was trying to help me find a little compassion for Garrido, if I could imagine him as being someone I cared about who was completely at the mercy of their transformation or affliction."
It was. Exactly.
Nagarjuna: "I would add only that I'd feel or try to feel even more compassion for a sentient Garrido than I would for a zombie who has been irrevocably dehumanized into a mindless monster."
I was actually trying to explain it in a way, that the zombie was symbolizing Garrido. But as a person that we know and love personally.
Nagarjuna, did you answer my question about how many violent criminals you have known and spoke with, on a personal or professional basis? If you meant to ignore the question, I will understand. I wont ask again. Wasnt sure if you just missed it.
boogiemanhater
"The truth is the Philippines loves Americans. They have wanted for years to become part of America. The appreciate us when we go because when we do, we bring money, which helps their society immensely"
And why exactly are the Americans there ?
http://www.bulatlat.com/main/2009/08/28/us-troops-in-philippines-america-pursues-expansionism-protects-economic-interests/
Are you really so insular to not realise how some non Americans view the USA ?
Or do you just not care ?
"
okay now i could go on, and on, and on, and on........ about all of this stuff:
"Americans, sadly, are now victims who have turned into perpetrators. Indeed, since September 2001, the war on terror has claimed more innocent victims than those terrorist attacks.War and occupation create innocent victims. We count the body bags of American soldiers; there have been more than 1200 in Iraq. The rest of the world also looks at the Iraqis who get killed daily. There have been 15 times more,Some were trying to kill our soldiers; far too many were totally innocent, including many women and children"
please do not classify ALL Americans in raging a war on terror against you. Our dumb ass president that I sure DIDNT vote for put us there its the same in wherever country your from your government is making these decisions NOT us as common people! Your a victim of circumstance. We vote and try to change things but sometimes guess what our vote didnt go the way we wanted it to. Now I could go on and on about the corruption in government but know this NOT all of us are ignorant!!!! We do see things for what they really are. I for one would never wage a war on a word , second I know its about oil and many other corrupt things, I am in no way shape or form a perpetrator!!!!! I would NEVER shoot an innocent civilian and I personally would never in list in any of our armed forces (not that I do not respect people that do, I do!) but I personally am not here on this earth for that! I am too damn passionate of a person and I have never believed we were doing the right thing! Classifying us all in one group like that is just ridiculous... So now im American so im a perpetrator.. You dont think that people over here want to scream and change this too, we are trying...and to even suggest that am behind being over there and that Ive been a perpetrator now since 2001 c'mon you have to know in your heart that your blaming all of us for an administration that should have been impeached for the lies they have told to the american people and treated just like their so called terrorist themselves!!!
"Nag, your views are insulting."
I'm sorry you feel insulted, Boogie. It's not my intent to insult anyone. And I don't understand how my trying, in the ways that I have today, to answer the comments and questions you're still addressing to me constitutes trying to "cram" my admittedly unconventional views down your or anyone else's throat.
"So, if you get or feel insulted, I don't know why it would even bother you."
I've already said that I don't expect you to keep discussing these matters with me. What's more, I certainly can't force you to do it. I just said that if you choose to keep doing it, I think it would be a lot nicer for all of us if we could do it with civility. If you disagree, be as uncivil as you wish.
"It's been decades since I studied basic biology, so correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought what you've just described IS "natural selection.""
Yes, what I've described is my take on natural selection.
You know Tara, you don't know what in the hell you are talking about. Don't even ask me to go there with you. That is about the most stupid thing I ever heard. You are just trying to antagonize. Let me let you in on a little secret. I am not antagonized. You are nothing that worries any thought I have.
Denise--
I saw that question and intended to answer it but got sidetracked by some other questions and answers first. Thanks for reminding me of it. I will answer it soon.
brendastar
It's nice to see we share the same views about George W Bush
Tara,
Oh we do!!
hey everyone guess what 9/11 was a lie! Research it.
boogiemanhater
"You are nothing that worries any thought I have."
So why get so upset about my posting ?
Nag!!!! Honestly. What in the world is left to discuss in this matter. You have said your opinion time and time again. Over and over and over. What good is it doing. Other than to keep argument going? Tell me that please. If you truly want to get your point across, there are places all over the internet who have not heard it yet. So that is not the problem here, as you remain here. What is it that you are trying to do other than CONTROL how others feel. You are browbeating. It is going nowhere.
"I would add only that I'd feel or try to feel even more compassion for a sentient Garrido than I would for a zombie who has been irrevocably dehumanized into a mindless monster."
I took it more to mean that the zombie would still in some way BE my friend, that it would be hard for me to let go of the idea that it was someone I knew and loved. And, thus, the compassion. The mental exercise of this particular analogy has been useful for me.
Denise, I haven't spoken with or gotten to know on a personal basis any "violent crazies."
BrendaStar, I could be wrong, but I think that sunny was actually copying and pasting those particular passages.
I have asked Sunny where they are from. But received no answer. I actually, from the start, have always thought sunny lives in the USA. But I wasnt sure.
"Sunny" posted it and I had to state what i thought about that comment. So.... I did. ;)
BrendaStar. I don't know which lies or what lies you are referring to, but I would like to. I have two nephews that have been forced to fight for the USA. I am behind them 100% because they are my nephews and I want them to live. But, I get so damn angry that our government has there hands in so much, I really don't know what is the truth and what was a lie anymore. I do know, that we should not have just laid down to die and let them come back at us again after 9/11 however.
Ah, Nagarjuna. I think it is very important that you have NOT lived with, or hung out, or even spoken with actual violent criminals.
Even more important, maybe, that you have not seen the progression from normal human being to monster with your own eyes, as I have.
Maybe the fact that I do know violent criminals, and their ways, their selfishness, and their sickness. Not to mention their ways, while having one of their "family" moments. But also, the things that brought them to these points, makes a big difference. Do you agree?
Denise, I believe that is where all your sarcasm has come from. You need to read everything before you get so snippy. Why don't you go back to yesterday and read it now. He was bitching about not being able to come in or pushing away ships of people trying to get into the USA. He was given understanding, and explanation and direction. You attacked.
I understand, Brenda, I didnt want you to be upset with Sunny, when there was a possibility that those might not have been his/her own thoughts, but those of another that he/she had pasted here. I believe Sunny was trying to prove a point on the topic at hand at the time.
"Nag!!!! Honestly. What in the world is left to discuss in this matter."
If you don't think there's anything left to discuss with me, then don't say anything to or about what I've posted. But if you do say something to or about me that I want to address, I will. Surely you don't take issue with that. And if you do, I'm sorry, but I'm not going to leave just because you don't like me being here expressing a viewpoint contrary to that of the "majority" and you think it's going "nowhere."
boogiemanhater
A good starting point about the "lies" of the Bush administration and UK government about how both my and your country became involved in Iraq
http://www.alternet.org/story/16274/
Well Nag, that is the difference between you and me. I am not a control freak. So fine, keep commenting on my posts, I'll keep ignoring you.
I just want to know, for right now, one thing. Were any people liberated by the USA and UK fighting overseas in any of the wars?
boogiemanhater
But you don't just keep ignoring the posts that you don't like, but you only reply to attack the poster, not to contribute anything substantial to the discussion
BoogieManHater, there is far too many comments since yesterday for me to go back and re-read all of the comments. I admit that there is a possibility that I missed something somewhere. But I do not see where I attacked anyone. And I am positive that the comments I made to you were made from comments that I did, in no way, misunderstand or miss any part of.
But Boogie, can you tell me if Sunny is indeed a male or female, since you refer to Sunny as him. Im assuming you are talking about Sunny, no? And how you confirmed that? Also, can you tell me if Sunny is living inside or outside of the USA, please.
Actually, I do believe that I will go back and read all of the statements from yesterday. Please save questions for me if you have them, as it is so difficult to catch up here and respond too. lol
I just want to know, for right now, one thing. Were any people liberated by the USA and UK fighting overseas in any of the wars?
Tara, you made me think about something. I absolutely LOVE your air traffic controllers. lol I seen them on youtube dancing. It was hilarious and very inventive. Have you seen the one guy that dances? He is adorably great. lol
TheBoogieManHater,
Start to research this link:
www.911truth.org
and this is only the beginning but these are from the families that have actually lost people husbands wives brother sisters loved ones in the twin towers that day and they are the ones that petitioned the government for an investigation into 9/11 in the first place they fight for answers they still want those answers its a great place to start out for research and answers, another great documentary in general is called 9/11 mysteries part the demolition. Watch that then you just get into more and more and more... but to understand it all I feel as a whole it doesnt even begin with 9/11 it begins when we sold our government and freedom to the FEDERAL RESERVE!!! and gave away our freedoms, and constitution to be run by the hand of a few greedy men...... Woodrow Wilson is a great president to research... Which was a very critical time in history....
Tara, please don't tell me what I can comment on and what I can ignore. When I ignore someone, and he continues to post crap at my comments, and I don't feel like ignorant answers anymore I will post at that time and any other time I feel like it. I haven't seen you post to every comment, so I suspect you post as you see fit as well. Get off your high horse already. You complain about the government taking over against what you wish, but you turn around and attempt to try to make others as you wish. Please. Grow up and stop acting so combative yourself.
"I just want to know, for right now, one thing. Were any people liberated by the USA and UK fighting overseas in any of the wars?"
I think you would need to ask an Iraqi or Afghanistan citizen that question
"Maybe the fact that I do know violent criminals, and their ways, their selfishness, and their sickness. Not to mention their ways, while having one of their "family" moments. But also, the things that brought them to these points, makes a big difference. Do you agree?"
Denise, I honestly don't see what difference it makes in terms of whether my views on the blameless sickness of criminals is correct and how we should try to feel and act if they are. Your experience would merely make you more cognizant of how difficult it is to actually feel and act the ways I urge about and around real criminals in real life.
Having said that, I don't mean to suggest that I've lived such a sheltered life that I've had no exposure to the ugliness in people. We're surrounded by it every day. The Phillip Garrido case is one example. The Annie Lee tragedy is another. There is violence and war and human criminality and ugliness all around us, and I am not oblivious to it by any means. And a dear friend of mine was a heroin addict, and I saw many of her addicted and criminal friends, family, and acquaintances up close and personal.
I know that the insights, attitudes, and actions I've been advocating are tremendously difficult to develop and manifest.
But that doesn't mean we shouldn't try.
TheBoogieManHater,
I made a typo the documentary is 9/11 mysteries part 1: the demolition...
here's another great link its interesting its a movie you can watch it online if you like documentaries:
http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com/
"Well Nag, that is the difference between you and me. I am not a control freak."
Good for you, Boogie.
I will read that Brendastar. I keep thinking about Sunny's comment. "the white man has acted on the principal...". I am white. I voted for a black president. I have a lot more faith in this man than any of our last three presidents. Obviously, to the world, if Obama is our president now, and the majority of population who voted is obviously white. Why are we judged as racial?
why must we always go backward, when we have obviously grown so much? It was not our generation, nor our views to do as our ancestors did. Why must we be punished by foreigners time and time again?
"I am white. I voted for a black president. I have a lot more faith in this man than any of our last three presidents."
You and I both.
"I have a lot more faith in this man than any of our last three presidents."
I think a considerably number of non-Americans around the world are thinking exactly the same
Actually Sunny, this question would do well to be answered by you as well. ?
Well, Nagarjuna, I feel that my experience as opposed to yours, makes me to know how criminals are. It also makes me to know that they do have an illness, but they also have evil intentions that they can control. They know right from wrong, they just choose to do wrong.
Well, some of them. My cousin that beats up Jesus, I do not think he is in control of any of his actions, but he is so out of it, that he has to be harmless. He would be a pathetic criminal. Even the kids would kick him in the shin and bully him if he tried to steal their milk money or anything else for that matter.
Nagarjuna, my family is very large there. If your addicted friend was from our Paradise, she might know my family. And also, if you know her friends, you might know them also. Anyone that is linked to drugs, knows my lunatic family members. Im almost sure of it.
If they do not know the lunatic side of my family. They will know the more organized criminal other side of my family. They are higher class. lol
TheBoogieManHater,
I think its wrong to judge anyone on race alone... Or to say all are the same and categorize people as if they are all the same..
“All blame is a waste of time. No matter how much fault you find with another, and regardless of how much you blame him, it will not change you. The only thing blame does is to keep the focus off you when you are looking for external reasons to explain your unhappiness or frustration. You may succeed in making another feel guilty about something by blaming him, but you won't succeed in changing whatever it is about you that is making you unhappy.~ Wayne Dyer."
There is another movie that is interesting too its called the "Obama Deception" What do you guys think about A unionized government? The N. American Union, Asian Union, ect.? Or what about RFID chips?
Okay that makes sense in some instances.... such as sunny's comments. But as far as any convicted or admitted rapist/pedophile would go as what this blog is about, I would have to say that is not altogether correct. I know when they hurt people, and I feel so strongly that they need to be removed from society permanently, I am not trying to hide anything within myself, unless you were referring to my family, loved ones and any other innocent person out there.
What, segregating races? Please give me that website also, as well as any info you have on who wrote it. I am watching 911 Mysteries Part 1 now.
"It also makes me to know that they do have an illness, but they also have evil intentions that they can control. They know right from wrong, they just choose to do wrong."
Denise, at the risk of being accused of "beating a dead horse," :-) I just have to respond to your comment. I respond by asking WHY they have "evil intentions" and WHY, if they "know right from wrong," they "choose" to do wrong. I can't command or force you to THINK Denise THINK! :-) but I hope you WILL think about it as deeply as you can. Why would someone who knows that something is terribly wrong and that he could be severely punished for doing it "freely" choose to go ahead and do it anyway?
"Why would someone who knows that something is terribly wrong and that he could be severely punished for doing it "freely" choose to go ahead and do it anyway?"
I have previously offered the reason of "rewards." The person gets a reward from their behavior.
Sunny, I don't know about the rest of these people, but I would like to hear why you make the statements you have. I don't know where you are, or who in this blog you know, if you know anyone at all, but to make statements like that shows a lot of anger. Why don't you find out from the people who live here if they feel the way as to what you are against in "America".
maybe I can start by telling you what I don't think you understand about America, or at least how it started. After the invasion of this country, the people were offered "Freedom". Freedom to make their own decisions and way in life. As long as they did not violate laws. Now those laws were initially placed to prevent bad acts against another man or woman, and there were many laws as time went along.
Back to Freedom. Freedom allowed change in perspective to each and every individual. We were allowed to speak out to say what we saw, and what we wanted to say. Your views seem to be views/perspective of what was handed down to you. Were you given Freedom to make your own decision? Were you allowed to see before you made your opinions? Or, were you just told that we were a wicked and that we would not even listen to you? Why do you just come in bashing us. What do you know about America, and please allow us to comment on that.
I think what sunny wrote were factual. And again, I have to say that according to sunnys previous words, compared to those in the American Facts words. There is a big difference, and I think they were copy and pasted. But they pertained to what we were speaking about at the moment.
Nagarjuna, I scrolled back (trying to understand sunny more better) and I found something you had asked to BoogieManHater. But I would like to comment on it.
"If someone were the innocent carrier of an incurable and virulent disease that has blamelessly infected and killed others but could be prevented from threatening anyone else if the carrier were humanely kept quarantined, are you saying that you'd want him to be put to death because you wouldn't want to spend the money required to allow him to live?"
Did this person go "shopping" for his or her victims. Find what they wanted, plan a better time, then return at a later and safer date to be sure they were successful in infecting others?
"I have previously offered the reason of "rewards." The person gets a reward from their behavior."
Yes, Goblinbee. But why did Garrido find his actions "rewarding"? Also, criminals are aware of the risks of getting caught, ostracized, and punished. Garrido got caught. He will now spend the rest of his life in circumstances that I don't think any of us would wish for ourselves. Why did he make the dangerous choices he did to receive "rewards" that the overwhelming majority of us would have found repulsive rather than rewarding?
Contrary to what Denise seemed to think, I'm not looking for a precise answer. I'm seeking to make plausible via something remotely approximating the Socratic method the notion that there are causes for this aberrent, illegal, and dangerous behavior that extend beyond the culpable control of the criminal.
I am not so sure it was just factual, this sounds kind of like an accusation, and as we discussed before, I think America has come a long way to show that they are not racists - not saying that there are not some racists out there, but it is certainly not the majority.
Sunny did write: Liberty means free-market capitalism, which rewards individual achievement and competence, not skin color, gender, or ethnicity.
So why the comment "not skin color, gender, or ethnicity"?
"WHY they have "evil intentions" and WHY, if they "know right from wrong," they "choose" to do wrong."
Are children that sneak candy or cookies from the cookie jar "sick?" They know right from wrong, and they wait for you to blink, and they snatch the cookie anyhow. Knowing it is wrong.
WHY? NAGARJUNA, WHY? But as my experience goes with kids also, I think the sneaky little brats should be locked up for life too. Just kidding.
Sunny said:
If you're a real American that is, an American Indian you're lucky to be alive. For whether he really believed it or not, the white man has acted on the principle that "The only good Indian is a dead one". This was certainly one of the foundation stones upon which the white European invaders of North America and their descendants established and built the republic of the U.S.A
I do not see where this proves that Sunny is not from the USA. And I believe if I google hard enough, I would be able to find this same passage in some history site or history essay online. Not from some racist.
Denise, once again, slow down and stop putting words into my mouth. I most certainly did not call Sunny a racist. Read.
sunny said:
The true antidote to racism is liberty. Liberty means having a limited, constitutional government devoted to the protection of individual rights rather than group claims. Liberty means free-market capitalism, which rewards individual achievement and competence, not skin color, gender, or ethnicity.
Again, I do not see the proof of sunnys non american citizenship here. And also, I do not see the racism, but simply another quote from perhaps an essay for government class this time.
Sunny did not say he was of any nationality, he just came in angry that our navy would not let the hasians or another group of ocean rafters (for better lack of term right now) into our country. I am more keen than this, I do note that in one place Sunny, did write "our" referring to this country yesterday, as if he was here, but angry that someone else he wanted here was not. The hit and run, has not allowed me to determine anything about Sunny, and therefore I asked.
sunny again:
"Americans, sadly, are now victims who have turned into perpetrators. Indeed, since September 2001, the war on terror has claimed more innocent victims than those terrorist attacks.War and occupation create innocent victims. We count the body bags of American soldiers; there have been more than 1200 in Iraq. The rest of the world also looks at the Iraqis who get killed daily. There have been 15 times more,Some were trying to kill our soldiers; far too many were totally innocent, including many women and children"
In this passage, the words WE and OUR have been represented to be the AMERICANS. And it also looks like something that sunny has pasted. And it seems that an American had written it.
Please explain to me the proof that firstly, sunny is not American. Secondly, that sunny is against the USA. And, finally, that sunny wrote these.
Sunny did not say he was of any nationality, he just came in angry that our navy would not let the hasians or another group of ocean rafters (for better lack of term right now) into our country(BoogieManHater)
Yes, I remember that comment. I also remember it was in response to my being angry that our govt was giving me and my fiance such a hard and long drawn out time to bring him here. If I find that comment, you will see that sunny had written OUR NAVY.......implying that sunny is american. But again, I am thinking that that was also copied and pasted, but not for sure.
"did write "our" referring to this country yesterday, as if he was here, but angry that someone else he wanted here was not."
Boogie, it was actually me that was angry that someone I wanted here was not here. It was never sunny. And Sunny did write OUR when referring to this country.
Im not trying to start arguments, nor am I attacking anyone in any way. I am trying to clarify what I see as a big misunderstanding. One that could be unjustly hurtful and harmful to sunny.
Here is your proof that Sunny wrote these: Blogger sunny said...
If you're a real American that is, an American Indian you're lucky to be alive. For whether he really believed it or not, the white man has acted on the principle that "The only good Indian is a dead one". This was certainly one of the foundation stones upon which the white European invaders of North America and their descendants established and built the republic of the U.S.A
September 19, 2009 3:21 PM
Blogger sunny said...
The true antidote to racism is liberty. Liberty means having a limited, constitutional government devoted to the protection of individual rights rather than group claims. Liberty means free-market capitalism, which rewards individual achievement and competence, not skin color, gender, or ethnicity.
September 19, 2009 3:23 PM
and I don't mean just that he copied and pasted them.
there is usually a reason
Boogie said: So why the comment "not skin color, gender, or ethnicity"?
Most likely because the rest of the passage pertained to RACISM.
There was a reason. And I am going to go back and scroll through the conversations that ALL OF US were having at the moment about countries. I believe Tara was speaking about UK and USA. But I know that sunny posted those for a valid reason contributing to the topic at hand.
My point exactly. Why racism? As proven by our current vote of President Obama, there is absolutely no call for that and there is some other reason for the hate comments.
No wonder there is no response by Sunny. Hit and run. Just like terrorism. Absolutely no call for it. At least not for what is in the hearts of most Americans!
"Liberty means free-market capitalism, which rewards individual achievement and competence, not skin color, gender, or ethnicity."
I know this is venturing pretty far afield from the focus of this blog, but as far as I'm concerned, "free-market capitalism" unrestrained by reasonable government controls and uncomplemented by government- provided services leads to the oppression of "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness" for the vast majority of us, and, rather than solely rewarding laudable "achievement," all too often rewards despicable greed, heartlessness, unfair advantage of the people already at the top, and lying, cheating, and conniving.
The idolization of "free market capitalism" and the demonization of government is one of the banes of our existence and is a major contributor to our current economic woes.
"Denise, once again, slow down and stop putting words into my mouth. I most certainly did not call Sunny a racist. Read."
I apologize. I wrote the wrong word. I was reading the word racist from sunnys posts, and got confused.
BoogieManHater, this is how it started on the topic of America and other countries. It was actually you and me DISCUSSING our differences on going to other countries and not allowing anyone to come here. Then I said something to the effect of:
"Americans think they are so special, and are entitled to anything on this Earth"
Then Tara said looking from the outside in, she thinks most UK Citizens would agree. Then Sunny wrote his/her copied and pasted (im almost 100% sure) posts.
We have not established if Sunny is male or female, or where Sunny lives or was born.
"Did this person go "shopping" for his or her victims. Find what they wanted, plan a better time, then return at a later and safer date to be sure they were successful in infecting others?" (Denise)
Good question, Denise. But first of all, let's just take my scenario as I originally presented it. Would you want THAT person executed in order to "save money"?
Now, borrowing from your scenario, Suppose, for the sake of discussion, that he did what you said but doctors explained that this deliberate behavior was caused by his disease and was not something he would have otherwise plotted and carried out. Would you want HIM to be executed?
I googled the phrase "Liberty means free-market capitalism, which rewards individual achievement and competence, not skin color, gender, or ethnicity."
And I found that it is a comment from Ron Paul. You can also google and see for yourself. I hardly think that our own Sunny is THE Rep. Ron Paul. But if Sunny is, then we will know his gender, and also that he is in fact, american.
Blogger TheBoogieManHater said...
Sunny, I agree, but as hard as it is to justify, sometimes, when there is not enough work for those who built this country to be what it is, and others come over and take work, offering lower wages.... reduces the chance for those that have worked so hard at it to survive.
If Mexico became part of the USA, it would be different.... the USA would be building up the old Mexico also.
September 17, 2009 3:00 PM
Delete
Blogger sunny said...
The freedom to travel and to settle where one wishes, in pursuit of political freedom or economic opportunity, is among the most basic of human rights, the boogiemanhater
September 17, 2009 3:03 PM
Tara said...
"The freedom to travel and to settle where one wishes, in pursuit of political freedom or economic opportunity, is among the most basic of human rights"
If that was exercised in the UK we would sink (lol)
September 17, 2009 3:40 PM
"Are children that sneak candy or cookies from the cookie jar "sick?" They know right from wrong, and they wait for you to blink, and they snatch the cookie anyhow. Knowing it is wrong." (Denise)
What they do isn't sick because it falls within a normal spectrum of human childhood behavior and does little or no harm to anyone. But when we move from surreptitiously snatching an occasional cookie from the cookie jar at home to snatching little girls off the street in broad daylight and sexually enslaving them for eighteen years in conditions of abject disarry and filth, THAT to me is sick.
Yes Nagarjuna. Because I will never believe that an illness goes so undetected to the point that it is not noticed until a heinous crime has been committed. And please do not forget that Garrido had just been examined in prison before being released on parole. :)
But you are making me think of my little brother. He was blind, and very short for his age. He had a terminal illness all of his life. He was visibly handicapped. He used to go to WalMart with his seeing eye dog alone, basically, but someone always was nearby in case he needed help. My kids father had shoplifted so much stuff one year, thousands of dollars worth. that my brother, God bless his soul, wanted to strike gold also, and in the same manner. So, being blind as he was, with a constant Walmart employee nearby, started stealing. lol We all laugh about it. And please do not ask me to figure out why he did that. lol It is just hilarious to me, and only God knows what made him do it. lol That is one of the happiest memories I have of my baby brother though.
"And I found that it is a comment from Ron Paul."
Fu*k Ron Paul and the ridiculous libertarian horse he stumbled and bumbled in on! :-)
Blogger sunny said...
The freedom to travel and to settle where one wishes, in pursuit of political freedom or economic opportunity, is among the most basic of human rights, the boogiemanhater
I do not see what Sunny said here that warrants that he/she hates the United States.
Ok, Nagarjuna, if the cookie snatching brats idea isnt good enough for you. Let me think of a new comparison.
And lol. I do not know anything about Ron Paul. I just googled. Im innocent.
Denise, I don't know what you're saying "Yes" to, but it darn sure doesn't sound like you're saying "Yes" to any of the hypotheticals I presented. :-) In my hypotheticals, the guys ARE sick, no question about it. And my question to you is, Would you want THOSE guys with medically certifiable certain sicknesses executed in order to save money?
Remember, Denise, we're not discussing whether these guys are really sick. We're granting, for the sake of our discussion, that they are and proceeding from there to consider the question of whether you'd be OK with their being executed.
denise said...
BoogieManHater, this is how it started on the topic of America and other countries. It was actually you and me DISCUSSING our differences on going to other countries and not allowing anyone to come here. Then I said something to the effect of:
"Americans think they are so special, and are entitled to anything on this Earth"
Then Tara said looking from the outside in, she thinks most UK Citizens would agree. Then Sunny wrote his/her copied and pasted (im almost 100% sure) posts.
____
Blogger sunny said...
The freedom to travel and to settle where one wishes, in pursuit of political freedom or economic opportunity, is among the most basic of human rights, the boogiemanhater
September 17, 2009 3:03 PM
Tara said...
"The freedom to travel and to settle where one wishes, in pursuit of political freedom or economic opportunity, is among the most basic of human rights"
If that was exercised in the UK we would sink (lol)
September 17, 2009 3:40 PM
Just one subject at at time, were were not talking about Sunny's comments today, you wrote what the subject yesterday was about, and I showed you what the subject yesterday was really all about. Tara did not say here that she thought Americans thought they were better, someone else twisted words to get that out somewhere else.... Here, Tara thought at least for her own country, to live by Sunny's moto, was going a little bit overboard as well.
It is neither here nor there Sunny, the fact is, if we can't afford to take care of our own citizens right now, what would that do to the people of this country if we let more in at this time. That is not to say that anyone who goes through legal channels cannot do this, but for various reasons, this day and age, it is harder.
Googled again and found the American Indian passage here in Wikiquote:
http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/United_States
"Tara did not say here that she thought Americans thought they were better, someone else twisted words to get that out somewhere else.... Here, Tara thought at least for her own country, to live by Sunny's moto, was going a little bit overboard as well."
What? Tara what? lol Nobody accused Tara of thinking Americans think they are better. She said UK Citizens would agree with my statement.
And I agree with you that people should not come here illegally. But, Boogie, you told ME that if I had any RIGHT to bring anyone here, he would be here. That is where you were wrong. Because I do have the right. And you kept accusing Sunny of wanting to bring his/her fiance here. Then later accused Sunny of wanting to come to the USA.
Boogie said: Just one subject at at time, were were not talking about Sunny's comments today
Actually, we were.
Nagarjuna said:"Denise, I don't know what you're saying "Yes" to, but it darn sure doesn't sound like you're saying "Yes" to any of the hypotheticals I presented. :-)
Huh? Thought you asked me out on a date or something, Nagarjuna. lol I will find what I said Yes to.
Denise, I quoted what you wrote at that very time and what I copied and pasted was a response to that. Not Sunny's comment of today:
Blogger sunny said...
If you're a real American that is, an American Indian you're lucky to be alive. For whether he really believed it or not, the white man has acted on the principle that "The only good Indian is a dead one". This was certainly one of the foundation stones upon which the white European invaders of North America and their descendants established and built the republic of the U.S.A
September 19, 2009 3:21 PM
Blogger sunny said...
The true antidote to racism is liberty. Liberty means having a limited, constitutional government devoted to the protection of individual rights rather than group claims. Liberty means free-market capitalism, which rewards individual achievement and competence, not skin color, gender, or ethnicity.
September 19, 2009 3:23 PM
This was not the issue I responded to and pointed out to you.
Nag:
Now, borrowing from your scenario, Suppose, for the sake of discussion, that he did what you said but doctors explained that this deliberate behavior was caused by his disease and was not something he would have otherwise plotted and carried out. Would you want HIM to be executed?
Denise:
Yes Nagarjuna. Because I will never believe that an illness goes so undetected to the point that it is not noticed until a heinous crime has been committed. And please do not forget that Garrido had just been examined in prison before being released on parole. :)
"What? Tara what? lol Nobody accused Tara of thinking Americans think they are better. She said UK Citizens would agree with my statement."
Thanks for clarifying that denise.
Boogiemanhater did appear to have misunderstood
Once again, these are you words Denise:
denise said...
BoogieManHater, this is how it started on the topic of America and other countries. It was actually you and me DISCUSSING our differences on going to other countries and not allowing anyone to come here. Then I said something to the effect of:
*****"""""""Americans think they are so special, and are entitled to anything on this Earth"
Then Tara said looking from the outside in, she thinks most UK Citizens would agree. Then Sunny wrote his/her copied and pasted (im almost 100% sure) posts."""""
We have not established if Sunny is male or female, or where Sunny lives or was born.
September 19, 2009 6:45 PM
BoogieManHater, look. You have got me completely confused now. I do not even remember what our discussion was about, except for the fact that Sunny did not write these from his/her own words. It has never been established if Sunny is American or not. And I would like to know if Sunny is male or female. Just to avoid confusion.
Also, I do not even know your gender, for that matter. May I, please?
Denise:
Read these words. If I was wrong, that you do not have a right to bring your boyfriend here. Then why is he not here?
What does that mean to you. Is it an accusation. A diss, what? or, is it a fact?
The truth is, all any of us can do (in a legal fashion) is go through the motion of the proper applications. It is not any of our right to just say, I am a citizen, I want to bring this person into this country and have it so.
You are welcome, Tara. And I apologize for using you to be our token zombie today. But I figured that you are so sweet, that it would be easier to have compassion and hurt when we seen you foaming at the mouth. As opposed to (you know who) wink. LOL :) Just kidding.
denise
I must admit a very horrified expression appeared on my face when I read Tara zombie.
It did turn to a grin when it later became apparent what you were trying to illustrate
Denise, I've put my hypothetical question to you twice and explained it very carefully, and you still haven't answered THE QUESTION I PUT TO YOU.
Again, IF THESE GUYS WERE SICK, WOULD YOU WANT THEM EXECUTED. I'm not asking whether you think they are sick. I'm asking you to grant for the sake of our discussion that they are and then answer my question forthrightly.
Actually, I've put the question to you 2 1/2 times. :-)
My fiance is not here, not because I do not have a right. I have met all of the requirements of the immigration rules. I am a US Citizen. I have sufficient income. My children do not receive any type of government aid.
He was never DENIED his visa, BoogieManHater. We actually decided that it was taking too long, and it was draining us financially. We can continue the process, at any time. And he WILL get his visa. But we have decided that we are tired of waiting. And we will be happily together (or not, for sake of argument) sooner than waiting. It has been 5 strenuous years, and my sons and I need him right now.
My comment to you was directed at you falsely saying that I had NO RIGHT to bring him here (or he would be here already) when it was not a fact. And you knew nothing of our case. :) I hope you now understand. :) peace
We are going out for dinner and a show. I don't have time to explain this. If you care to know what really happened and the misunderstanding of yesterday, and who really said what, it is within the pages 4 and 5 back. Goodnight
Actually, it's now 3 1/2. :-)
"Again, IF THESE GUYS WERE SICK, WOULD YOU WANT THEM EXECUTED. I'm not asking whether you think they are sick. I'm asking you to grant for the sake of our discussion that they are and then answer my question forthrightly"
Nagarjuna, Is this not the correct answer that you seek, or what? I think I answered it. (twice)
denise said...
Nag:
Now, borrowing from your scenario, Suppose, for the sake of discussion, that he did what you said but doctors explained that this deliberate behavior was caused by his disease and was not something he would have otherwise plotted and carried out. Would you want HIM to be executed?
Denise:
Yes Nagarjuna. Because I will never believe that an illness goes so undetected to the point that it is not noticed until a heinous crime has been committed. And please do not forget that Garrido had just been examined in prison before being released on parole. :)
September 19, 2009 7:26 PM
Was that NOT the question? That was my answer, I believe.
To Nagarjuna:
Yes Nagarjuna. Because I will never believe that an illness goes so undetected to the point that it is not noticed until a heinous crime has been committed.
BoogieManHater, bon apetit. Enjoy your night. God bless you and stay safe. :)
Oh dear, nag's shouting !
Tara, do you understand my question to Denise? Is she answering it? If not, do you think I haven't worded it clearly enough? I've taken a few deep breaths, recited my mantram, and managed to calm down. :-) But I really wish I knew what's going on here. :-)
nagarguna
It appears to me that denise answered you a few posts back.
Shouting and demanding an answer will get you nowhere.
Well it certainly wouldn't if it was aimed at me.
Nagarjuna, lol. What? I am a little hard of hearing and my eyesight is going.
YES, YES, YES, YES, YES, YES, YES, YES, YES, YES, YES, YES, YES, YES,
there. :) My answer.
Tare, I apologize to you and Denise for "shouting." But I don't see where she answered me. I've asked her repeatedly if she wanted these guys to be executed even if, "for the sake of discussion, she knew they were sick, and she keeps saying they couldn't be sick. Yes, that is an answer, but not to the particular question I've asked her.
nagarjuna
Is it that important that you get an exact answer ?
I have asked numerous questions on here of different people and a lot haven't been answered.
Denise, once again, let us pretend that the guys in my hypotheticals are sick through no fault of their own and that they've seriously or even fatally infected others through no fault of their own. They did not freely choose to infect anyone. Their sickness made them do it. You may not think this is a plausible scenario, but let's just pretend for right now that it is.
But if these guys are quarantined for life, they can't endanger and infect anyone else. However, if we quarantine them, it will cost money that could be spent elsewhere. Would you want these guys executed even if we pretend, for the sake of this discussion, they they were absolutely not at fault for infecting anyone?
NO.
Tara--
Yes, I'd like to receive an answer to the precise question I asked so that I can understand better the position of the person of whom I asked it. I'm not trying to understand her position so that I can attack it. If she says, yes, I'd want this incurably sick person executed in order to save money even though he bore no responsibility for his sickness and the impact it's had on others, that would be the end of it. If she said, no, I wouldn't want that because this person really is innocent, then I'd understand that she wants people like Garrido executed because she thinks that even if they are sick, they're not sick enough to be free of all blame for their crimes, and, therefore, they're executable.
But I'd like to ask you something. You seem to be fed up with me or pissed off with me or whatever it is that you are, but if you would be so kind as to answer me anyway before I take my leave for the night: Do you believe that Denise answered whether she would be in favor of executing people she conceded, for the sake of discussion, were sick enough to infect others without bearing any personal responsibility for it?
That was not fair, Nagarjuna. Because I did not get to give my "it depends" answer. There are, of course, different circumstances that warrant different punishments and treatments. Like my brother, for example. It would be wrong to put him in jail, because his mind was childlike. And his disabilities were visible, and he was treated accordingly. With much supervision.
If someone accidentally sneezes on you in the seat next to you, and you get sick. Of course you do not execute them. Nor do you quarantine them for life. Well, I guess if their illness is deadly. I am sure the hospitals would keep them housed while they studied them. NIH in Bethesda, MD would definitely.
Denise, thank you for answering my question. So, I take it that you're not for executing people who can't help being dangerously sick and endangering others with that sickness if they can be safely quarantined, but you ARE for executing people who commit crimes that you think they could have refrained from committing no matter how sick they are.
So this seems to boil down to our difference being over whether people like Garrido are really THAT sick.
Thank you, Denise, for the clarification. :-)
If she says, yes, I'd want this incurably sick person executed in order to save money even though he bore no responsibility for his sickness and the impact it's had on others, that would be the end of it. If she said, no, I wouldn't want that because this person really is innocent,
But Nagarjuna, you did not permit me to say YES, BLAH BLAH or NO, BECAUSE YADA YADA.
I tried to do that 5 times. And you went ballistic. You demanded a YES or NO answer only.
"But Nagarjuna, you did not permit me to say YES, BLAH BLAH or NO, BECAUSE YADA YADA.
I tried to do that 5 times. And you went ballistic. You demanded a YES or NO answer only."
Denise [sigh], I asked for a yes or no answer to my hypothetical, and you kept changing the hypothetical before you answered it. I kept saying, "If we grant, for the sake of our discussion, that they are inculpably sick and dangerous, would you want them executed, and you kept replying that they couldn't be sick enough to be blameless. Maybe in real life, they couldn't be, although that's debatable. But in my hypothetical, they were, and I was asking you to address THAT hypothetical and not comment on how plausible you thought it was.
Denise, I think you're a nice person, and I guess I'm just a crazy asshole who needs to shut the fu*k up. I had hoped we could be Internet friends, but it looks like I've blown that out of the water.
Take care Denise, and everyone else, and please forgive my foolishness.
Look, Nagarjuna, we have turned a blog into a chatroom. And I did not come here venting outrage and hatred. All of my feelings about executing criminals during the time of this blog, mainly if not only, pertain to Garrido and the man that killed my sons mother.
No matter what I want for Garrido, or what you want for Garrido, it is not going to make a difference. Unless you are called for jury duty, which is possible, your and my wishes are not going to determine his fate anyhow.
I know that Garrido is a sick and twisted monster that destroyed the lives of at least one family. And there is no mistake about it. And I also know that Percy Johnson killed my babys mama. Pure fact.
For those unmistakeable facts, there is no doubt in my mind, that they should be executed, and I shouldnt have to pay for their luxurious deadbeat lives behind bars.
They also were both out on parole at the time they struck their next victims. So if you cannot see how I think they should be executed, I am sorry.
Denise (sigh), without even having gone through what you have, I've said many times that I'm not necessarily opposed to execution in the cases you cited. Our difference of opinion really doesn't seem to be all that wide. But we do seem at times to have a real communication problem, and I a problem dealing with that problem. That's not your fault. It's mine.
Again, thank you for patiently hanging in there with me and clafifying your position.
Goodnight, Denise
One size does not fit all.
There are circumstances to be considered in every decision we have to deal with. Zero tolerance in my sons' school is ridiculous. Since sagging is a sign of gang style. A straight A honor roll student that is on the Peer Mediation Team, been invited to Duke University for the Math Program in the 7th grade, is in Honors Algebra and the football team, Answers respectfully with a Yes, Sir/Ma'am No, Sir/Ma'am, gets detention time after time, because his mother cannot afford to buy him new jeans that will fit him snugly. And his body shape is difficult to make a pair of jeans fit tight anyhow.
Is that fair? Are there any hypothetical scenarios and questions to make this understandable? Please, Nagarjuna, dissect and evaluate this one for me, so I can understand.
There are always different treatments for different circumstances, Nagarjuna. And I do not agree that sickness is a valid excuse for forgiveness. Plain and simple.
My cousin has a sickness. It is called brain damage from drug abuse. If she beats a little old lady in the face till the woman is unrecognizable, to steal the womans purse. MY GOD, SHE NEEDS TO BE EXECUTED. Plain and simple.
If you sneeze on me and I get typhoid fever. That is different. If you run around with known HIV and have sex with me. GROUNDS FOR EXECUTION. Its simple.
not even jason bourne would be able to protect garrido in prison.
he will need to be in permanent admin seg (administrative segregation) or in the hole (SHU - special housing unit), in order to stop him being attacked or murdered
Goodnight, Nagarjuna. It will all be better in the morning. I think mine and your conversations are great, btw. Im sorry if I make you crazy. God knows you make me crazy sometimes too. But I always come back for more. Much love, God bless you and take care.
Good night, Tara and everyone.
GOD BLESS YOU ALL.
TheBoogieManHater,
What do you think of 9/11 mysteries????
"My cousin has a sickness. It is called brain damage from drug abuse. If she beats a little old lady in the face till the woman is unrecognizable, to steal the womans purse. MY GOD, SHE NEEDS TO BE EXECUTED. Plain and simple."
Hi Denise. My wife is at a party and I'm still waiting for her to call me to pick her up. So, I popped in here before she calls, and I saw your comment. I'm feeling calm and benevolent now. :-) So, let me address your point.
If your cousin damaged his brain from drug abuse, I think you already know I'd say that if you examined his drug abuse closely enough, you'd discover that something caused it that you can't fairly blame him for. Yes, he chose to abuse drugs to the point where it ruined his brain. But why did he make this choice? Well, you might say, he did it because he liked it. Well, why did he like it so much? He liked it so much because it made him feel really, really good, and he all he selfishly cared about was feeling really, really good. Well, why was that all he cared about when it isn't all that most of us care ahout? Because he chose to care about it so much. Well, why did he choose to care about it so much? Because that's how selfish he was. Well, why was he so selfish?
I guess you get the picture of how I look at these matters. I think that if we examine why a person commits a terrible crime and keep asking why as we go further and further into it, we discover that there ends up being a cause for his actions that he didn't choose or control. It chose or controlled him.
But I don't doubt for one moment, Denise, that you just aren't buying this. I doubt that you really even understand what I'm saying, not because you're stupid or anything like that, but just because the viewpoint I'm expressing is so alien to the way most of us see the world. We just can't wrap our minds around this determinism stuff.
So, let me ask you another question, Denise. Suppose it wasn't drug abuse that caused your cousin to smash the poor old lady's face in but brain damage caused by a construction accident at work. A steel pipe went through his brain and wiped out the part of his brain that keeps him from flying into violent rages and hurting people. Suppose your poor cousin didn't know he had this problem and he was out walking down the street one day and the old lady bumped into him by mistake, and he flew off the handle and beat her face in and killed her. Do you think he should be executed under THOSE circumstances?
"If you sneeze on me and I get typhoid fever. That is different. If you run around with known HIV and have sex with me. GROUNDS FOR EXECUTION. Its simple."
What if a guy with HIV infects someone because he didn't tell her he had it, but the reason he didn't tell her was because the HIV damaged his brain and made him forget that he had HIV. He used to know he had it, but the disease caused him to forget. Do you think HE should be executed?
BrendaStar: I am intrigued, somewhat shocked, but need to watch it again and study this quite a bit more before I am convinced. Why I never knew anything about this before is beyond me. How is it that this is missed in the news and not blown wide open? I just have to figure these things out before I can comprehend that this could happen.
TheBoogieManHaterm
You sound just like me when I first watched that movie, I researched almost every single thing after that then it brought me to more moviies and more movies The multan Metal is where I started becuase it was too intriging as well as factual for me to ignore. I am really glad you watched it.. The media does kind of talk about it except they call the 9/11 truth campaign a conspiracy theory but that is why the 9/11 truth.org was also made was because these are all the people that commissioned the government for an investigation into this. They are all the families that have lost someone in the trade centers that day. The people in New York are aware of these things..."loose change" is another recent documentary that was pretty good, but I have today that 9/11 mysteries was one of the most factual and best documentary's I have seen on the world trade centers collapse including the mysterious crumble of building # 7 out of nowhere, which held all of Enron scandal files that were burned to the ground. But I am really glad you even checked it out thank you for that. Let me know if you feel so inclined to if anything sparks your interest about the subject.
Nagarjuna, you really HAVENT been around drug addicts much in your life, have you.
You said"Suppose it wasn't drug abuse that caused your cousin to smash the poor old lady's face in but brain damage caused by a construction accident at work."
For one thing, brain damaged people from accidents rarely go around committing crimes. And brain damage from a contruction accidesnt is SO SO DIFFERENT that the damages to ones brain from drug abuse.
I can say this though. My cousin struggles each and every day to quit doing drugs. She loses her kids and has to fight the child services. She keeps having babies, and each new baby is a "prince or princess" that deserves the best in life. And she vows to quit for them. Fails every time. Maybe she is the one you should be asking a bazillion questions to. It would be interesting to know if you really could help her, or if you could survive over there. lol I mean if you are going to help her, it would have to be in her environment. Im not asking you to help her. Im just curious how she would answer your questions.
molten medal 9/11 link that is interesting
http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/evidence/moltensteel.html
TheBoogieManHater,
Another group in general to research in the "Bilderberg group." I dont know if you have ever heard of them but that in itself is mind boggling.....
Nagarjuna: "What if a guy with HIV infects someone because he didn't tell her he had it, but the reason he didn't tell her was because the HIV damaged his brain and made him forget that he had HIV."
That doesnt really happen this way. But if it did, I guess we would still prosecute him the same, because I wouldnt believe that he had forgotten he had it. And then every new criminal suspect would use that excuse "i forgot" as their alibi.
BrendaStar: The Molten Metal is one of the biggest points that actually grabbed my attention as well. I mean so far it is the most viable piece of information to go on. Another disturbing fact to me is Silverstein’s insurance policy. I find it quite disturbing that he had in advance covered these two buildings for torrorism which was worded so closely as to how this ultimately happened. I also find it selfishly Garrido like to hear his statements after winning his multibillion dollar award from his insurance claim lawsuit… I thought about all the victims, but I think we need to rebuild. Meaning what Mr. Silverstein, you do not feel it appropriate to give any of that money to those who now suffer so much. Where was Mr. Silverstein when his buildings were attacked? I have a thousand questions still. Did he have an office in one of those buildings? I mean it sounds plausible that he would.
Some of it does not sound to credible to me, but other credible factors such as William Rodriquez’ witness of explosions on the lower floors sounds credible as he remembered it. Most certainly the firefighters reports of explosions in and around the lower floors truly sounds credible.
I am still questioning what it would sound like as the floors buckle, like Timothy Buckles recount, “I heard like an explosion and then a cracking type of noise”. I am still studying this and questioning these statements about the squibs also. While they are comparing the squips to what happens when they purposely implode buildings, and that these squibs do happen, I can’t discount that these squibs would also occur when a floor above buckles and drops. Although I have personally witnessed 4 implosions in Las Vegas and I have not seen squips project as far as these show, but that could be due to how the beams were cut professionally to fall inward, rather than straight across like these were (showing molten metal!).
I always jump the gun when I start seeing dishonesty and coverup. What is the ultimate purpose of hiding all this? So I have to ask for time sake here. Once I get through some of this, what are these facts and documentaries going to lead me to. What are the beliefs of others as to why this happened and then covered up? I like to read the end of the book before I start, I like to know where I am heading, so I don’t have to reread again to confirm the facts leading to the truth. Do you know what the result of this information is? Thanks for bringing all this to my attention.
BrendaStar, I watched so many different videos on the 9/11 incidents about 2 years ago. I also watched all the proofs that they show that the buildings came down in a well controlled manner. I also seen a documentary showing how, even if the metal structures were weakened, and caused I think they called it the pancake effect, where all the buildings just dropped floor by floor, the CORE of the building would still remain. It is mind boggling.
It is interesting to know that our government might think they can easily cause this disaster, and all of our people will be stupid sheep and just believe them. It is also amazing to me that, of all the facts, nothing has been proven enough to convict anyone (Bush) of these crimes.
BoogieManHater: " I find it quite disturbing that he had in advance covered these two buildings for torrorism which was worded so closely as to how this ultimately happened"
My rental house is covered for terrorism, actually.
It is not covered for the 2 month ice storm we had at the beginning of this year, that left our entire city, every home and every business in the city alike, without electricity for 2 weeks. And destroyed every tree and telephone and power pole and lines in town. But I am covered for terrorist acts, or if a plane lands in the living room, or if a Tyrannasaurus Rex steps on it, or aliens invade Earth, I guess. pfft.
Not getting through much of this yet, it is stuck in my mind, to have it implode the way that is only hinted at from what I saw thus far, the question has struck me, was this building pre-wired. Are buildings pre-wired to implode. I cannot imagine terrorists getting away with doing this. I mean this would take quite a bit of time to do and to keep it a secret... it just sounds to impossible to believe that this is what happened, so I wonder.
TheBoogieManHater,
I know there is so much here and its a lot of information to digest as well as dechpyer through.....Mr. Rodriguez is a part of 9/11 truth campaign now as well, as many others..After getting into Molten Medal I started to research building burning and how steel burns itself and what kind of heat it takes to actually make steel melt.. The fact i read based alone on that were heart wrenching to me because at that time it was almost utterly undeniable for me that there was something else going on...i fully respect your need for time to digest this information as i sought about a week straight of internet fact searching and solitude after starting this research. I can appreciate that very much. I am so glad you took the time to even watch it. I think everyone in the world should watch this movie. I too find Mr. Silverstein's involvement and that insurance policy sickening. I think in order to understand all of this just like you said we need to know where it starts and how we want it to end and so fourth. I can tell you from what i have learned now and this has been five years of researching all of this stuff and watching countless documentray's as well as reading subject after subject and books after books and many sleepless nights of research it started years and years ago and it is for a greater purpose to benifit a group of very wealthy men. The bilderberg group is a part of making decisions for world government now these are not all politicians but government officicals as well as BANKERS who meet and make decisions about our world government without any say of any citizen anywhere. This is the truth. This economy crash and all of these things the H1N1 virus ect. this all has a purpose in the end. Have you ever heard of a New World Government? or also known as New World Order. Which in plain english equates to the Bilderberg Group. These are all things to look into.
I seen a video of what I believe was the actual designer of the buildings. He was talking about how they designed the building to hold up against an airplane impact, but they neglected to account for all of the fuel.
I just do not see why BOTH towers would go down in the same manner. I can see if one did, but BOTH?
I also heard a theory that the buildings were getting old and in need of major repairs. It was going to cost too much to repair them, and they used them as an excuse to start a war. But why would they also send planes to other parts of the country also.
What do you guys know about the other planes, that hit the pentagon and Im not sure, but there was one somewhere else also? I never hear much about those planes.
TheBoogieManHater,
I think one of the most relevant testimony's of that movie also was of security and who is in control of the computer system. He talks about how he was given an order to shut all the power down which was a big issue because it left the world trade centers with no security system and that they had never been asked to such a thing ever and they did and it was one week prior to 9/11 occurring or the testimony's of countless people that came to work for that entire week and had to literally clean off building residue from their office desk chairs and work because some "construction" was going on in the WTC a week prior to the 9/11 attacks there was so much there that i cold not get over that too. That security guy too was fired after that documentary. re watch that segment.
Boogie" I cannot imagine terrorists getting away with doing this"
I always think that Yes, maybe 2, 3 or 4 airplanes get highjacked, and start going off course. By the time they were detected, we would have begun to take action. Maybe 1 would have got past, but the others would have been stopped.
The way I see all of this happening, it seems that nobody in our government even knew what was happening until the final impacts. I could be wrong.
Wow, BrendaStar, I did not even know about the power being shut down, or all of the residue the week before. Or that the security guy was fired.
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